[Hubert481]

So you sell your HE1?

 

[simmconn]

I've driven my X9000 off of my 300W monoblocks. It's excellent. And other than 10 minutes at a canjam with a BHSE and Grand Cayman, I unfortunately don't have any actual estat amps to compare it to. I can say the X9000 with this setup generates some of the best sound out of all the headphones in my signature so I highly doubt I'm missing much vs a dedicated estat amp, perhaps even gaining some things.

The transformer will likely become the bottleneck, regardless if driven by a 200W amp or a 300W one. Compared to a well executed direct-drive amp, you are not missing much except for the rolloff and limited output swings at the top and bottom ends; and you gain some things such as more harmonics (especially at the bottom end), intermodulations, the inevitable phase shift due to inductive coupling and perhaps some ultrasonic peaking if not well damped.

 

[BassicScience]

The transformer will likely become the bottleneck, regardless if driven by a 200W amp or a 300W one. Compared to a well executed direct-drive amp, you are not missing much except for the rolloff and limited output swings at the top and bottom ends; and you gain some things such as more harmonics (especially at the bottom end), intermodulations, the inevitable phase shift due to inductive coupling and perhaps some ultrasonic peaking if not well damped.

FWIW, when I compared the Eksonic Aeras vs. the NAD M22 V2 ==> iESL (driving primarily the STAX X9000), the only notable difference was some treble roll-off with the latter chain. Besides sounding a bit brighter, the Aeras had subjectively better soundstage depth and layering as a result. There was nothing resembling bass harmonics, IMD, or phase shift that was perceptible to me, and the NAD/iESL combo was highly enjoyable in its own right. I haven't heard any other estat transformer boxes, so I can't say anything in the abstract other than to agree that the transformers will be the bottleneck. A good biasing circuit is also important, and the iESL uses a capacitor bank which gets refreshed every thirty seconds and is otherwise disconnected from the power supply.

 

[DougD]

My perception ... as a person who bought an SRX-Mk3 new in 1978 but has never progressed beyond various Lambdas (Lambdae?) to the higher tier Stax (007/009/X9000/Omega) ... is that the experienced people with the upper tier Stax (or similar) headphones all seem to have dedicated e-stat amps ... and the questions about using a transformer-based solution come predominently from people who aspire to up their headphone game to the TOTL level without spending as much.

I've never convinced myself I'm willing to pay what it takes to get to e-stats TOTL.

But I keep inching closer. Increasingly I'm thinking that the best time to step up to the next level of enjoyment would be sometime before I die. Tick tick tick.

 

[Chefguru]

The transformer will likely become the bottleneck, regardless if driven by a 200W amp or a 300W one. Compared to a well executed direct-drive amp, you are not missing much except for the rolloff and limited output swings at the top and bottom ends; and you gain some things such as more harmonics (especially at the bottom end), intermodulations, the inevitable phase shift due to inductive coupling and perhaps some ultrasonic peaking if not well damped.

This

 

[Omerg1]

Man i'd love to hear the x9000 on Eksonic T2. I'd pay money just to get an hour with that combo.

 

[gammi]

The transformer will likely become the bottleneck, regardless if driven by a 200W amp or a 300W one. Compared to a well executed direct-drive amp, you are not missing much except for the rolloff and limited output swings at the top and bottom ends; and you gain some things such as more harmonics (especially at the bottom end), intermodulations, the inevitable phase shift due to inductive coupling and perhaps some ultrasonic peaking if not well damped.

Appreciate all the extra color. I think the takeaway here is we agree it's "not missing much"

I would love a showdown between my $3500 Bliss or $2500 Van Alstine monoblocks + $500 transformer box against a $10k direct drive amp. I strongly suspect the differences are minimal, as you say as well. Also I question the treble roll off, even the subpar transformers in the SRD-7 don't roll off until about 18k, at which point I doubt many of us can hear.

 

[simmconn]

Appreciate all the extra color. I think the takeaway here is we agree it's "not missing much"

I would love a showdown between my $3500 Bliss or $2500 Van Alstine monoblocks + $500 transformer box against a $10k direct drive amp. I strongly suspect the differences are minimal, as you say as well. Also I question the treble roll off, even the subpar transformers in the SRD-7 don't roll off until about 18k, at which point I doubt many of us can hear.

Well, different people pay attention to different aspects of the sound and of the music. So what are considered by someone as ‘a lot of difference’ may be ‘not much difference’ or even ‘no difference’ by someone else. But physics is objective. What a transformer adds and subtracts from the signal are unarguably there. They just may or may not be important to a specific individual.
Also, human hearing are not black-and-white. Someone who fails to hear 18kHz monotone in a hearing test doesn’t necessarily mean that a playback system’s frequency and phase response above 18kHz no longer makes a difference for him/her.

