The Stax Thread III

[Earspeakers]

My only real complaint is how they press against the ear lobes. Obviously nearness to the ears is one of the parameters they can easily adjust, and I would suspect it's the close distance that gives them their punch. The Omegas are farther away giving a more relaxed presentation I believe. 

 

[xantus]

I've had my 404s for 11 years now.. original headband and pads still holding strong... that arc of green oxidation on the grills where it touches my ear.. I like the closeness. you feel the music while you hear it.. when i get haircuts I shave an inch around my ears cause I feel a good portion of the sound comes through bone conduction.

ive heard Orpheus, 007 on blue Hawaii... I know more refinement is possible.. but life has surface noise. I gained a new level of respect for how resolving these things are when i started aligning stylus with them.

 

[David1961]

More recently I head David's Esoteric K-01 with the BHSE and 009s and my own KGSShv and it was very good, probably on par with my Audio Note DAC 4.1 but with a different flavour, possibly colder? I am not sure as I haven't heard them together.
Anyway, for anyone looking for a very detailed and smooth DAC that sounds realistic I would look at the Non oversampling DACs. They just seems to work for me.

Sorry off topic there, but related, as we talk a lot here about the phone here naturally, it is the Stax thread, but whith Stax phones being so detailed and 'close' to the music, the source becomes very important IMO.

I like a tube / SS combo, which in my case is the BHSE / K-01 ( I know the BHSE is hybrid, but it still uses tubes ) and Julian's is the Audio Note DAC 4.1 and KGSSHV.
So while I haven't heard Julian's DAC, I feel with it having tubes it will probably sound better with his KGSSHV, than my K-01 would with that amp.
While I like a tube SS combo, when I first heard my K-01 / BHSE with my 009's, I wasn't happy with certain songs in my collection, in fact I was so disappointed I was going to sell my 009's and get some 007's, but since using the PH tubes I couldn't be happier with my 009's.

In hearing Julian's KGSSHV with my K-01 along with my BHSE driving the 009's, the KGSSHV sounded very good, but because I'm not a basshead I prefer the BHSE.

 

[astrostar59]

I like a tube / SS combo, which in my case is the BHSE / K-01 ( I know the BHSE is hybrid, but it still uses tubes ) and Julian's is the Audio Note DAC 4.1 and KGSSHV.
So while I haven't heard Julian's DAC, I feel with it having tubes it will probably sound better with his KGSSHV, than my K-01 would with that amp.
While I like a tube SS combo, when I first heard my K-01 / BHSE with my 009's, I wasn't happy with certain songs in my collection, in fact I was so disappointed I was going to sell my 009's and get some 007's, but since using the PH tubes I couldn't be happier with my 009's.

In hearing Julian's KGSSHV with my K-01 along with my BHSE driving the 009's, the KGSSHV sounded very good, but because I'm not a basshead I prefer the BHSE.

I agree 100% David. And I think, well in my listening over the years and various systems I have built up, having tubes somewhere in the chain is required to sound 'right'. Digital is so detailed, and possibly slightly to bright? or at least cold, without tubes it all gets too much.
 
System Synergy
And this theory of 'system balancing' or 'system synergy' IMO is what ends up getting you a system that you looks forward to coming home to use, as opposed to casual listening. It also applies as much to a top end speaker system as well. Mid range and lower end gear has speakers that are 'kind' to the source or 'designed to fit', and have a softening built in. Manufactures won't admit it, but having heard sub 2k speakers and 20k speakers invariably you get more detail and less smear with the higher end gear. This in turn presents problems if you bolt it to a mid to low end source i.e it grates on your nerves.
 
Which comes full circle, it makes perfect sense to spend equal amounts on the headphones, the amp and the DAC. Otherwise a fatiguing system may be the result IMO.
 
