The Storm Pandora Thread
Jul 18, 2007 at 1:21 AM Post #61 of 174
Ken, feel free to post in this thread...no restrictions at all on posting, so no one should mind.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251058

Hugz, you're baffling. The community waits to hear from Ken for a year, he finally posts, and you're concerned more about impressions on a piece of gear then the seller commenting on a huge controversy that has thousands of dollars hung up. That's-at a minimum-a sad commentary on priorities.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 2:36 AM Post #63 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ken, feel free to post in this thread...no restrictions at all on posting, so no one should mind.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251058

Hugz, you're baffling. The community waits to hear from Ken for a year, he finally posts, and you're concerned more about impressions on a piece of gear then the seller commenting on a huge controversy that has thousands of dollars hung up. That's-at a minimum-a sad commentary on priorities.



It's pretty clear that hugz was merely attempting to keep his thread on topic. If he's asking this of members, it would be a serious double standard not to also request this of Ken. It's not a sad commentary on anything. Do you remember when you were so insistent that people not post "advertising" to the Action Against Storm thread because it wasn't on topic? Honestly dude, it seems like you are the master of the double standard. This thread has a topic and it has a disclaimer regarding issues everyone should be aware of. Criticizing the OP for wanting the thread he started to stay on topic is just plain stupid. Hugz is putting time and effort into listening to the Pandora and sharing his impressions. He has every right to request that his efforts not be derailed by posts that could easily be placed somewhere else. Failing to respect that shows some serious lack of restraint.

n_maher already posted some clearly expressed, valid thoughts on the issues you're trying somewhat ineloquently to raise once again. I really have no problem with a discussion of that nature. It just belongs in another thread, which thankfully you seem to half-appreciate. Your post with a link to the thread you started is kind of admirable, and I respect that.

Posts I do think belong here are Towert7's. If he's noticing more build quality issues, I think that's a serious problem and I think it has everything to do with this thread. I genuinely appreciate him staying on top of that. I have talked with Ken and I truly want the best for everyone involved, including him. I can't really affect how he chooses to do things, but I will continue to hope that he delivers, and that what he delivers not only sounds great but is reliable as well.

I would suggest to you that you give up the witch-hunt, Ken-is-an-evil-criminal mentality. If you step over the bounds of the knowable once again I'm going to post in your thread and you're probably not going to appreciate what I have to say. Whether you like it or not some of us are still in the midst of doing business with Ken, and I have no intention of sitting idly by while you attempt to destroy him with insane, over-the-top accusations. It gets us nowhere. If you want to raise questions and discuss things reasonably, well, I'll probably just go back to my corner where I'll continue to wait and see.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 2:51 AM Post #64 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by storm-digital /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hi Tower7 an n_maher:
i'm Ken Law of storm audio
i'm keep longtime silence here.let me say something here!

1./i'm not stole anyone money!

2./every electronic product will have it's defect,i dont have experience to ship to north America,many DAC battery has fallen after ship,the fixture is not able to fix it.and i still dont have any idea how the DAC parts fallen down.some of customer still using it without any problem.mostly fall part is the battery.please make it clear before you post about the defect.also,because of too much non-involved people post here. no one contact me about the defect of their D02. how did i know??

3./i'm not interest you recommand the DAC to people on this forum or not,but i think you should understand all the situation before you say anything here!

4./you're telling ONE SIDE STORY to everyone here. i dont want any argument.just want to understand something,am i hurt you or anyone else because my business practice?


here is some words first show on the public.

I'm just want to make my customer happy with my design,the story shown here seems i'm deliberately rip people money,and make the DAC with defects to ship people.D02 is my very first product,it should have some production problem. i dont think Boeing make a plane without any problem. some of my customer already have their free replacement ,do you know about it?if you happy to promote HOW BAD IS STORM AUDIO.please do it fair!!



personally you have NO credibility here at all... I can not remotelyu understand why anyone hugz or ricewind would even consider talking to you or promote your products until you have made good. I for one would not care if your DAC sounded like angels licking my ears I would never and urge all members of the board not to give this guy or his company one dime until all outstanding orders are fullfilled.
Ken making people happy is pretty easy make a quality product and then deliver on your promise of delivering after they have paid you. So far you are deliquent in both areas. I really hate to see fellow headfiers get sucked in a second time.
Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Superpredator I am just curious how is this a witch hunt when he went missing for a year then has ttime to R&D a new product ship samples to shops while others twist in the wind?
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 3:32 AM Post #65 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Superpredator I am just curious how is this a witch hunt when he went missing for a year then has ttime to R&D a new product ship samples to shops while others twist in the wind?


