The Stax Thread III

[AudioThief]

Last time I posted, I had just gotten the SR-X9000 on my head and listened to three tracks. Today, I want to do a recap of the rest of that evening and some further impressions as I am listening on day two.

So, after I made my last post, I started listening to all sorts of music. Acoustic guitar, violin, piano. Jazz, metal, rock, pop. I was so impressed by how impactful the music felt that I thought to myself that I needed to get my girlfriend into my office and listen to the headphones. I went into hear playlist in Roon and started listening to some of her favorite tracks. Most of which is music I consider good, but which I wouldn’t listen to on my own. One of her favorite tracks is Volbeat – For evigt, which I’ve heard many times before. Listening to them on the SR-X9000, it felt like a completely different experience. It was so impactful, so lively and so emotionally charged that I almost couldn’t believe it.

I went on to another one of her favorites, Lewis Capaldi – Someone you loved. This is a track that was very popular some years ago, so I was very familiar with it. Again, the transparency and IMPACT of the headphones gave me a totally new experience of the track. I took a mental step back and reminded myself that this just might be my “new, expensive purchase” bias. Did I just want them to sound amazing subconsciously? I lowered my expectations to my girlfriends’ reactions. She’s not an audiophile and just because I’m experiencing or perceiving a large difference doesn’t mean she will.

I rounded up some more of her favorite tracks and beckoned her in to listen. Some months ago, I had her demo the SR-007mk2, and I remember I got a stronger reaction than usual. She’s always said the Stax sound good and clearly outperforms other headphones she’s heard (her daily is an AT ath-m50). But she hasn’t really voiced an opinion about there being any difference between Stax models I’ve put on her head (404, L500, L700) until the SR-007. When she listened to the latter, she said she could hear the sound being fuller and more enjoyable.

Well, yesterday she initially didn’t say too much. She just kept requesting track after track. 4-5 tracks in she said that she can’t remember how the other Stax sounded, but this was easily the best one she’d heard. Ok, so maybe I’m not crazy.

My “demo my gear to my girlfriend” sessions usually take around 30 minutes or so. Yesterday it took two and a half hours. She literally said – and I’m not joking – “Its like listening to the tracks for the first time again”.

After listening, we discussed the headphones a bit. She agreed with my statement that the sound feels “big” and added that it felt more intense than she’s experienced headphones before. She also commented on how she felt every element of the music taking an event amount of space in the recording. I suppose this could be translated directly to “neutral” in audiophile-speak.

When I get a new pair of headphones, I am always careful to consider my biases. I think most of us at some point in our audiophile journey has experienced getting a new pair of headphones and having a stellar first impression, only to over time realize that they weren’t to your liking – or at least not as amazing as you first thought.

The number of possible factors impacting how we perceive a pair of headphones is endless. To mention a few relevant ones in this specific scenario: I am a Stax fan, this is Stax statement product, it is the heir to the legendary SR-Omegas. The product cost a lot. It comes in a premium box and has premium build quality. It is regarded as one of – if not the – best headphones on the planet.

At the same time, I’ve noticed certain factors impacting my impression in a negative way. If I’m tired or in a bad mood, that can ruin any listening experience. If the room is too hot or too cold, that’s bad too. Yesterday I was quite tired due to lack of sleep and a stiff neck. My head was ready to explode after studying all day. I had also spent a considerable amount of time subduing my expectations to the headphones. And my expectations were already quite conservative as mentioned, as the sound in the 007/L700 are already, to my ears, heads and shoulders above other headphones I’ve had extensive time listening to. I realized early on that the audiophile journey can’t be an endless journey where you just keep throwing money at it and the sound just improves.

When I discussed the headphone with my girlfriend yesterday, I tried to explain my expectations like this: A pair of brand new L700 here in Norway costs around $2000. The SR-007mk2 is about $3000. If we say that the sonic difference between the two feels reasonable considering the price difference, I was expecting the SR-X9000 to perform to a price of around $4000-4500. This isn’t to say the SR-007mk2 sounds 50% better than the L700, or that I expected the SR-X9000 to sound X-percentage better than the 007, but rather that the improvement I expected probably couldn’t match the price difference. That’s just how it usually goes in this hobby.

Anyways, after listening to the SR-X9000 for some hours, I feel like given the premise that the L700 – 007 price difference represents a fair deal considering the sonic differences, I feel like the SR-X9000 is also being sold for a fair sum at around $8500 (again, in Norway).

My view right now is that the SR-X9000 is almost incomparable to any other headphone I’ve ever heard. It has given me the single most impactful audiophile experience I’ve ever experienced. I find it hard to put into words, because what stands out to me is just how good they sound. I’m essentially at a loss for words.

Now as I mentioned, we’ve all experienced raving about a pair of headphones before later realizing they had issues. I’m sure I’ll find something to criticize the SR-X9000 for eventually, but I am also sure that it stands so far above anything else I’ve heard that it won’t matter.