Where to put the tubes?
That is an interesting subject. I had 300B SET power amps for my speakers, but they generated a lot of heat and I had some tubes damage the amps, thus got fed up and sold them. Tubes in the BHSE are not driven as hard I don't think, so a different situation. Tubes in a pre-amp can be good, to tame and humanise a DAC. Or tubes in the DAC can be great as well. Pre-amp and DAC tubes last years, so less hassle, and they have a dramatic effect on the sound as they are at the source when the signals are tiny.
 
My speaker set-up has a tubed DAC then a passive pre then a solid state Plinius amp and sounds great.
The 009s have the same DAC then drive directly the KGSShv and then 009s (no pre-amp).
 
David has the K-01 driving his BHSE direct so again no extra pre-amp, only the Esoteric unit gain stage and it just works brilliantly.
The less components in the chain the better, and if one of those has tubes, it seems to work.

 

[kevin gilmore]

someone asked me a question a while back about dacs that output a bit of dc.
 
finally got around to testing it.
 
kgsshv in balanced mode ONLY, has a common mode rejection range of +/-2.5v
maybe a bit more.
 
So if your balanced dac sits at 1.3V, and both sides are identical, it should actually work.

 

[edstrelow]

  How about some Lambda Love on the thread? I've been listening to a 207 Basic, 307 Signature, 404 Sig, 404LE Sig and Lambda Nova Signature. I've got a Lambda Signature coming in too - reputably the thinnest diagram in the lineup (1 um), and the source of the supposed "Stax Etch". Am very curious to hear. 
 
The 207 is quite thick and punchy. They're also accident prone. I got this pair by accident from PJ, and instead of sending them back he gave me a deal on them to keep, so I use them for test headphones with my new amps. They also had the only 'snap crackle pop' I've heard with Stax. Shortly after I got them, I'd take my eyeglasses off while listening and got crackling from it. Yikes! It wasn't moving around that much and I didn't poke anything. I think they don't get a lot of QA at the factory. But you get a helluva lot of Stax love even with these guys, I like the rough and tumble punch they give. They fit better than any of the others too, and the black looks better (plus it has a narrower no-nonsense cable). Probably good with a KGSSHV (will find out). 
 
The 307 was my first Stax. Listening to it now on a KGST as I wring out the bugs (the amp graduated from the 207.) Not as thick and punchy as the 207, a clear step up. But it has lots of punch in general, and also a slight thick warm in a very good way. Great all around contender, I heartily recommend it for somebody looking for an entry into Stax. Does everything well and nothing poorly, good with any amp. 
 
The 404 and 404LE are practically the same. Oh there's some slight, very slight differences, hardly worth mentioning. To be truthful I like the 404 a bit more. The difference between them and other Lambdas is refinement. They're more refined than the others, but with that they get more thin. That's the tradeoff, with all the Stax I'm hearing this sliding scale. But anyhow I like the straight 404 a bit more as it's got enough refinement without being too thin, and the 404LE goes just a little too far in the refinement/thin axis for my taste. At any rate for my music (classical) I like these the best of the Lambda's (I'm guessing the Lambda Sig will be even more in this direction). KGST probably a good match (will find out). 
 
Finally the Nova. This is the warmest and thickest of the lot. So much that it ventures into getting 'blobby' and indistinct. I believe they did this in response to the Lambda Sig to fix the "etch" complaints from customers. Well they went too far in the other direction, and cleared it up in later headphones. Probably my least favored, but I listen to it when I just want some relaxing music, kind of like kicking back in a lounging chair to take an afternoon map. Don't try Rachmaninov with this headphone. KGSSHV would probably be a good match (will find out).
 
Just some notes on my thoughts about these cans from living with them. 

 
And they turn into.much better phones when damped with sorbothane.  They Lambda LNS and 404 were the first phones I reported, when  I started damping the earcups of phones. These sounded better than the undamped 007A' s and I hardly listened to anything else for weeks.

 

[s1rrah]

I've had a vintage SRM-007T amp and a set of SR-007 Mk2/5's for about three weeks now ... 
 
