[arnaud]

Interesting findings Zolkis!
 
My 009 pads are starting to show their age as a matter of fact (the pad is compressing / getting a bit larger in diameter) so I was thinking to get replacement pads at some point.
 
My 007k1 pads are brown ones, very stiff (I wonder if they're supposed to be like or the foam deteriorated with age / got stiffer?). So, trying the current 009 pads on it would seem like a good try (009 pads are so much more comfortable).
 
The change in pads can be as if not even more drastic than the change in diaphragm so you're probably onto something here...
 
cheers,
arnaud

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
Thank you! Things are converging. I would be still interested to know that if all things made as equal as possible, how different is the 009 membrane from the 007.
 
I would like to ask you and Arnaud, negura and others who have both the 007 Mk1 and 009, could you please try the 009 pads on the 007?
 
For my part, I have ordered 009 replacement pads to try them on my 007 Mk1. I received them today, and spent a few hours with them. 
 
For the record, I have many pads for the 007: the original brown one, the black Mk2, a modified original brown with bigger opening and a bit shallower. The latter sounded more open than the rest. Based on dimensions, I expected the 009 pad improving in the same way. And it does...
 
The 009 pads are very easy to assemble on the 007. You don't need the spring any more (I tried with it as well but it sounds better without it), and for the duration of the experiment you can skip mounting the dust filter as well, so just put on the pads themselves, by aligning the edge of the mounting strip into the gap with a finger sliding through the perimeter from the inside opening. It took a few seconds for me. It fits very nicely on the 007, despite it's slightly bigger diameter than the 007 pads.
 
The good news is that the bass is maintained, the sound is more open and clear, and treble is better too. There is no hint of darkness in its sound any more. I was trying to get this kind of sound out of the 007 with my own built pads, and I am glad the stock 009 pads are even better, because it gives opportunity for more people to verify it. If I want to find some critical points, there is perhaps a little bit more prominent midrange now, but still sounds good and natural to my ears. Obviously the driver is still the same, so the musical resolution limit is still there compared to the 009, but from my memory the difference is smaller now.
 
At some point I may be able to compare directly with a 009, but if any of you is willing to take the burden of verifying this finding, it would be very helpful. Thanks!

 
The SR-007Mk1's sound very natural, fast and clean with a slight tendency to the darker side of neutral (when properly amped). When the amping is insufficient, they can come off as overly dark and a bit on the slow side (I think that's because the bass is less responsive). The SR-009s, can extract every last detail in a recording like to other headphone and still sound very musical and not clinical. The imaging is also better on the SR-009s to my ears in my setup. But as mentioned, owning both is a win-win IMO.

 

[zolkis]

My 007k1 pads are brown ones, very stiff (I wonder if they're supposed to be like or the foam deteriorated with age / got stiffer?). So, trying the current 009 pads on it would seem like a good try (009 pads are so much more comfortable).
The change in pads can be as if not even more drastic than the change in diaphragm so you're probably onto something here...
 

 
That is my experience too: it's unbelievable how much change different pads can do. Of course the diaphragm is an invariant, and imposes natural limits to the headphones, but pads can change the sound significantly, and eventually change the game for the given headphone.
 
All the 007 pads I have are quite different. The old-old brown type is made from thicker leather, rather soft. The foam insider got smaller and more soft over time. The sound is round and soft in comparison with the others.
The newer brown 007 Mk1 type is from thinner and finer leather, very soft too, like the best expensive gloves. This is the one I modified, and they are the most comfortable of all. It had somewhat stiffer internal foam, and had a pretty good sound to start with, and with the mods it became rather excellent.
The black Mk2 pads are again from stiffer leather and stiffer foam; they are also thicker, not so comfy as either of the old ones. But these do sound perhaps the best in the stock form, maybe a bit deeper bass, and somewhat more open sound. IIRC Spritzer is using these pads (and Mk2 assembly with Mk1 drivers).
 
