[tabness]

the people say everything and the opposite of everything. Like i wrote in the past, 009 is Lucifer of the headphones. Fell from heaven to hell

The 009/S is at its lowpoint right now in terms of desirability, plus the general headphone market seems down (a reflection of the general economic situation I guess as compared to like the printing money days just past).

Look at stuff from the early 2000s on the Omega or R10 or even HE90, they weren't as respected at that point and their status seems to have grown the longer they stayed out of production, and the prices increased (they got rid of the old for sale forum but if you were here on head-fi in like 2004 you could pick up R10s and Omegas for like 2000 bucks or less lol)

It will be interesting to see what happens the 009, I do think it will be considered a classic eventually, if it already isn't considered one, but it will never get the treatment that the Omega or R10 or HE90 or whatever got at least price wise, because those phones came at a time where there wasn't a market for such ridiculously priced headphones, and they sold in the hundreds of units. Same with maybe not as highly regarded phones at the time that still had low volumes like the Qualia and HP1000 and L3000 which skyrocketed pricewise because there weren't many units made. Even for the later 007, the MK1 sold in far less quantities than the MK2, especially those 70xxx units (I guess now the 71xxx are the big things reputation wise?), and have held their prices and started to creep up.

There are just too many 009s around, there will probably be too many X9000s around soon enough as well. They may get a classic treatment, but I doubt they'll ever be the big money collector items like the nineties phones.

Nice time to buy a 009 though lol (saying that as someone that just picked one up). It is the culimation of New STAX before the Edifier sale and clearly serves as the baseline for their future phone development, so I'm happy enough to own one at a far more reasonable price than $5250 or even $3000ish. Hope the hype around the new ones is legit, let's see.

 

[Joey_V]

What’s the best amp for the x9000? Or atleast top 3? Where does a more entry KGST stand?

I have one that just arrived from dealer. Waiting on my decision on the amp.

 

[tjlindle]

Just chiming in to add that the 007 is very hard to properly drive. I'm more of a fan of the 009 naturally, but when I moved from the BHSE to the T2, I was really impressed with just how much better it was. For the longest of time I viewed the 009 as just incredibly better technically. It IS better imo, but the 007 is very special in its own right despite not being as open or as resolving, and the gap isn't what I originally thought it was.

I don't think you need a T2, and I would imagine given everything I've read of people's experiences, the carbon would be really ideal power and synergistically. But I do think a lot of people are listening to this headphone underpowered. As another reference point, I have had the SRM1-MK2 and T1s as backups and they just don't do *full* justice for the 007 or my SGL Sr., which are two of the hardest stats to power I've experienced.

This means nothing for people that simply don't think the 007 is for them to a large degree. I do think you can understand that with any decent amp. But I was truly impressed with its performance on the T2. Changed how I view it for sure, which was already decently positive..I appreciate what it does. But after the T2, I finally understood why it's a favorite and endgame for some people.

As a 009 fan, did you feel it also scaled very well like the 007 or does it mostly cap at power levels lower than the T2?

Barring me swallowing a huge money pill and picking up an original Omega, it is looking like the 009 is going to end up my Stax endgame, now I'm just trying to figure out what to power it with optimally.

Nice time to buy a 009 though lol (saying that as someone that just picked one up). It is the culimation of New STAX before the Edifier sale and clearly serves as the baseline for their future phone development, so I'm happy enough to own one at a far more reasonable price than $5250 or even $3000ish. Hope the hype around the new ones is legit, let's see.

Agreed, 009 is an insane deal right now for sub $2k on the secondhand market. It easily has comparable technical performance to everything in the $4-6k range.

 

[number1sixerfan]

As a 009 fan, did you feel it also scaled very well like the 007 or does it mostly cap at power levels lower than the T2?

Barring me swallowing a huge money pill and picking up an original Omega, it is looking like the 009 is going to end up my Stax endgame, now I'm just trying to figure out what to power it with optimally.

The 009 is fantastic out of the T2. I know it and the Susvara probably better than any other headphones sans the SGL Sr. That said, I honestly wouldn't spring for the T2 *just* for it. The 009 also happens to sound really good out of my backup Stax ups, it's just easily powered more than others.

I would say you should look at the Aeras, as it's a fraction of the cost of the T2, but has a very similar sound that mates really well with the 009, adding a nicely needed warmth (warmer than the T2 btw) while still being technically proficient. If you really love the natural detail oriented qualities of the 009 and want to accentuate them however, I'd probably look at the BHSE and never look back. (not sure what you're using now)

 

[tjlindle]

The 009 is fantastic out of the T2. I know it and the Susvara probably better than any other headphones sans the SGL Sr. That said, I honestly wouldn't spring for the T2 *just* for it. The 009 also happens to sound really good out of my backup Stax ups, it's just easily powered more than others.