This is my first listen to such a set up, having only 323S/Lambda experience up to this point and although I'm still not sure what my feelings are regarding piano music and classical in general (which I listen to a lot of) ... I do know this: the 007T/Mk2 combo is one of the best rock music set ups I've ever heard. The guy I bought the MK2's from described them as a cross between the Senn HD650 and the Grado RS1's and I would have to agree, nearly a perfect rock music combination.
 
I've read around the intrawebz that the newer SRM-007Tii amplifier is prone to distortion in the bass at higher listening levels but I can confirm without a doubt that this is not the case with this particular, older SRM-007T amplifier.  The volume levels this combo can reach and with excellent clarity/control is mind boggling.
 
I have a head-fi acquintance here in Houston that has a Blue Hawaii and we're planning on having a little comparative listening session here soon (she also has some 007 Mk1's) and I'm really looking forward to it as I'm uber curious to see what the higher end, non-stax electrostatic amplifiers sound like.

 

[Downrange]

  I've had a vintage SRM-007T amp and a set of SR-007 Mk2/5's for about three weeks now ... 
 
This is my first listen to such a set up, having only 323S/Lambda experience up to this point and although I'm still not sure what my feelings are regarding piano music and classical in general (which I listen to a lot of) ... I do know this: the 007T/Mk2 combo is one of the best rock music set ups I've ever heard. The guy I bought the MK2's from described them as a cross between the Senn HD650 and the Grado RS1's and I would have to agree, nearly a perfect rock music combination.
 
I've read around the intrawebz that the newer SRM-007Tii amplifier is prone to distortion in the bass at higher listening levels but I can confirm without a doubt that this is not the case with this particular, older SRM-007T amplifier.  The volume levels this combo can reach and with excellent clarity/control is mind boggling.
 

Actually, the newer Tii is a vastly superior amp.  The thing is, you do not need to run gain very high for the O2s, as they can project the full range of dynamics at lower gain levels than you might believe (try turning them down, you may be shocked), unlike many other ear speakers and their amps.  I rarely ever crank my Tii above about 11 o'clock, regardless of the subject material, and the audio experience is close to "real time/space" (TAS, iow) for, especially, acoustic material that is miked correctly (see Mohr Layton, et al) and not micro-miked and mixed.  There is an unfortunate Head-Fi meme about Stax amps in general, and the 007T series in particular, that is, I assure you, quite false for TAS music lovers, as opposed to the pop/rock enthusiasts, who wouldn't know a sound stage if it hit them upside the head like a two-by-four.  Of course, it's hard to sell more expensive SS and Tube ($$$$$!) amps by folks with vested interests here if common folks figure out the T series does exactly what Stax engineered it to do!
Just my .02!  Keep your 007T!

 

[s1rrah]

  Actually, the newer Tii is a vastly superior amp.  The thing is, you do not need to run gain very high for the O2s, as they can project the full range of dynamics at lower gain levels than you might believe (try turning them down, you may be shocked), unlike many other ear speakers and their amps.  I rarely ever crank my Tii above about 11 o'clock, regardless of the subject material, and the audio experience is close to "real time/space" (TAS, iow) for, especially, acoustic material that is miked correctly (see Mohr Layton, et al) and not micro-miked and mixed.  There is an unfortunate Head-Fi meme about Stax amps in general, and the 007T series in particular, that is, I assure you, quite false for TAS music lovers, as opposed to the pop/rock enthusiasts, who wouldn't know a sound stage if it hit them upside the head like a two-by-four.  Of course, it's hard to sell more expensive SS and Tube ($$$$$!) amps by folks with vested interests here if common folks figure out the T series does exactly what Stax engineered it to do!
Just my .02!  Keep your 007T!

 
I totally agree with your suggestion of "try turning them down" ... really .. in fact, I've found that turning the volume down solves 99.9% of my occasional issues with electrostatics (speaking strictly of classical, jazz, chamber, etc.) .. if the volume is set too high, then the mid range becomes way too forward, and *especially* with piano.
 