I’ll make an attempt to explain why I like them so much, but it is difficult. As I’ve mentioned several times, the sound is so “big”. So immersive. I’ve never heard a pair of headphone sound so lifelike. I can close my eyes and envision a live concert going on in front of me. I’ve attempted this with other headphones, and when I’ve done so, I’ve had to use significant brain power to convince myself. With the SR-X9000, it is instant.

I think one of the most important reasons for this level of immersion is how the headphones sit on the head. They are incredibly light with almost no clamping force. They almost disappear from your head. This obviously helps with immersion, as the feeling of headphones on your head will impact how you perceive the sound. The brain is more aware of the fact that the sound is coming from headphones, and so it perceives it as such.

To aid with immersion is of course the amazing level of transparency and clarity of the SR-X9000. There is space for absolutely everything on the track and there is no conflict between each element of the music. The soundstage and imaging properties obviously help a lot with this.

The bass is a lot more impactful than any other Stax I’ve heard. While – as all Stax – they are not bass cannons meant to rumble your head, the bass sounds exactly like it should. It has punch, it goes deep and it’s completely clean. While the SR-007 does indeed have more potential for rumble, it doesn’t have the same impact as the SR-X9000 in non-bass-centric music.

The SR-X9000 also has an amazing ability to have a treble like that of brighter Stax – however it is never fatiguing or bright. It’s scary how high I can turn up the volume without experiencing discomfort.

Ok, I guess I’ve rambled on for long enough. Closing words for today is that the SR-X9000 is the best headphones I’ve ever heard, and it isn’t close. Old tracks played to death has been given new life. Music has never been this immersive or exciting. Thank you Stax! PS: I want to make some replies to other posters in this thread, but this post is long enough as it is. So I'll check in later to avoid double posting.

 

[icnaiwhimor1975]

The SR-X9000 also has an amazing ability to have a treble like that of brighter Stax

x9000 - the best headphones ever created

 

[Svperstar]

My view right now is that the SR-X9000 is almost incomparable to any other headphone I’ve ever heard. It has given me the single most impactful audiophile experience I’ve ever experienced. I find it hard to put into words, because what stands out to me is just how good they sound. I’m essentially at a loss for words.

I recommend messing around with EqualizerAPO/your preferred EQ. There aren't as many measurements for the X9000 as for something like the HD650 but they are still out there. I experimented with using AI and doing an average of multiple EQs. I almost always run a bass boost as well and the X9000 responds well.

 

[davidbea]

I received my Spritzer modified 007A's today and have tried them with my SRM1/Mk2 (nice) and now with my SRM T-1. Listening to Messiaen's Chants de Terre et de Ciel with Suzie Leblanc on ATMA Classique. Breathtaking. The voice floats...Earlier when listening to the Turangalîla Symphony I was impressed by the increased but not over emphasized detail and air but was aware of some limited dynamics but not offensive. Suggestions for next steps that wouldn't sabotage when I have always appreciated. I'm listening from a Brennan B2 feeding an Mhdt Havana. Anybody using a Spritzer modified SRM-007tA? Thank you for any suggestions.

Is anyone actually using a Spritzer modified SRM T-1 with the 007A?

 

[fidgeraldo]

The L700 was noticeably warmer to me

I guess you are speaking about L700mk2.
You say they are warm sounding? I have SR-003mk2 earphones, which are not warm by any means, and I really like them.
Since folks call them baby (I read that) SR-L700mk2, I was thinking of buying a pair in the future.
I thought they would have the same sound signature.
But with what you wrote, now I have questions about L700mk2 and whether I want them if they are warm sounding.

Cheers!

 

[LarsHP]

Last time I posted, I had just gotten the SR-X9000 on my head and listened to three tracks. Today, I want to do a recap of the rest of that evening and some further impressions as I am listening on day two.

So, after I made my last post, I started listening to all sorts of music. Acoustic guitar, violin, piano. Jazz, metal, rock, pop. I was so impressed by how impactful the music felt that I thought to myself that I needed to get my girlfriend into my office and listen to the headphones. I went into hear playlist in Roon and started listening to some of her favorite tracks. Most of which is music I consider good, but which I wouldn’t listen to on my own. One of her favorite tracks is Volbeat – For evigt, which I’ve heard many times before. Listening to them on the SR-X9000, it felt like a completely different experience. It was so impactful, so lively and so emotionally charged that I almost couldn’t believe it.

I went on to another one of her favorites, Lewis Capaldi – Someone you loved. This is a track that was very popular some years ago, so I was very familiar with it. Again, the transparency and IMPACT of the headphones gave me a totally new experience of the track. I took a mental step back and reminded myself that this just might be my “new, expensive purchase” bias. Did I just want them to sound amazing subconsciously? I lowered my expectations to my girlfriends’ reactions. She’s not an audiophile and just because I’m experiencing or perceiving a large difference doesn’t mean she will.

I rounded up some more of her favorite tracks and beckoned her in to listen. Some months ago, I had her demo the SR-007mk2, and I remember I got a stronger reaction than usual. She’s always said the Stax sound good and clearly outperforms other headphones she’s heard (her daily is an AT ath-m50). But she hasn’t really voiced an opinion about there being any difference between Stax models I’ve put on her head (404, L500, L700) until the SR-007. When she listened to the latter, she said she could hear the sound being fuller and more enjoyable.