The 009 pads are from higher quality thick leather, and the leather ring securing the headphone is actually reinforced with lining from inside (or it's pleather), making it much more durable to pad changes. This is the best Stax pad design to this date (I only wish they would also experiment with felt, wool and open cell carbon foam instead of using the same closed cell foams for 20-30 years). The leather is not as soft as the newer brown 007 Mk1 pads mainly because the thickness. It may be possible to treat it to become softer, but I agree they are rather comfortable as they are.
The foam inside is rather soft and quite shallow. With the 007 that causes the front of the driver getting a tad too close to the ear, resulting in some midrange elevation. My ears are a few dB's more sensitive to the 1-3 kHz region than the normal (I know everyone is more sensitive to this region, but I do have an anomaly, corrected by my brain and aging to most extent, but still a tendency), so it actually may be fine with most people. For myself, I will experiment with assembling a 2 mm thick felt ring inside the pad on the top of the foam (this is non-destructive) to see if it helps.
 
The improvement over the stock 007 Mk1 is quite evident, but not as dramatic as with the Fostex TH900, which became a different class of a headphone after the mods (carbon foam ear pad insert, felt ring damper and cup damping). That is one's dream headphone for personal tuning headroom . Still, the 007 improvements may be a game changer for many people.
 
Beware that after mounting the 009 pads you need to adjust the head bands as well! Uniform pressure over the ear with slightly-slightly more pressure in the bottom (so need to change the shape), setting it the pressure against the ears not too tight and not too loose either. There is a sweet spot when the sound stage and the tonality is the best. Once you find that spot, will know what to be after and how to set the head bands next time .
 
I listened to them this morning too (my morning ears are the best), and it was a fresh experience, pure pleasure, confirming the findings. Anyone having a 007 Mk1 should hear it with the 009 pads (I know it's a big statement, but that's why the invitation to try it out). Then, once you get a taste how big difference pads can make, perhaps you'll feel more inclination to experiment with different materials . Which I ended up doing during the past year. Now I am nearly done, only hoping I could get the 007 a deep bass with a visceral impact similar of the modded TH900. Once you hear that there is no way back. Though the 009 may have better potential for achieving it via pad mods. Ehh, so pity I can't listen to a 009 in my area easily.

 

[Michgelsen]

I do not recall hearing a significant difference when I replaced the earpads with black mk2 pads on my mk1 SR-007. Maybe a tiny bit, but I'm not sure if it's real or imaginary. Either way, the nature of the headphones didn't change at all.

 

[Mahay]

  Hello everyone,
Is it possible to add 1.4" jack to a stax amplifier so then one can compare a dynamic phone with electrostatic using the same amplifier. If yes, how do you mod your stax amplifier.
Thanks in advance

 
NO!

 
The reason I asked is because I notice that there are some amplifier out there that can handle both electrostatic and dynamic headphones at the same time like the vostok sound for instance or the one in this picture 
 

 
So I was just curious if it is possible to mod a stax amplifier

 

[kevin gilmore]

that amplifier has a multiple tap output transformer to drive both kinds of headphones.
 
stax amps have no such transformer.
 
there are a couple of other amps that are built like this.
I would stay away from all of them.

 

[Lan647]

   
The SR-007Mk1's sound very natural, fast and clean with a slight tendency to the darker side of neutral (when properly amped). When the amping is insufficient, they can come off as overly dark and a bit on the slow side (I think that's because the bass is less responsive). The SR-009s, can extract every last detail in a recording like to other headphone and still sound very musical and not clinical. The imaging is also better on the SR-009s to my ears in my setup. But as mentioned, owning both is a win-win IMO.

This pretty much sums up the greatness of the 009 to me. While I do think it lacks the midrange magic of the O2, the overall sound is quite enjoyable to listen to. I actually find myself jamming to some of my tunes with this headphone, while I am simultaneously spoiled by the resolution of fine detail. It's not a dull sound at all to my ears, unlike the HD 800 which just sounds sterile and uninviting. The O2 is in a league of its own in my humble opinion, wiping the floor with everything else I have heard (I have not heard the R10 or Orpheus yet, though). But the 009 is probably number two in my book. 

 

[edstrelow]

Got an email this AM from Stax USA aka Yamasinc that they are having a Black Friday sale. This is the first Stax sale I can ever recall.  Looking at the site there do appear to be some major prices drops and free shipping, even on the 009, plus free shipping.   Anyone who is looking for a new Stax might want to check it out.