I would say you should look at the Aeras, as it's a fraction of the cost of the T2, but has a very similar sound that mates really well with the 009, adding a nicely needed warmth (warmer than the T2 btw) while still being technically proficient. If you really love the natural detail oriented qualities of the 009 and want to accentuate them however, I'd probably look at the BHSE and never look back. (not sure what you're using now)

Awesome thanks - Aeras has been on my shortlist to demo, I need to see if there'll be one at CanJam NYC. I'm probably going to bring my 009BK and see how many amps I can hear it out of if possible.

Until recently I was running a regular 009 with a KGSSHV and I was very happy with the technical performance but not as much with the tonality. Switching to the BK helped as it is just a touch warmer, then I swapped the KGSSHV out for an SR-X+ DIY and that made it much warmer as well. I'm not as enthusiastic about the "amp-rolling" side of things vs buying and trying different headphones, so I think I'm going to just stick with the SR-X+ and do one more final upgrade to the Aeras or whatever else it may end up being.

My dream is a T2 with a normal bias port, I want to hear the NB Lambda with that much juice

 

[number1sixerfan]

Awesome thanks - Aeras has been on my shortlist to demo, I need to see if there'll be one at CanJam NYC. I'm probably going to bring my 009BK and see how many amps I can hear it out of if possible.

Until recently I was running a regular 009 with a KGSSHV and I was very happy with the technical performance but not as much with the tonality. Switching to the BK helped as it is just a touch warmer, then I swapped the KGSSHV out for an SR-X+ DIY and that made it much warmer as well. I'm not as enthusiastic about the "amp-rolling" side of things vs buying and trying different headphones, so I think I'm going to just stick with the SR-X+ and do one more final upgrade to the Aeras or whatever else it may end up being.

My dream is a T2 with a normal bias port, I want to hear the NB Lambda with that much juice

In this case I would definitely say try to check out the Aeras. You'd probably love the combo.

 

[13candles]

What’s the best amp for the x9000? Or atleast top 3? Where does a more entry KGST stand?

I have one that just arrived from dealer. Waiting on my decision on the amp.

Greetings,

Barring the usual suspects like the T2, Carbon, BHSE or the "newer" Grand Cayman, i personally feel that "best" is relatively subjective and it all boils down to system synergy and personal preference. But if one were to judge by the price of each then yes, all of the above cost a pretty penny or two

Recently, after many years i have finally purchased my estat rig (X9000 + Srm-700S) and i couldnt be happier. I chose to not go the 3rd party amp route only because i do not have access in auditioning any from where im at; and personal experience has taught me never to purchase blindly ever again.

I have never heard the KGST. Only the Mjolnir Carbon CC + 007mk1+ Dave and the BHSE + 009 + Holo Spring Lvl3 which was eons ago. Thought the former sounded too thin and uninvolving but the latter was pretty superb. But yes that was a one off thingy and years ago and way before the X9K came along.

If there is a store near you where you are able to audition Stax own amps i suggest you try them because i feel a couple of them would suffice and i strongly believe its better that you audition with your own ears to see if its what you like. No disrespect to the 3rd party amps out there but i too would love to own a T2 or BHSE one day but till i get to audition any, its a rather heavy investment which calls for being prudent.

Other than that, i hope you find an amp that matches the X9K to your preference and you end up enjoying them as much as i do!

 

[alota]

The 009/S is at its lowpoint right now in terms of desirability, plus the general headphone market seems down (a reflection of the general economic situation I guess as compared to like the printing money days just past).

Look at stuff from the early 2000s on the Omega or R10 or even HE90, they weren't as respected at that point and their status seems to have grown the longer they stayed out of production, and the prices increased (they got rid of the old for sale forum but if you were here on head-fi in like 2004 you could pick up R10s and Omegas for like 2000 bucks or less lol)

It will be interesting to see what happens the 009, I do think it will be considered a classic eventually, if it already isn't considered one, but it will never get the treatment that the Omega or R10 or HE90 or whatever got at least price wise, because those phones came at a time where there wasn't a market for such ridiculously priced headphones, and they sold in the hundreds of units. Same with maybe not as highly regarded phones at the time that still had low volumes like the Qualia and HP1000 and L3000 which skyrocketed pricewise because there weren't many units made. Even for the later 007, the MK1 sold in far less quantities than the MK2, especially those 70xxx units (I guess now the 71xxx are the big things reputation wise?), and have held their prices and started to creep up.