Well, yesterday she initially didn’t say too much. She just kept requesting track after track. 4-5 tracks in she said that she can’t remember how the other Stax sounded, but this was easily the best one she’d heard. Ok, so maybe I’m not crazy.

My “demo my gear to my girlfriend” sessions usually take around 30 minutes or so. Yesterday it took two and a half hours. She literally said – and I’m not joking – “Its like listening to the tracks for the first time again”.

After listening, we discussed the headphones a bit. She agreed with my statement that the sound feels “big” and added that it felt more intense than she’s experienced headphones before. She also commented on how she felt every element of the music taking an event amount of space in the recording. I suppose this could be translated directly to “neutral” in audiophile-speak.

When I get a new pair of headphones, I am always careful to consider my biases. I think most of us at some point in our audiophile journey has experienced getting a new pair of headphones and having a stellar first impression, only to over time realize that they weren’t to your liking – or at least not as amazing as you first thought.

The number of possible factors impacting how we perceive a pair of headphones is endless. To mention a few relevant ones in this specific scenario: I am a Stax fan, this is Stax statement product, it is the heir to the legendary SR-Omegas. The product cost a lot. It comes in a premium box and has premium build quality. It is regarded as one of – if not the – best headphones on the planet.

At the same time, I’ve noticed certain factors impacting my impression in a negative way. If I’m tired or in a bad mood, that can ruin any listening experience. If the room is too hot or too cold, that’s bad too. Yesterday I was quite tired due to lack of sleep and a stiff neck. My head was ready to explode after studying all day. I had also spent a considerable amount of time subduing my expectations to the headphones. And my expectations were already quite conservative as mentioned, as the sound in the 007/L700 are already, to my ears, heads and shoulders above other headphones I’ve had extensive time listening to. I realized early on that the audiophile journey can’t be an endless journey where you just keep throwing money at it and the sound just improves.

When I discussed the headphone with my girlfriend yesterday, I tried to explain my expectations like this: A pair of brand new L700 here in Norway costs around $2000. The SR-007mk2 is about $3000. If we say that the sonic difference between the two feels reasonable considering the price difference, I was expecting the SR-X9000 to perform to a price of around $4000-4500. This isn’t to say the SR-007mk2 sounds 50% better than the L700, or that I expected the SR-X9000 to sound X-percentage better than the 007, but rather that the improvement I expected probably couldn’t match the price difference. That’s just how it usually goes in this hobby.

Anyways, after listening to the SR-X9000 for some hours, I feel like given the premise that the L700 – 007 price difference represents a fair deal considering the sonic differences, I feel like the SR-X9000 is also being sold for a fair sum at around $8500 (again, in Norway).

My view right now is that the SR-X9000 is almost incomparable to any other headphone I’ve ever heard. It has given me the single most impactful audiophile experience I’ve ever experienced. I find it hard to put into words, because what stands out to me is just how good they sound. I’m essentially at a loss for words.

Now as I mentioned, we’ve all experienced raving about a pair of headphones before later realizing they had issues. I’m sure I’ll find something to criticize the SR-X9000 for eventually, but I am also sure that it stands so far above anything else I’ve heard that it won’t matter.

I’ll make an attempt to explain why I like them so much, but it is difficult. As I’ve mentioned several times, the sound is so “big”. So immersive. I’ve never heard a pair of headphone sound so lifelike. I can close my eyes and envision a live concert going on in front of me. I’ve attempted this with other headphones, and when I’ve done so, I’ve had to use significant brain power to convince myself. With the SR-X9000, it is instant.

I think one of the most important reasons for this level of immersion is how the headphones sit on the head. They are incredibly light with almost no clamping force. They almost disappear from your head. This obviously helps with immersion, as the feeling of headphones on your head will impact how you perceive the sound. The brain is more aware of the fact that the sound is coming from headphones, and so it perceives it as such.

To aid with immersion is of course the amazing level of transparency and clarity of the SR-X9000. There is space for absolutely everything on the track and there is no conflict between each element of the music. The soundstage and imaging properties obviously help a lot with this.

The bass is a lot more impactful than any other Stax I’ve heard. While – as all Stax – they are not bass cannons meant to rumble your head, the bass sounds exactly like it should. It has punch, it goes deep and it’s completely clean. While the SR-007 does indeed have more potential for rumble, it doesn’t have the same impact as the SR-X9000 in non-bass-centric music.

The SR-X9000 also has an amazing ability to have a treble like that of brighter Stax – however it is never fatiguing or bright. It’s scary how high I can turn up the volume without experiencing discomfort.

Ok, I guess I’ve rambled on for long enough. Closing words for today is that the SR-X9000 is the best headphones I’ve ever heard, and it isn’t close. Old tracks played to death has been given new life. Music has never been this immersive or exciting. Thank you Stax! PS: I want to make some replies to other posters in this thread, but this post is long enough as it is. So I'll check in later to avoid double posting.

