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The Stax Thread III
Oct 14, 2015 at 12:40 PM Post #6,481 of 25,677
lan647 said:
 
If you hear the 007 mk1 as flobby, then you aren't driving them well... even with the 717 I have here, they sound very good. With a modified 717/727/007T or even better they sound fantastic and better than the 009 to my ears. Both headphones are great with fantastic detail and refinement, but the 007 is just more involving IMO. 
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I agree hear.  With the 007 mk1s on the BHSE there is no flabby bass at all that I've heard.  In fact, for the times I heard both the 007 mk1 and the 009 on the BHSE at the same time - I kinda liked the 007 mk1s on that amp best.  I still think the 009s are a superior headphone.  But it seems the BHSE was made for the 007 mk1s because they go together like a hat and a glove.
 
I have to reevaluate the 007 mk2s again once my amps get in, but if IIRC the 007 mk2 were more on the warm side compared to the 007 mk1s.  I will see, just how they differ.  
 
As far as DACs goes, once you get to a certain level of high end - In ways it really doesn't matter if it DS or R2R.  The Bricasti M1 is DS DAC and is no slouch not by far.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM Post #6,482 of 25,677
Try the Audio Note DAC 5 or the TotalDAC Dual. That is the next level IMO. Yes, some high end DS, but they leave me cold. But we all have different tastes....
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 12:50 PM Post #6,483 of 25,677
astrostar59 said:
  I was saying flabby in the bass. By that I mean (driven by my KGSShv) as slight bass bloat and hump, I guess around 80-120hz. Listen to the speed and texture of the bass in the 009. It is ruler flat to me, more texture and more tuneful. The 007 is lethargic and laboured compared. In isolation, the 007A sounds great on my KGSShv I agree. It is just the 009 has more transparency in the bass, along with texture. If we go into the midrange and treble it is the same.
 
I am convinced (I won't be swayed) that the 007 was designed around the DAC sound of the 1990-2000 era. The majority of DS DACs in use from that era are slightly bright and digital sounding. The 007 pulls them back to neutral and a warmer stance. But with a smooth and transparent DAC it is another layer in the way to me.
 
Anyway, it is great to have so many different views here. IMO it is taste, but also system synergy, as as you go up the levels the signature of each component gets more important and has more impact. The 007 is at a lower level than the 009 i.e. less resolving and less of everything - except the bass hump...
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My comment was in response to "Earspeakers". 

Two things. One, 007A and 007 mk1 are NOT the same. Secondly, you and I have had this conversation before and we'll just have to conclude that we have different views on the subject. If you like the 009 more, that's fantastic and I have zero problems with it. But if I'm not mistaken you're using a tube DAC, which in my head means there is a good chance you have a different-flavored front end than mine. At the end of the day, there is not a HUGE difference between the 007 mk1 (again, not 007A or 007 SZ3, different headphones) and the 009 when comparing the two directly, and a tonal shift in the signal chain may make wonders for the 009, filling up that bass a little bit and toning down the brightness a little bit. The same rig may have a negative effect on the 007, causing it too sound too dark and full, muffling up some detail maybe.
 
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 12:51 PM Post #6,484 of 25,677
I owned the TotalDac Dual at the same time I owned the Bricasti M1.  The TotalDac Dual cost more than the M1.  Both does things better than the other.  Being harsh, hard, strident, shrill is not something that either does.
 
I heard the Audio Note 5 signature at an audio show in DC.  At the time it was one  the best DAC I ever heard.  The cost of that DAC is more than I'm willing to pay.  Today the EMM DAC2X is the best DAC I've heard.  That's saying something, because I've had more than a few to come across my door step.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 1:38 PM Post #6,485 of 25,677
lan647 said:
  If you hear the 007 mk1 as flobby, then you aren't driving them well... even with the 717 I have here, they sound very good. With a modified 717/727/007T or even better they sound fantastic and better than the 009 to my ears. Both headphones are great with fantastic detail and refinement, but the 007 is just more involving IMO. 
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Using them with KGST/KGSSHV/717/600/DA-80 (transformer coupled) etc etc, and with a Pawel HP-1 mk2 and mk3. Hard to argue to I don't have enough Stax amps  to test with 
wink.gif
 
 
Anyhow flobby is just a word, could mean anything. I use it in comparison to the other Stax. Listening to them all on a large variety of equipment as I do I hear the 007's and Nova in a niche that Stax otherwise stayed out of. The polar opposite of that is the 4070 which they also only did once. Regardless the point being on the Stax factory tour the leadership expressed that their aim is transparency, and if you listen to all of their gear I think it's clear that has been their goal, with the 007/Nova in a category of their own.   
 