There are just too many 009s around, there will probably be too many X9000s around soon enough as well. They may get a classic treatment, but I doubt they'll ever be the big money collector items like the nineties phones.

Nice time to buy a 009 though lol (saying that as someone that just picked one up). It is the culimation of New STAX before the Edifier sale and clearly serves as the baseline for their future phone development, so I'm happy enough to own one at a far more reasonable price than $5250 or even $3000ish. Hope the hype around the new ones is legit, let's see.

True. I bought 009 because the price now is good. But i remember many people in the past calling 009 the queen...

 

[padam]

The 009/S is at its lowpoint right now in terms of desirability, plus the general headphone market seems down (a reflection of the general economic situation I guess as compared to like the printing money days just past).

Look at stuff from the early 2000s on the Omega or R10 or even HE90, they weren't as respected at that point and their status seems to have grown the longer they stayed out of production, and the prices increased (they got rid of the old for sale forum but if you were here on head-fi in like 2004 you could pick up R10s and Omegas for like 2000 bucks or less lol)

The first two were always well respected. The Omega wasn't, but only because production end very quickly because of bankruptcy, but there are a handful of contemporary reviews, which are quite well-written and always spoke very highly of it (even with the lower-cost SRM-T1S energiser).

Yeah, but at that time you could get a lot of other things for 2000 bucks...
One could have bought a nice house for a cost of an HE90 system back then. Nowadays, not really.
(One could get a nice car for the cost of an Omega or R10. While that is still possible today - maintaining it is a completely different matter.)

So one could argue that these "inflated" prices are still relative bargains compared to the value of other things, like property.

And the headphone market is not down. There is just infinitely more options, skewing the demand/supply ratios.
If it was, Youtube channels wouldn't have much audience, and the opposite is true (irrespective of their credibility).

 

[tabness]

The first two were always well respected. The Omega wasn't, but only because production end very quickly because of bankruptcy, but there are a handful of contemporary reviews, which are quite well-written and always spoke very highly of it (even with the lower-cost SRM-T1S energiser).

Yeah, but at that time you could get a lot of other things for 2000 bucks...
One could have bought a nice house for a cost of an HE90 system back then. Nowadays, not really.
(One could get a nice car for the cost of an Omega or R10. While that is still possible today - maintaining it is a completely different matter.)

So one could argue that these "inflated" prices are still relative bargains compared to the value of other things, like property.

And the headphone market is not down. There is just infinitely more options, skewing the demand/supply ratios.
If it was, Youtube channels wouldn't have much audience, and the opposite is true (irrespective of their credibility).

I don't know about other countries but the Omega had a price of about $3000 new in the US in the early nineties, that wouldn't buy you a trailer back then, I don't think any new cars either. Much less the used prices that dipped below $2000 in the early 2000s as house prices soared in the country. Even the Orpheus system at $12900 could only net you the jankiest hoopty new lol

Yep the headphone market has soared in general, I was more speaking of the second hand prices, especially collectable vintage ones (when I sprung for my R10 and Omega I dropped 5 figures each on them... nicer than average units for sure, but the prices have dropped since then a bit to my chagrin lol)

 

[padam]

I don't know about other countries but the Omega had a price of about $3000 new in the US in the early nineties, that wouldn't buy you a trailer back then, I don't think any new cars either. Much less the used prices that dipped below $2000 in the early 2000s as house prices soared in the country. Even the Orpheus system at $12900 could only net you the jankiest hoopty new lol

Yep the headphone market has soared in general, I was more speaking of the second hand prices, especially collectable vintage ones (when I sprung for my R10 and Omega I dropped 5 figures each on them... nicer than average units for sure, but the prices have dropped since then a bit to my chagrin lol)

Don't know about US, probably region-dependent but the point is clear, even if it was just a portion of that property, still carried more value than a headphone.

I always find it amusing people getting shell-shocked by the value of a high-end headphone, yet they've don't raise an eyelid regarding the price of other things which have gotten way more expensive.

Well it's down to the general perception. If a YouTube channel gave a glowing review on any of these vintage items with a "GET THEM WHILE YOU CAN!!!" clickbait in the title, I am sure interest would rise up again. (The same has already happened with vintage lenses, that are being snapped up for movie productions.)
But they are indirectly funded by the manufactures and/or audio shops with affiliate links, so that's just not in their interest.
(Or maybe there are simply other options, I may have been here for 15+ years but I still haven't heard most of the stuff out there, but the way some of them are inconsistently portrayed makes me think that it would be a waste of time anyway. Once a 'reference' is established, anything else is just a deviation from that.)