 

[tabness]

So while I've mostly been out of the STAX game for a while, just keeping my little SR 003MK2, earlier this summer I picked up some vintage STAX. Main thing was that I found a new old stock SR 30 Professional and I really enjoy it, but I also snagged a SR 1 and a SR 3 (the "New SR 3") as well as a good old T1 to drive them. Hadn't pulled either of these old school STAX out out until today though.

The New SR 3 is pretty nice, I'm listening to it now, a pleasant enough sound (though basically my SR 30 Pro does the same thing but with a little more of that electrostatic clarity and gets a bit more of the lows and highs without losing the natural mids). Has a channel imbalance though, the T1 dual volume thing handles it nicely. Any chance the channel imbalance goes away if I play it a bit? (thing is in real nice cosmetic condition except the dirty cable so it has probably been sitting for years)

However, for the SR 1, I got a couple issues before I can use it. It needs pads as apparently the pads disintegrate on these models. More interestingly, this seems to be one of the early batches of the SR 1, it has the metal mesh baffle instead of the white plastic baffle which was on later ones.

My concern is that I've heard that the early (prototype?) versions of the SR 1 ran on a bias voltage of 150V, and even the later ones ran on 200V. Can I plug this thing safely into the normal socket of the T1S?

 

[gammi]

Well, different people pay attention to different aspects of the sound and of the music. So what are considered by someone as ‘a lot of difference’ may be ‘not much difference’ or even ‘no difference’ by someone else. But physics is objective. What a transformer adds and subtracts from the signal are unarguably there. They just may or may not be important to a specific individual.
Also, human hearing are not black-and-white. Someone who fails to hear 18kHz monotone in a hearing test doesn’t necessarily mean that a playback system’s frequency and phase response above 18kHz no longer makes a difference for him/her.

Not at all arguing the physics, just saying I suspect the end result of those objective changes in terms of musical enjoyment is probably closer with transformers than many on here would think. It's already my best setup vs some pretty high end combos like Susvara + Holo Bliss, etc, I'd be quite impressed if a direct drive could squeeze out much more.

Here's an example of Decware + iFi energizer setup over the Carbon:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-iesl-the-official-thread.852364/page-48#post-17472387

I may actually buy a Novem with the intent of blind testing them and find out myself.

 

[Chefguru]

Not at all arguing the physics, just saying I suspect the end result of those objective changes in terms of musical enjoyment is probably closer with transformers than many on here would think. It's already my best setup vs some pretty high end combos like Susvara + Holo Bliss, etc, I'd be quite impressed if a direct drive could squeeze out much more.

Here's an example of Decware + iFi energizer setup over the Carbon:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-iesl-the-official-thread.852364/page-48#post-17472387

I may actually buy a Novem with the intent of blind testing them and find out myself.

If you're talking about the mjolnir Novem, that's not a very powerful amp, it has a very small niche purpose in the market. It seems you have liked a few of my posts about it- so I assume you're up to speed. I would bet this amp will not sound that different than a tube amp + transformer situation. In the x9k thread I have updated impressions of how I found the megatron to wipe the floor the with the novem in direct comparison.

As for all the conversation about transformers. It's a very simple thing, they are not the ideal component to pass audio signal through. Of course, this is sort of normal for dynamic headphones and also required when you are converting a single ended output signal to balanced (like the Frank Cooter DHT 845 e-stat amp).

If you take a balanced direct-drive amp, like a carbon/BHSE/MT/T2, you should have more electrical current. If you do enough digging you'll find that standard estat load is like 120pf which requires as much as 18-20ma to complete a full votlage swing at 20khz. This effects both the low and the high, not just the "18khz" number stated before. For the 007 this is really apparent with "boomy" bass on weak amps [ like the novem]. The KGSSHV which is only at around 8ma @400v seems to do a pretty good job even handling the 007, so I guess this would be a nice set point for "acceptable" current. The more powerful amps take it further, which for me is worth the extra money.

 

[gammi]

If you're talking about the mjolnir Novem, that's not a very powerful amp, it has a very small niche purpose in the market. It seems you have liked a few of my posts about it- so I assume you're up to speed. I would bet this amp will not sound that different than a tube amp + transformer situation. In the x9k thread I have updated impressions of how I found the megatron to wipe the floor the with the novem in direct comparison.

As for all the conversation about transformers. It's a very simple thing, they are not the ideal component to pass audio signal through. Of course, this is sort of normal for dynamic headphones and also required when you are converting a single ended output signal to balanced (like the Frank Cooter DHT 845 e-stat amp).

If you take a balanced direct-drive amp, like a carbon/BHSE/MT/T2, you should have more electrical current. If you do enough digging you'll find that standard estat load is like 120pf which requires as much as 18-20ma to complete a full votlage swing at 20khz. This effects both the low and the high, not just the "18khz" number stated before. For the 007 this is really apparent with "boomy" bass on weak amps [ like the novem]. The KGSSHV which is only at around 8ma @400v seems to do a pretty good job even handling the 007, so I guess this would be a nice set point for "acceptable" current. The more powerful amps take it further, which for me is worth the extra money.