Thanks for sharing. Inspiring to read.

I have read a bit about what people say about the X9000 and some say they sound less dynamic ("dynamically softer") than, say SR-007 Mk1. What is your impression in that regard?

(I remember reading similar criticism regarding HiFiMan HE1000 from people having the HE-6.)

Edit: Fixed typo.

 

[AudioThief]

Thanks for sharing. Inspiring to read.

I have read a bit about what people say about the X9000 and some say they sound less dynamic ("dynamically softer") than, say SR-007 Mk1. What is your impression in that regard?

(I remember reading similar criticism regarding HiFiMan HE1000 for people having the HE-6.)

I'm not the most fluent in audiophile-speak, but if I understand correctly, dynamics essentially refers to the impact of the sound. I.e., a neutral, flat and light on bass headphone would be less dynamic than a colored, v-shaped bass-heavy headphone, all else being equal?

I'm going to describe something I'm not sure will make sense, but I will try:

When I listen to L700 and SR-X9000, sounds might "tickle" my ear, so to speak. I understand it sounds strange, because its not literally tickling it or doing anything physical to it. But there is something about the crispness of the sound which is satisfying in a way that feels physical. This effect is less apparent in the SR-007, in comparison. On the flipside, however, the 007 will give a physical sensation not "in" my ear, but around it. I feel like this difference comes down to the "body" of the sound. The SR-007 definitely has more body. The sound is over all thicker. The SR-X9000 is much more airy, and the impact of the sound feels more "into my ear" than "around my ear".

I would never call the SR-X9000, or the L700 for that matter, thin sounding. But they are leaner than the SR-007. I believe this is a result from the 007 having more bass presence in general, combined with the (in relation to X9K) more intimate staging. I can't think of a single circumstance where I'd call the X9K "softer" than the 007, though. The 007 feels softer in basically all aspects. The X9K clearly leaner, cleaner and more analytical sounding.

If I'm just talking about differences in general between the headphone, what jumps out at me is the difference in sound stage and separation. The 007 has a smaller soundstage and doesn't bring the magnifying glass onto details the same way the X9K does. To me, SR-007 is much more subtle when it comes to its transparency.

 

[LarsHP]

I'm not the most fluent in audiophile-speak, but if I understand correctly, dynamics essentially refers to the impact of the sound. I.e., a neutral, flat and light on bass headphone would be less dynamic than a colored, v-shaped bass-heavy headphone, all else being equal?

I'm going to describe something I'm not sure will make sense, but I will try:

When I listen to L700 and SR-X9000, sounds might "tickle" my ear, so to speak. I understand it sounds strange, because its not literally tickling it or doing anything physical to it. But there is something about the crispness of the sound which is satisfying in a way that feels physical. This effect is less apparent in the SR-007, in comparison. On the flipside, however, the 007 will give a physical sensation not "in" my ear, but around it. I feel like this difference comes down to the "body" of the sound. The SR-007 definitely has more body. The sound is over all thicker. The SR-X9000 is much more airy, and the impact of the sound feels more "into my ear" than "around my ear".

I would never call the SR-X9000, or the L700 for that matter, thin sounding. But they are leaner than the SR-007. I believe this is a result from the 007 having more bass presence in general, combined with the (in relation to X9K) more intimate staging. I can't think of a single circumstance where I'd call the X9K "softer" than the 007, though. The 007 feels softer in basically all aspects. The X9K clearly leaner, cleaner and more analytical sounding.

If I'm just talking about differences in general between the headphone, what jumps out at me is the difference in sound stage and separation. The 007 has a smaller soundstage and doesn't bring the magnifying glass onto details the same way the X9K does. To me, SR-007 is much more subtle when it comes to its transparency.

The greek word dynamis means power. When referring to dynamic sound, my understanding is that it's about how large a sudden change from low sound level to high volume sounds (or measures). In order to create a very loud sound, you need power. Typical instruments that are dynamic are drums and piano, particularly when played violently.

Transients defines how abruptly the change sounds, but these can also relate to micro dynamics, i.e. micro details etc.

 

[AudioThief]

The greek word dynamis means power. When referring to dynamic sound, my understanding is that it's about how large a sudden change from low sound level to high volume sounds (or measures). In order to create a very loud sound, you need power. Typical instruments that are dynamic are drums and piano, particularly when played violently.

Transients defines how abruptly the change sounds, but these can also relate to micro dynamics, i.e. micro details etc.

Hmmm.. That is a hard question to answer. I've never really considered that any Stax could be hard or soft in this regard. Both drums and pianos, be it soft or hard, sounds great on the SR-X9000.