 

[Chefguru]

I don't see why the 009 will soar in price. There was a very large product run (at least 5x if not 10x the sr-omega), it has was always been a polarizing headphone, and the 009s has been mostly preferred and is still available. There is a sense that the 009s, like the 007 will be a long-term model. I can however see the 009 and especially the 009bk rising to match the 009s given it's a rarer version.

The estat I would anticipate having a possible bump in price would be if Audeze decided to drop the CRBN instead of furthering the lineage. (The LCD-4 might also already be appreciating.)

The big difference with the sr-omega/he90/r10 is that many people (including myself) believe that they are arguably the best headphones ever made. You don't often see the growth on the used market without the status.

 

[tabness]

I don't see why the 009 will soar in price. There was a very large product run (at least 5x if not 10x the sr-omega), it has was always been a polarizing headphone, and the 009s has been mostly preferred and is still available. There is a sense that the 009s, like the 007 will be a long-term model. I can however see the 009 and especially the 009bk rising to match the 009s given it's a rarer version.

The estat I would anticipate having a possible bump in price would be if Audeze decided to drop the CRBN instead of furthering the lineage. (The LCD-4 might also already be appreciating.)

The big difference with the sr-omega/he90/r10 is that many people (including myself) believe that they are arguably the best headphones ever made. You don't often see the growth on the used market without the status.

As @alota alluded to earlier though, the 009 was also considered the best headphone in the world by many earlier, and it seemed to enjoy a longer run than many of the other phones that briefly get that fad status.

There's no question in my mind that the R10 and Omega and HE90 have their scarcity to thank for a good part of their reputation, it obviously isn't the whole story (see the Qualia as a counterpoint that is scarce and expensive and doesn't carry the same prestige), but I definitely think if we had thousands of these phones around instead of 1200ish, 600ish, and 300ish, they'd be regarded at least a little less favorably.

 

[Chefguru]

As @alota alluded to earlier though, the 009 was also considered the best headphone in the world by many earlier, and it seemed to enjoy a longer run than many of the other phones that briefly get that fad status.

There's no question in my mind that the R10 and Omega and HE90 have their scarcity to thank for a good part of their reputation, it obviously isn't the whole story (see the Qualia as a counterpoint that is scarce and expensive and doesn't carry the same prestige), but I definitely think if we had thousands of these phones around instead of 1200ish, 600ish, and 300ish, they'd be regarded at least a little less favorably.

I was one of the first people to own a qualia. It came out in my senior year of high school and I worked at a retail store over the summer to buy one lol. The issue is that the headband was non-adjustable and the seal had a big impact on the sound - when it did fit correctly, it was absolutely in the running for best ever.

I also remember the 009 release very well. Plagued with driver imbalances - but the supply was low and it took a lot of people time to get theirs. People hailed them as being the most resolving headphones of all time, but they did not do as well at mini-meets where several found they preferred their 007/omega/he90.

Edit: see this 2011 meet
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sr-009-vs-orpheus-sr-omega-o2s.570050/page-10

"Our unanimous consensus was that Orpheus was still the best sounding headphone. For second place, most of us liked SR007MK1. SR009 came in third and followed by SR-Omega mesh stators. "

 

[tabness]

I was one of the first people to own a qualia. It came out in my senior year of high school and I worked at a retail store over the summer to buy one lol. The issue is that the headband was non-adjustable and the seal had a big impact on the sound - when it did fit correctly, it was absolutely in the running for best ever.

I also remember the 009 release very well. Plagued with driver imbalances - but the supply was low and it took a lot of people time to get theirs. People hailed them as being the most resolving headphones of all time, but they did not do as well at mini-meets where several found they preferred their 007/omega/he90.

Edit: see this 2011 meet
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sr-009-vs-orpheus-sr-omega-o2s.570050/page-10

"Our unanimous consensus was that Orpheus was still the best sounding headphone. For second place, most of us liked SR007MK1. SR009 came in third and followed by SR-Omega mesh stators. "

Sure but I'll point out that there are a lot of alternative opinions in favor of the 009 the 2011 to 2015 timeframe as well.

Yeah the thing that pisses me most about STAX is how they still haven't solved channel imbalances at this point, I get the issues but it's been 60 years of research into this stuff, make them more resilient against overdriving lol (I'll give this point in favor to the 007, you rarely hear about a channel imbalance on those phones, probably due in some part to how difficult they are to drive and thus overdrive lol)