Yeah, your posts about the Novem drew me to it, I would only be using it for my X9000, not my 007 and you seemed to enjoy the synergy between X9000 and Novem. I had missed the update about the Megatron, thanks for following up on that. I'll consider the Megatron but that's a sizable cost increase on what largely amounts to an intellectual pursuit to test the sound differences between direct and transformer. As for the transformer comment, I get that they are not ideal, but neither are tubes and we love those.

Some thoughts:
-Lundahl 1630-PP is listed as having a max current of 40mA assuming I'm reading the datasheet correctly. There are two max currents listed but even the lowest is 9mA which is still better than the KGSSHV that drives the 007 well, and thus is very capable of handling the more efficient X9000.
-From my brief reading transformers can actually cause an increase in treble due to leakage inductance. Many complain treble is rolled off with the X9000 so if this is the case, this may actually be synergistic with the X9000 and explain why I enjoy this setup so much. Maybe @simmconn can chime in on this leakage inductance phenomenon.

Lastly I think there's huge value in the fact that transformers allow the use of the entire world of amplifiers. Even if we assume transformers always degrade the sound (which I don't think is the case), the total package may be a better whole since it allows from a selection of 1000 amplifiers vs 10 different estat amps.

In other words if we assume an arbitrary 10% quality loss via the transformer, we can still come ahead if we combine it with an amp that is 95% synergistic with the headphones vs a direct drive amp that may only be 80% synergistic.

 

[XVampireX]

Appreciate all the extra color. I think the takeaway here is we agree it's "not missing much"

I would love a showdown between my $3500 Bliss or $2500 Van Alstine monoblocks + $500 transformer box against a $10k direct drive amp. I strongly suspect the differences are minimal, as you say as well. Also I question the treble roll off, even the subpar transformers in the SRD-7 don't roll off until about 18k, at which point I doubt many of us can hear.

How's X9000 on Bliss+Transformer, and also how does it work (How to connect) ?

 

[Chefguru]

Yeah, your posts about the Novem drew me to it, I would only be using it for my X9000, not my 007 and you seemed to enjoy the synergy between X9000 and Novem. I had missed the update about the Megatron, thanks for following up on that. I'll consider the Megatron but that's a sizable cost increase on what largely amounts to an intellectual pursuit to test the sound differences between direct and transformer. As for the transformer comment, I get that they are not ideal, but neither are tubes and we love those.

Some thoughts:
-Lundahl 1630-PP is listed as having a max current of 40mA assuming I'm reading the datasheet correctly. There are two max currents listed but even the lowest is 9mA which is still better than the KGSSHV that drives the 007 well, and thus is very capable of handling the more efficient X9000.
-From my brief reading transformers can actually cause an increase in treble due to leakage inductance. Many complain treble is rolled off with the X9000 so if this is the case, this may actually be synergistic with the X9000 and explain why I enjoy this setup so much. Maybe @simmconn can chime in on this leakage inductance phenomenon.

Lastly I think there's huge value in the fact that transformers allow the use of the entire world of amplifiers. Even if we assume transformers always degrade the sound (which I don't think is the case), the total package may be a better whole since it allows from a selection of 1000 amplifiers vs 10 different estat amps.

In other words if we assume an arbitrary 10% quality loss via the transformer, we can still come ahead if we combine it with an amp that is 95% synergistic with the headphones vs a direct drive amp that may only be 80% synergistic.

There are a lot of variables at play when calculating how much current reaches the headphone. I think the reason you don't see people don't a lot of testing with transformers + a gambit of speaker amps is that you can acquire a carbon for as low as $3500, so chasing maximum optimization through some frankenstein setup given the clear engineering downside is likely not worth the time or effort.

 

[ToneItDown]

The LNS is much "sleepier" than the L500/L700 with less sibilance and more low-end. The "large" part of the driver is also forward facing on the LNS, which changes the orientation of the soundstage. On the carbon and megatron, the LNS has a very complete overall-sound with excellent balance between low-end and treble. I have heard many lambda, including some of the rarer ones like the Lambda pro from the 80s, and have concluded it sounds the closest of the lambda to neutral timber. It seems to require more energy to drive (this could be damping related) - for instance I had a friend's L700 and LNS off my megatron (which has 2 pro jacks) the other day and the 700 is louder at the same volume setting. In the LNS's best expression, which I found with the carbon, the LNS has excellent musicality and layering. It is not better than any of the omega models, but it does sound more "complete" and probably is a better studio monitor.

The L700 has a brighter, clearer sound, but is imo too fatiguing and thin. I don't find the L700 to scale very well, and mostly expresses the same signature on all of the amps I've heard it with.

Now the Sr-Lambda NB is a different story... I've only heard it once, but it has REALLY good dynamics and energy. I would say it's in a similar bucket as the he60. Less low-end than the LNS, but it packs a strong punch and will make all the hairs on the back of your head stand up with classical. Fantastic headphone.

which of the energizers do you say work best with these