If I listen to the track "Skyline Bazaar" by Breath of Nibiru, particularly 3:30 - 4:47, I would say that the outstanding strength on the SR-X9000 is the soundstage, imaging and impact of the drums. While the SR-007 does a truly amazing job on this track in general, and delivers a more heavy hitting sound in terms of WEIGHT compared to the SR-X9000 - the latter sounds more lifelike. I wouldn't say I notice any difference in terms of transient response. The clear difference is the difference in soundstage, imaging, separation and weight of the sound. The SR-X9000 is more clear, airy and crisp. Snare and hihats sound clearer and with more impact (tickles my ear). The SR-007 has more impact. I.e., it is moving in the direction of Audeze LCD-2s (but still got ways to go) in terms of the weight of the sound.

I have no idea if I'm even answering any questions at this point, hope it makes any sort of sense Lars.

 

[LarsHP]

Hmmm.. That is a hard question to answer. I've never really considered that any Stax could be hard or soft in this regard. Both drums and pianos, be it soft or hard, sounds great on the SR-X9000.

If I listen to the track "Skyline Bazaar" by Breath of Nibiru, particularly 3:30 - 4:47, I would say that the outstanding strength on the SR-X9000 is the soundstage, imaging and impact of the drums. While the SR-007 does a truly amazing job on this track in general, and delivers a more heavy hitting sound in terms of WEIGHT compared to the SR-X9000 - the latter sounds more lifelike. I wouldn't say I notice any difference in terms of transient response. The clear difference is the difference in soundstage, imaging, separation and weight of the sound. The SR-X9000 is more clear, airy and crisp. Snare and hihats sound clearer and with more impact (tickles my ear). The SR-007 has more impact. I.e., it is moving in the direction of Audeze LCD-2s (but still got ways to go) in terms of the weight of the sound.

I have no idea if I'm even answering any questions at this point, hope it makes any sort of sense Lars.

Okay, thanks. Dynamic range can be measured and this webpage shares measurements of various issues.

If you have access to some of the below tracks that sound typically dynamic (with kick drum), then you should be able to "get" what I am thinking of:

Michael Jackson: Billie Jean (depends on the master)
Bobby McFrerrin: Friends
Steely Dan: Gaslighting Abbie
Lionel Richie: Can't Slow Down
B-52's: Cosmic Thing (this track has some serious slam too)

 

[newbluesuit]

Today I got to compare the Warwick Bravura, the Audeze CRBN2, and the Stax SR-009s, and then at a different store the Hifiman Shangri-La Jr and (again) the Stax SR-009s. The Bravura was obviously powered by the matching Warwick Sonoma energizer (with its embedded DSP and DAC). In the first session the CRBN2 and SR-009s were both powered by a Stax SRM-400S energizer (solid state) fed by a Chord Qutest, while in the second session the Shangri-La Jr and SR-009s were both powered by the Shangri-La Jr energizer (tubes) fed by a T+A DAC 200.

The source was uncompressed audio files that I am very familiar with, ranging from acoustic jazz to hard rock with both male and female vocals. I have to say that I am not a big fan of the Chord sound and that I have never liked tubes, so the conditions were not ideal, but I believe that I am familiar enough with both to properly identify what is specific to them and try and not take that into account too much when judging the headphones.

Technically, the SR-009s is the clear winner among these four in my opinion, but the CRBN2 is not too far behind. The bass feels ‘raised’ on the Audeze, which makes it difficult to evaluate its extension in comparison to the Stax. In every other frequency range the Stax felt ahead of the Audeze, but not by a huge amount. Both are very impressive headphones, also in terms of build, finish, and comfort. The Audeze are heavier and have a bit more ‘clamp’ than the Stax, which I found more comfortable as a result, but that is not to say that there is any issue with the CRBN2 in this respect.

The most surprising thing to me about the CRBN2 (having never heard the CRBN) is its frequency response, which is very different from any of the electrostats I have heard so far. While it is not my preference (too much midrange and not enough treble for my taste, though not by much), it sounded very well rounded and accurate to me (unlike the recent planar offerings from Audeze, such as the LCD-5 and the MM series). I can imagine that many people would find the tuning of the CRBN2 perfect as it is (whereas with Stax in general, properly ‘cleaning up’ the midrange with a bit of EQ is always going to result in a marked improvement in my opinion). However, since I would personally choose to EQ the CRBN2 as well, the SR-009s with EQ remains my preferred option.

The Shangri-La Jr is the brightest electrostat I have ever heard, resulting in a very wide and detailed presentation but relative lack of ‘body’, not unlike the Sennheiser HD 800 (unfortunately I did not have the HD 800 with me to compare). Its bass extension is definitely not on par with the SR-009s, however, and the bass even felt recessed on many recordings (probably more so than on the HD 800). I found the treble a bit harsh occasionally, but that was also the case with the SR-009s plugged into the Shangri-La Jr energizer (though less often), so clearly the energizer was at least partly responsible for this. It may be interesting to try the Shangri-La Jr headphones with a good solid-state energizer, but that was not an option at that store. While the midrange on the Hifiman is less ‘awkward’ than on the Stax, I still felt that it could use a bit of EQ (and you’d need EQ to get back some of the missing bass anyway). The weight and comfort of the Shangri-La Jr are very similar to those of the SR-009s.