With rock music this is not an issue .. things sound perfect from zero to max ... 
 
But with delicate stuff .. chamber music with piano, especially .. I find the 007T/007Mk2 combo to be a bit too forward. Yet if I dial back the volume a bit .. I'd say .. to be more appropriate to what one would hear in a live performance .. then things come together quite nicely. And so again, I totally agree with you.

 

[lojay]

Actually, the newer Tii is a vastly superior amp.  The thing is, you do not need to run gain very high for the O2s, as they can project the full range of dynamics at lower gain levels than you might believe (try turning them down, you may be shocked), unlike many other ear speakers and their amps.  I rarely ever crank my Tii above about 11 o'clock, regardless of the subject material, and the audio experience is close to "real time/space" (TAS, iow) for, especially, acoustic material that is miked correctly (see Mohr Layton, et al) and not micro-miked and mixed.  There is an unfortunate Head-Fi meme about Stax amps in general, and the 007T series in particular, that is, I assure you, quite false for TAS music lovers, as opposed to the pop/rock enthusiasts, who wouldn't know a sound stage if it hit them upside the head like a two-by-four.  Of course, it's hard to sell more expensive SS and Tube ($$$$$!) amps by folks with vested interests here if common folks figure out the T series does exactly what Stax engineered it to do!
Just my .02!  Keep your 007T!

I do not see the need to attack those who have been vocal about the differences between the non Stax amps and Stax amps. In fact I share the views of many others on this thread who you are criticising. I had the Stax SRM007TA some time ago driving the SR009. It sounded thin, flat, muddied and veiled, lacking in bass and soundstage etc compared to the KGSSHV. I lived with both amps.

The 007TA was quite delicate sounding and intimate, if you like that sound. I find it a colouration. I soon moved on to the Woo WEE and even that was better, but still unsatisfactory. But pairing the 009 with the KGSSHV was the first time I heard the 009 open up. I seldom say this having been on Headfi for 10 years, and I often say that differences are subtle at best, but sorry, I disagree with you and must say that the SRM007TA is much inferior to the KGSSHV. How much so? It sounded so bad (for the price) I wanted to sell my 009s with the amp once I got them.

PS I mainly listen to acoustic, jazz, ambient electronica, classical, pop and a little bit of rock. So no, it is not a thing about musical preferences. And I know I proper soundstage when I hear one. In fact I prefer the HD800 for its soundstage (driven by the EC445) than the 009, unless the recording is intimate and is supposed to be listened to in the front row.

 

[s1rrah]

I still think the SRM-007T/SR-007 Mk2.5 is among the best headphone listening systems I've ever heard in regards to general sonic retrieval and especially with rock music (though not exclusively) .. the system sounds really fine with almost everything .. certain classical piano works still bug me but as a previous post person suggested, it's generally a matter of volume ... interesting ... 

 

[lojay]

I still think the SRM-007T/SR-007 Mk2.5 is among the best headphone listening systems I've ever heard in regards to general sonic retrieval and especially with rock music (though not exclusively) .. the system sounds really fine with almost everything .. certain classical piano works still bug me but as a previous post person suggested, it's generally a matter of volume ... interesting ... 

The problem with this hobby is that you don't know what you are missing until you hear it, so maybe I should shut up and save you some money.

 

[greggf]

lojay, what volume level do you use when you listen?

 

[lojay]

lojay, what volume level do you use when you listen?

60-80 max dB.

 

[David1961]

When I listen to my headphones, I like to listen at a certain volume, ( although I don't know what that is in dB's ) whether that's with my HD-600's or 009's, and this volume isn't too low or too high.

When I had the SRM-007t, I was listening at around the same volume with that Stax amp, as I do with the BHSE, and all I can say is I'd never got back to the SRM-007t.


P.S. With the BHSE I have the volume knob at around 10.30.