If you think it's worthwhile to continue engaging in discussions on how Ken is a criminal or negligent businessman, be my guest. If you truly think it adds to the dialog somehow or helps members waiting on a product or refund achieve that goal, please do it. As one of these members, let me make it very clear: you are not helping me and you are not speaking for me.

I don't represent Ken and I don't defend him. I just wait, because in my view we have moved from point A to point B. Rehashing point A seems to be a pastime for people whose interest here is in talk. I don't want to talk. I want my DAC, and I want it to work.

The witch hunt is the ongoing pursuit and pointless attack of someone who has already been found, and essentially found guilty of extremely poor business practices, whatever the reasons. Everyone involved has a general idea of what's going on, but no one knows anything for sure. That's where we are. If you want to be somewhere where we're not, count me out.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 4:36 AM Post #66 of 174
Superpredator,
Well said.
Lets move on and see what happens next.
The ball is in Ken's court.
By the way. From wikipedia;
"Pandora's "Box" has become a metaphor for the unanticipated and irreversible consequences of decisions"
seems to fit the situation doesn't it.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 12:36 PM Post #67 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Superpredator I am just curious how is this a witch hunt when he went missing for a year then has ttime to R&D a new product ship samples to shops while others twist in the wind?


I'm generally trying to stay out of the whole Storm saga now that my situation has been reasonably resolved. I think everyone knows my feelings towards Ken and the situation. The Pandora does look like a very nice product that will garner a lot of attention but what makes a truly outstanding product is when it's backed by great customer service and reliability. The problem here is the Pandora is backed by neither, everyone I know that had a D02 had an issue of one sort or another and of course customer service has been severely lacking to non-existent. There have been a lot of empty promises and a lot of empty wallets up to this point. So in my view posting a thread in regards to a product, especially a product with the kind of stigma the Pandora has attached to it, and only allowing sonic impressions really isn't telling the whole story of the product. There seems to be an awful lot of impressionable and/or naive members on here who may not do the proper amount of research and base their decision solely on a thread like this. Personally I'd like to see people hold off on these threads that lean towards promotion until after everyone who has had a problem has come to a resolution with Ken but I can't control what others do, only hope that there are proper warnings posted so if people decide to buy they at least know what they're getting into beforehand. If Ken can resolve the issues of reliability and customer service then all the power to him but it will be a long road and based on his previous behavior he will have to bend over backwards to make sure everyone that buys product from him is happy.

So with that out of the way and people don't think I'm defending Ken in any way, for the sake of clarity I'd like to note that from my understanding Ken isn't shipping "samples" to shops as suggested above, it was an outstanding order from Coem that was placed before most if not all of the other personal orders. I was told this by a third party so it may or may not be true but that's my understanding of why Coem received a couple of Pandora's before anyone else.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 2:09 PM Post #69 of 174
Well said elnero. And given the 'known' facts, yes, some of what is said on are perfectly understandable conclustions/opinions. But, knowing what's really going on, it's amazing seeing what has been said thus far.

Some facts. Note, these are neither FOR or AGAINST Storm, just some plain simple facts.

1) The soldering: I asked Ken. He says the PCBs have circuit paths that are THROUGH the plastic board (called Plated-Through-Hole (PTH)). So joins can be made on either/both sides of the board. As such, you may see solder on one side, but it may not be very apparent on the other. Here is an example of such a PCB:

http://www.poonzub.com/shopping/admi...2548133457.gif

Just to avoid this question being raised again, I've suggested to Ken that he solder so that it not only (already) IS a good join, but so that it also LOOKS like a good join to those who don't know about PTH and might jump to conclusions on cursory inspection.

2) Packaging of the outstanding DAC orders has been arranged by a chosen date (obviously between now and the release date published on the Storm site). This is NOT speculation, it is fact. Ken bounced some ideas off me RE packing methods, but he seemed to know exactly what he wanted in the first place (and it should be very good). I've probably still got the links for the companies he was considering in my history.

3) I was ALSO against the Pandora impressions thread, reason being it would only fan flames and put more pressure on Ken when he was/is so close to shipping anyway. No point really. In case anyone is wondering why Hugz hasn't posted at all the past few days, it's because he's moving house. Not sure when he'll be done.