At one point I thought that it may make sense to own both the SR-009s and the Shangri-La Jr (not with the Shangri-La Jr energizer, though), because the Stax, although technically superior overall, cannot match the ‘width’ of the Hifiman. Exactly at that moment, the frequency response in the right cup of the Shangri-La Jr went significantly darker all of a sudden. Fiddling with the cable a bit solved the issue (which I could not reproduce), but I was painfully reminded of Hifiman’s extremely poor build and quality control.

Also typical of Hifiman is the cheap-looking finish, which in the case of the Shangri-La Jr headphones and energizer is a very sparkly and rugged silver-ish coating that seems to come straight out of a drag queen’s makeup set (and probably wears off just as easily, based on my experience with the HE1000 V2). This particular unit also crinkled loudly when moving the left cup around, although that did not occur when the headphones were properly placed on my head, so it did not impact the listening experience. Still, I find that completely unacceptable for such an expensive product.

While it does offer a good amount of detail, the Bravura mostly sounds and feels like a decent pair of closed-back dynamic headphones to me (in fact I’m pretty sure that the Denon AH-D9200 would beat the Bravura in many if not most respects—the store did have a unit on display, but unfortunately I did not have enough time left to do that comparison). The higher midrange is very forward, sometimes painfully so—yet the overall experience is rather dull and lifeless. Bass extension is poor, and what bass there is has little to no impact. The presentation is also fairly narrow.

It’s probably not a bad pair of headphones from a technical standpoint, but whatever Warwick are doing with their DSP is completely off, and there is no way to bypass it (I don’t really understand the point of DSP without any option for the user to tweak the frequency response—or at least switch between three of four preset options—anyway). What’s more, the whole set does not feel nor look premium at all: the materials are nothing special, and there are big ugly logos everywhere, with no particular care for coherence (the logos all use different fonts, and there are at least three different types of silver finishes on the energizer alone!). It’s a complete mystery to me how such a product can sell at such a price (but does it?).

Hopefully these notes will be useful to some of you.

 

[SolarCetacean]

Technically, the SR-009s is the clear winner among these four in my opinion, but the CRBN2 is not too far behind. The bass feels ‘raised’ on the Audeze, which makes it difficult to evaluate its extension in comparison to the Stax. In every other frequency range the Stax felt ahead of the Audeze, but not by a huge amount. Both are very impressive headphones, also in terms of build, finish, and comfort. The Audeze are heavier and have a bit more ‘clamp’ than the Stax, which I found more comfortable as a result, but that is not to say that there is any issue with the CRBN2 in this respect.

The Shangri-La Jr is the brightest electrostat I have ever heard, resulting in a very wide and detailed presentation but relative lack of ‘body’, not unlike the Sennheiser HD 800 (unfortunately I did not have the HD 800 with me to compare). Its bass extension is definitely not on par with the SR-009s, however, and the bass even felt recessed on many recordings (probably more so than on the HD 800). I found the treble a bit harsh occasionally, but that was also the case with the SR-009s plugged into the Shangri-La Jr energizer (though less often), so clearly the energizer was at least partly responsible for this. It may be interesting to try the Shangri-La Jr headphones with a good solid-state energizer, but that was not an option at that store. While the midrange on the Hifiman is less ‘awkward’ than on the Stax, I still felt that it could use a bit of EQ (and you’d need EQ to get back some of the missing bass anyway). The weight and comfort of the Shangri-La Jr are very similar to those of the SR-009s.

At one point I thought that it may make sense to own both the SR-009s and the Shangri-La Jr (not with the Shangri-La Jr energizer, though), because the Stax, although technically superior overall, cannot match the ‘width’ of the Hifiman. Exactly at that moment, the frequency response in the right cup of the Shangri-La Jr went significantly darker all of a sudden. Fiddling with the cable a bit solved the issue (which I could not reproduce), but I was painfully reminded of Hifiman’s extremely poor build and quality control.

Also typical of Hifiman is the cheap-looking finish, which in the case of the Shangri-La Jr headphones and energizer is a very sparkly and rugged silver-ish coating that seems to come straight out of a drag queen’s makeup set (and probably wears off just as easily, based on my experience with the HE1000 V2). This particular unit also crinkled loudly when moving the left cup around, although that did not occur when the headphones were properly placed on my head, so it did not impact the listening experience. Still, I find that completely unacceptable for such an expensive product.

I heard two different Shang Jrs at CanJam last month, one on the Shang Sr amp and the other on the Jr amp, and I now understand where you're coming from with these SGL Jr impressions. Both of the Jrs I heard at the show were thin, shrill, and piercing. The amp was so weak that I got it to clip on one of my tracks, which has never happened at home on Stax amps and the Z10e. The demo SGL Jrs sounded awful, while my unit I have at home sounded far richer and smoother. Another user on the SGL Jr thread here said that a thin-sounding amp seemed indicative of poor biasing of the tubes; it seems plausible to me for demo units that had to travel a long time in cold weather, but I have no way to confirm that.