The 007 1/2 and Nova aren't my absolute favorites but I listen to them a lot, along with the rest. Obviously many others like them quite a lot more. 
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 2:22 PM Post #6,486 of 25,677
astrostar59 said:
  I disagree. Many do as well, some don't. It comes down to exposure to higher end DACs or R-2R IMO. DS mid range do I agree sound the same i. 'hifi' cold and harsh ( IMO).
 
Ask the Yggy guys or TotalDAC over on the other threads, see what they think about how good (better) a DAC can sound and the affect on the final music you hear.
 
IMO the DAC + The Amplifier + The Phones all affect the sound in equal measure. The DAC has a huge influence on treble quality and soundstage, dynamics. In fact anything that is relevant to an amplifier also applies to a DAC, because basically a DAC is a pre-amplifier with a digital board added. The problem is many manufacturers don't get it, they design a half decent digital board with pathetically weak gain stage and poor power supplies. We all know how that affects the sound.....
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So the Yggdrasil lives up to your standards? Because that's the only higher-end DAC I plan on getting, until I can afford the MSB SELECT DAC in the distant future. I'm also wondering about which specs I should be looking at as regards the preamp issue.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 3:47 PM Post #6,487 of 25,677
It's kinda of strange to see so many of the STAX crowd not be privy to the advantages of high end DACs.  Yes it makes a huge difference especially when you play at these levels as the tonality of high end DACs differ.  It goes far beyond the design of the DAC or the chips to say whether a DAC is good or not.  You'd have to audition yourself and see if it makes sense in your specific chain to yield the best results.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 4:21 PM Post #6,488 of 25,677
Although this post probably belongs on a different thread, in it does involve the use of my 009/BHSE, which is.
 
When first getting my source which is an SACD/DAC, I planned only to use it with Discs, however after a suggestion and help from friend astrostar59, I started using a MacMini as music server with that sources DAC, and since doing that I've only been listening to CD's occasionally, so I feel my next audio piece will more than likely be a DAC only.
 
Now while somewhat premature, I've been looking at different DAC's and the one that is said to surpass my SACD/DAC [ K-01 ] in SQ, that I also like the look of is the CH Precision C1.
Apparently that DAC users 4 Burr-Brown 1704 R-2R chips, and will also work with my MacMini.
 
The UK distributor of CH Precision is in Sheffield, which is around 25 miles from where I live, so I've been in contact with them and have arranged a home audition with the CH-P C1 on the 23rd of this month, so I'll be using that C1 DAC with my 009/BHSE.
In this audition I'll obviously be comparing the C1 with my K-01, but I'm doing it mainly to find out whether the C1 is worth saving for, and if it is,  then I've got some saving to do, and for sometime, however headphone listening is a very big passion of mine, so I'd be more than happy to start saving.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 5:10 PM Post #6,491 of 25,677
david1961 said:
  Although this post probably belongs on a different thread, in it does involve the use of my 009/BHSE, which is.
 
When first getting my source which is an SACD/DAC, I planned only to use it with Discs, however after a suggestion and help from friend astrostar59, I started using a MacMini as music server with that sources DAC, and since doing that I've only been listening to CD's occasionally, so I feel my next audio piece will more than likely be a DAC only.
 
Now while somewhat premature, I've been looking at different DAC's and the one that is said to surpass my SACD/DAC [ K-01 ] in SQ, that I also like the look of is the CH Precision C1.
Apparently that DAC users 4 Burr-Brown 1704 R-2R chips, and will also work with my MacMini.
 
The UK distributor of CH Precision is in Sheffield, which is around 25 miles from where I live, so I've been in contact with them and have arranged a home audition with the CH-P C1 on the 23rd of this month, so I'll be using that C1 DAC with my 009/BHSE.
In this audition I'll obviously be comparing the C1 with my K-01, but I'm doing it mainly to find out whether the C1 is worth saving for, and if it is,  then I've got some saving to do, and for sometime, however headphone listening is a very big passion of mine, so I'd be more than happy to start saving.
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This should prove to be a very interesting comparison.  Looking forward to it!
 
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