4) Yes, the COEM AU DACs were D02 orders, and occured well before the Head-Fi orders discussed on here. The reason Hugz currently has the DAC is because Ken decided to do a last minute upgrade: Hugz found that he has about 245V on his AC outlet, standard AC in Australia is about 240V. While the DAC works/ed perfectly fine at 240V when Ken tested, he wasn't quite 100% happy with it at 245V, apparently there is a MINISCULE mechanical hum from the transformer, which Ken decided might bother some people. Which is surprising because they were a very decent brand. So he is shipping COEM AU replacement transformers for the 2 DACs (a simple swap). They cost 3x what the original transformers cost (!) and apparently run dead silent. Ken paid 200USD just to have 30 of these new transformers shipped priority from the US to Hong Kong! Have any of you ever paid that much shipping for anything? Even my Audionote DAC only cost 150USD from US to Australia and that was SLOOOOW (plus after a month or so delay waiting for parts already). I've actually never seen a package move as fast as these transformers in all my years buying overseas lol.

See, while some of us are piddling against a wall and posting threads to try and force ppl into action (esp those not involved), others are dealing with their own problems. Granted, Ken went out on the market too early with the D02. He KNOWS this, and this is part of why the big delay - to rectify the problems. He said this in one of his posts. Also that he was over optimistic RE dates. He knows a year is too long, and from discussions with him, it's obvious he won't be doing the same ever again.

Anyway, the two Australian Pandoras are being held a few more days for this little upgrade/cherry on top. All the Pandoras to hit the states will be shipped with the final transformers inside. There will also be a very minor change to the case cover which, although minor, also provides benefits. Again, all the DACs hitting the states will have this upon receipt.

Things are on schedule for the ship/release date on Storm's site.

While this isn't a fact, I think it's an interesting point: WRT Eddy Wu rocking up to some shopfront and noone knowing who Ken is - Eddy sells products that compete with Storm, what incentive would he have to put any effort into finding Ken? Ken says he's never been visited by Eddy, and he has only moved work location once in the past year (after he was apparently visit by Mr Wu). The police found Ken easily enough, shouldn't have been hard for Eddy. But again, I was not there, and noone else here was either, so this little part is kind of moot, just worth mulling over IMO.

Right now, the situation really IS just a matter of waiting 10 days and then watching your tracking number(s). Oh, and the 28th of July (the site on the Storm site) actually falls on a Saturday in Hong Kong, and there are time differences between HK and the US. So for god's sake, don't lose your heads if you don't wake up on the 28th and don't see a tracking number in your inbox. Give him 24-48 hours lee way, we are talking international trading/shipping after all. Just remember, sometimes when you order something and get a tracking number, you actually receive the package before the tracking site is even up to date. I've received stuff before the tracking number was even recognized on the tracking site.

BTW, I'll get shirty if anyone PMs me asking for more information because I've posted ALL the FACTS I know for sure at this point in time. I know that phrase has been said on this (and other) threads before, but I think it's justified here because so far this is one of the only posts with real and useful information regarding the current state of the Pandoras. Ken has also partly assembled 30 more Pandoras. I believe the only indication of how long it takes Storm to make and ship them will be demonstrated by how quickly this NEXT batch ships. You can't count design/prototype time as 'lead-in' time for any project, Ken's only been building this bunch of Pandoras the past 4 weeks or so (as evidenced by the sudden appearance of pictures and information).

As far as Ken is concerned, he believes/hopes that those who waited will be happy with a DAC which, when compared against the current market, is probably worth about 1200USD+, for which those who were put out have only paid 500USD. Granted, this wasn't the choice of the customers with outstanding orders, but because of problems faced with the D02 manufacturing process, and what would be involved in correcting them PROPERLY (some of which couldn't be done because of the design, EG the battery residing inside the case), it was going to be quicker to just redesign the DAC. I garantee that Sony et al take longer than a year to put out any product.

And as far as Ken only 'getting into gear' after being visited by the police, this is rubbish. Ken was distraught when the cops visited because he was well into putting together prototypes and they came along and delayed him all over again by taking important papers and files. Just what he didn't need.

Anyway, I just saw that there is so much BS floating around in this lynch mob thread and one or two others, that a bit of real information was sorely needed. And if anyone's gonna get on my case about why I didn't say this stuff earlier, it's because most of what I said has only happened in the past week. Anything I've stated RE events with Ken that were said a long time were tossed aside as mere fairy tales when, really, there's not one of you who can disprove that the events ever happened.

Second to last: I haven't promoted Ken's products in ANY way, any more than anyone else who posts information about products either on sale, or soon to be. If I ever suspected Ken of being a fraud, I wouldn't have supported him for even a second.