It's unfortunate that the Jr you tried had those quality issues. I suppose it's to be expected with Hifiman's QC track record and the wear-and-tear placed on a store demo unit. The earcup joints on my unit also creak when I'm holding them in my hands and rotating them, though there's no noise when worn. However, my Jr is over 3 years old and the speckled finish has not worn off in the least. I also think it looks quite nice, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The earpads on the Jr also wear out pretty quickly and both units I heard at CanJam had pads that were quite worn and thin in the front. I've changed pads twice on my personal unit and the ones I have right now are Susvara pads, which should be identical to the Jr's pads (HarmonyPad), but this pair has held up extremely well in the 1.5 years I've used them. Perhaps I got a golden sample of the Jr and/or the earpads.

Between the 009S and the SGL Jr, keeping in mind that I haven't heard them side-by-side, I would pick the Jr (or at least, my Jr) over the 009S because of the midrange; I slightly prefer the Hifiman-style midrange over the Stax midrange a la 009S as slightly too breathy is preferable to slightly too honky. I think the US$4K MSRP of the Jr (which can usually be negotiated down at least 10% with a dealer) makes it a competitive offering vs the 009S at US$4.5K, provided that you aren't using the Jr's amp lol. Now, I recognize you're in Switzerland, which has different pricing, so I don't know if that price comparison would make sense for you.

The CRBN2 is where I don't think its higher price is worth it vs other headphones in that price range, particularly the X9000. I heard the CRBN2 on the Mjolnir Carbon amp at CanJam and I thought it was pretty good, though the demo music selection was limited and I couldn't use my own. It had good bass quantity and satisfying punchiness to that bass on the Carbon amp (it was a different story when I heard it on the Z10e at CAF last year). The midrange was rich and reminded me of the older Audeze house tuning. I agree that it does seem to lack the same amount of treble - and the resulting qualities like airiness and perceived clarity - that most other electrostatics have. I think the CRBN2 requires a powerful amp like the CRBN because when I heard it on the Z10e and iFi Phantom, it had a similar tonal balance with emphasized bass and midrange, but none of the punchiness that is needed to make that tuning sound good. It sounded bloated, muddy, and yet overly smooth on that sub-optimal amp. But at US$6000, I would never pick it over the X9000 which is practically the same price. The OG CRBN at $4500 was a viable alternative to the 009S alongside the SGL Jr and the DCA Corina as it offered a distinct sound at the same price point. I think the X9000 performs at a higher level than that bunch in terms of both tuning smoothness/naturalness and the intangibles like clarity and spaciousness, so it justifies its higher price point to some degree. I don't think that the CRBN2 reaches that same tier of performance to justify being in the same tier in price - of course, my preferences in sound lean towards what Stax is optimizing for.

I also agree that the Bravura failed to impress in sound quality and in comfort. Not spacious, bass was only OK, midrange was forgettable. Clamp force was higher than I'd like too. I heard the Aperio in the same demo and it was noticeably improved vs the Bravura, but I still prefer my X9000 on pure sound quality and the Aperio's price could let me buy a TOTL chain for the X9000.

Thanks for sharing your impressions, I found them useful to cross-reference my impressions of headphones with yours.

 

[Chefguru]

Today I got to compare the Warwick Bravura, the Audeze CRBN2, and the Stax SR-009s, and then at a different store the Hifiman Shangri-La Jr and (again) the Stax SR-009s. The Bravura was obviously powered by the matching Warwick Sonoma energizer (with its embedded DSP and DAC). In the first session the CRBN2 and SR-009s were both powered by a Stax SRM-400S energizer (solid state) fed by a Chord Qutest, while in the second session the Shangri-La Jr and SR-009s were both powered by the Shangri-La Jr energizer (tubes) fed by a T+A DAC 200.

The source was uncompressed audio files that I am very familiar with, ranging from acoustic jazz to hard rock with both male and female vocals. I have to say that I am not a big fan of the Chord sound and that I have never liked tubes, so the conditions were not ideal, but I believe that I am familiar enough with both to properly identify what is specific to them and try and not take that into account too much when judging the headphones.

Technically, the SR-009s is the clear winner among these four in my opinion, but the CRBN2 is not too far behind. The bass feels ‘raised’ on the Audeze, which makes it difficult to evaluate its extension in comparison to the Stax. In every other frequency range the Stax felt ahead of the Audeze, but not by a huge amount. Both are very impressive headphones, also in terms of build, finish, and comfort. The Audeze are heavier and have a bit more ‘clamp’ than the Stax, which I found more comfortable as a result, but that is not to say that there is any issue with the CRBN2 in this respect.

The most surprising thing to me about the CRBN2 (having never heard the CRBN) is its frequency response, which is very different from any of the electrostats I have heard so far. While it is not my preference (too much midrange and not enough treble for my taste, though not by much), it sounded very well rounded and accurate to me (unlike the recent planar offerings from Audeze, such as the LCD-5 and the MM series). I can imagine that many people would find the tuning of the CRBN2 perfect as it is (whereas with Stax in general, properly ‘cleaning up’ the midrange with a bit of EQ is always going to result in a marked improvement in my opinion). However, since I would personally choose to EQ the CRBN2 as well, the SR-009s with EQ remains my preferred option.

The Shangri-La Jr is the brightest electrostat I have ever heard, resulting in a very wide and detailed presentation but relative lack of ‘body’, not unlike the Sennheiser HD 800 (unfortunately I did not have the HD 800 with me to compare). Its bass extension is definitely not on par with the SR-009s, however, and the bass even felt recessed on many recordings (probably more so than on the HD 800). I found the treble a bit harsh occasionally, but that was also the case with the SR-009s plugged into the Shangri-La Jr energizer (though less often), so clearly the energizer was at least partly responsible for this. It may be interesting to try the Shangri-La Jr headphones with a good solid-state energizer, but that was not an option at that store. While the midrange on the Hifiman is less ‘awkward’ than on the Stax, I still felt that it could use a bit of EQ (and you’d need EQ to get back some of the missing bass anyway). The weight and comfort of the Shangri-La Jr are very similar to those of the SR-009s.

At one point I thought that it may make sense to own both the SR-009s and the Shangri-La Jr (not with the Shangri-La Jr energizer, though), because the Stax, although technically superior overall, cannot match the ‘width’ of the Hifiman. Exactly at that moment, the frequency response in the right cup of the Shangri-La Jr went significantly darker all of a sudden. Fiddling with the cable a bit solved the issue (which I could not reproduce), but I was painfully reminded of Hifiman’s extremely poor build and quality control.

Also typical of Hifiman is the cheap-looking finish, which in the case of the Shangri-La Jr headphones and energizer is a very sparkly and rugged silver-ish coating that seems to come straight out of a drag queen’s makeup set (and probably wears off just as easily, based on my experience with the HE1000 V2). This particular unit also crinkled loudly when moving the left cup around, although that did not occur when the headphones were properly placed on my head, so it did not impact the listening experience. Still, I find that completely unacceptable for such an expensive product.

While it does offer a good amount of detail, the Bravura mostly sounds and feels like a decent pair of closed-back dynamic headphones to me (in fact I’m pretty sure that the Denon AH-D9200 would beat the Bravura in many if not most respects—the store did have a unit on display, but unfortunately I did not have enough time left to do that comparison). The higher midrange is very forward, sometimes painfully so—yet the overall experience is rather dull and lifeless. Bass extension is poor, and what bass there is has little to no impact. The presentation is also fairly narrow.

It’s probably not a bad pair of headphones from a technical standpoint, but whatever Warwick are doing with their DSP is completely off, and there is no way to bypass it (I don’t really understand the point of DSP without any option for the user to tweak the frequency response—or at least switch between three of four preset options—anyway). What’s more, the whole set does not feel nor look premium at all: the materials are nothing special, and there are big ugly logos everywhere, with no particular care for coherence (the logos all use different fonts, and there are at least three different types of silver finishes on the energizer alone!). It’s a complete mystery to me how such a product can sell at such a price (but does it?).

Hopefully these notes will be useful to some of you.

This more or less mirrors my experience owning the 009s and OG CRBN, although if the CRBN2 is anything like the OG (which technically it appears to be), it will likely have a larger performance bump from a more powerful amp than the 009/009s.

As @SolarCetacean said, the biggest issue with the CRBN line is the price point. Clearly they want to compete with the $6k flagships but the OG CRBN really was more comparable imo to the $2500 Stax sr-007.

I get that they’re probably losing a ton of money on doing an estat, and that’s the issue - but had they released this model originally without the sticking driver issues at $4500 back in 2021 - and choose to partner with Mjolnir or headamp for a KgssHv bundle instead of the z10 … they’d of cornered the market. At ~$6k for an amp/headphone combo this would have been a “go to” totl recommendation.

Who’s realistically going to buy this at full msrp? Sure some people will upgrade their older CRBNs but I’m guessing less than 250 units will sell beyond that. I am literally the perfect customer and can’t justify the leap.

 

[AudioThief]

Okay, thanks. Dynamic range can be measured and this webpage shares measurements of various issues.

If you have access to some of the below tracks that sound typically dynamic (with kick drum), then you should be able to "get" what I am thinking of:

Michael Jackson: Billie Jean (depends on the master)
Bobby McFrerrin: Friends
Steely Dan: Gaslighting Abbie
Lionel Richie: Can't Slow Down
B-52's: Cosmic Thing (this track has some serious slam too)

Thank you. I did some research trying to understand what your question was refering to, and I ended up asking chatGPT to explain it to me, LOL. Anyways, I think I understand what you are asking about.

My answer is that I do not think I possess the critical listening ability to differentiate this aspect between the 007 and the SR-X9000. To me, it sounds like both of these headphones handle dynamic range exceedingly well. To be honest, I would even be skeptical of someone claiming to hear one being softer than the other in this regard. But I might be mistaken, of course.

 

[LarsHP]

...

I think I saw you saying something about what you didn't like about the SR-X9000 in the dedicated thread.
Could you please elaborate on that, including what you mean with "dynamic softness"?