Blitzula: I think Ken asked a very poignant question "did I kill his father????"

And finally, its RINCEwind, not RICEwind, go read a Terry Pratchett book!!!
wink.gif


Ergh, War and Peace Part 2... Sorry Hugz, but I DID tell you what happen in this thread if you started it.
smily_headphones1.gif
I'll butt out now and just wait til the 28th like everyone else should. I'm sure this will be more useful than detrimental though. Information is the most useful thing in this situation right now.

Ben.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 3:26 PM Post #70 of 174
Ben (ricewind), i'm convinced in my mind you must work for ken.


Also, for completeness
Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801
I really hate to see fellow headfiers get sucked in a second time.


Actually, the D02 was not the first time Ken has done something like this, about a year before the D02 another thing happened. The D02 was the second time around, and the pandora may be the third time around.
It's quite genious really. Take orders, wait a year, take more orders, wait a year, etc.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 3:56 PM Post #71 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Very well put elnero. I completely agree.


x2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ben (ricewind), i'm convinced in my mind you must work for ken.


x2

[and for completeness]

I had owned a D02 for a while and this unit definitely had a history of problems. I bought it after it had been fixed by a well-known MOT here who's opinion I respect and whose electronics knowledge is beyond reproach. Having opened up and worked on the unit he was not impressed with the design or its execution (and no he doesn't sell any competing products). The D02 worked fine for me, but I was not particularly impressed by its sonics (I'm probably just not an NOS guy). When I let it go, I could not in good conscience sell it so I gave it away to someone who had previously been burned in the second Ken law debacle.

Anyway, you may now crucify me for my opinions if you desire
rolleyes.gif
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 4:37 PM Post #72 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Actually, the D02 was not the first time Ken has done something like this, about a year before the D02 another thing happened. The D02 was the second time around, and the pandora may be the third time around.
It's quite genious really. Take orders, wait a year, take more orders, wait a year, etc.



That's some fine investigative work. Take your information to the Hong Kong police.

Let me see if I've got this right. Ken dreams up a scam to make $5000 a year, the police come knocking on his door, and you're calling him a genius? $5000? Do you know how high the cost of living is in Hong Kong? Your threshold for what qualifies as a genius con is remarkably low. If I took a year to scam my way into $5000 and the police started investigating me I would probably consider myself a ******* idiot.

Part of what I was hoping to imply by using the term "witch hunt" is the sheer absence of logic in some of the criticisms being levied against Ken and the situation. It's almost like mob mentality has taken over. What's most interesting to me is that those involved in the issue are, by and large, simply waiting to see what happens. The people spouting absurdly uninformed opinions and foaming at the mouth are generally the ones who don't have a stake in whatever the end result is. I find that very telling.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 4:46 PM Post #73 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I had owned a D02 for a while and this unit definitely had a history of problems. I bought it after it had been fixed by a well-known MOT here who's opinion I respect and whose electronics knowledge is beyond reproach. Having opened up and worked on the unit he was not impressed with the design or its execution (and no he doesn't sell any competing products). The D02 worked fine for me, but I was not particularly impressed by its sonics (I'm probably just not an NOS guy). When I let it go, I could not in good conscience sell it so I gave it away to someone who had previously been burned in the second Ken law debacle.

Anyway, you may now crucify me for my opinions if you desire
rolleyes.gif



This post belongs in this thread. If we could cut out the inane, pointless posts and focus on things that matter EVERYONE would benefit.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 4:50 PM Post #74 of 174
Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's almost like mob mentality has taken over. What's most interesting to me is that those involved in the issue are, by and large, simply waiting to see what happens. The people spouting absurdly uninformed opinions and foaming at the mouth are generally the ones who don't have a stake in whatever the end result is. I find that very telling.


Incredibly well said. Couldnt agree more. At this point, the $500 dollars is gone. I'm not worried about it in the least... I have a whole new budget. Its been an entire year basically since I paid. Now, I'm just waiting patiently but not getting excited or my hopes up. Whatever happens, happens. Doenst much matter at this point.
 
Jul 18, 2007 at 6:19 PM Post #75 of 174
rincewind, Superpredator, myself and a few others are correct.

Towert7, n_maher, Blitzula, jp11801, Daryn Alexander and others are, in simple terms, not.

With that said, I am off to make use of the ignore user feature which was kindly pointed out to me by barqy. I can't believe I even need to use it at all, this is head-fi
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