 

[zolkis]

The 009 pads are from higher quality thick leather, and the leather ring securing the headphone is actually reinforced with lining from inside (or it's pleather), making it much more durable to pad changes. (...)
The foam inside is rather soft and quite shallow. With the 007 that causes the front of the driver getting a tad too close to the ear, resulting in some midrange elevation. My ears are a few dB's more sensitive to the 1-3 kHz region than the normal (I know everyone is more sensitive to this region, but I do have an anomaly, corrected by my brain and aging to most extent, but still a tendency), so it actually may be fine with most people. For myself, I will experiment with assembling a 2 mm thick felt ring inside the pad on the top of the foam (this is non-destructive) to see if it helps.

 
OK, done with experimenting. The slope of the foam inside the 009 pads is a bit too steep for the 007 IMO. In principle I tried elevating the front part a bit. From my Fostex TH900 experiments I knew which kind of felt to use and about how much. So started with a crescent shaped 3 mm thick and about third outer perimeter long felt piece. Sounded with more bass, bigger stage, and darker. OK, I wanted something near the other end, so I started reducing the size proportionally, until only that much change was audible that reduced the midrange to my comfortable level, and also improved the sound stage and bass. The sound got a bit deeper tone (clicked in to natural from being too forward to my taste), midrange and treble calmed down, but didn't sound dark. It sounds now like a 007 should, just more open and more musical and dynamic resolution (not to be confused with treble information). Also, now I can hear amp and source differences much more clearly with the 007.
 
I can recommend this procedure to all 009 owners too, especially if you want to dial back a bit the treble and increase a bit the bass slam and sound stage. I have not tried this on a 009, but my experience so far tells it will cause similar effect. You don't even need to take the pad off.
On my 007 I have ended up assembling the piece of felt inside the pad, as the picture shows, but the same audible effect was obtained by placing the felt between the pad and the assembly, making it removable without removing the pad. 
 

 
 
You may ask what's the deal with this size of small felt. Believe me, I am confident to clearly hear the difference in a double blind test, at least if you allow me selecting the recording . 
If you assemble the felt inside the pad, the correct way of opening it is illustrated above, i.e. you need to fold out the leather part completely, then fold in again (on the picture I pushed in one end to make the felt piece better visible). You can see that the sides are real leather, and the parts with no direct skin contact are pleather.
 
 
If you are adventurous and want to trade off some treble volume for more bass (actually, deeper tone) on the 009, you can also do a full ring shaped after the internal foam of the 009, and place on top of the foam. Perhaps that will do too much change, but maybe it's worth trying, the 009 has a lot of headroom for that.
 
I have used these felt sources:
http://www.meervilt.nl/winkel/wolvilt/wolvilt-3-mm/
http://www.createdbymascha.nl/c-1361241/wolvilt-dikte-3-mm/
https://www.etsy.com/listing/166846959/3mm-thick-wool-felt-9-x-18-in-23-colors?ref=related-0
 
For cutting proper circles in felt, I recommend you buy a tool like the Olfa cutter, but a sharp, rigid, tight, thin blade scissor is also sufficient.
http://www.amazon.com/1057028-CMP-3-Rotary-Circle-Cutter/dp/B001CEAMCY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1417288659&sr=8-7
 
Finally here is a pic of my 007 with new head pad and the new 009 ear pads.
 

 
For 009 owners, this experiment costs just a few dollars and some experimentation, even if it sounds incredible it's worth any trying. For 007 owners it's more since the 009 pads are needed. But if you will need new pads for the 007 at some point, I heartily recommend getting the 009 pads for a bit more money (much more easy to assemble as well), and enjoy your reborn 007 as much as I do .

 

[MacedonianHero]

 
This pretty much sums up the greatness of the 009 to me. While I do think it lacks the midrange magic of the O2, the overall sound is quite enjoyable to listen to. I actually find myself jamming to some of my tunes with this headphone, while I am simultaneously spoiled by the resolution of fine detail. It's not a dull sound at all to my ears, unlike the HD 800 which just sounds sterile and uninviting. The O2 is in a league of its own in my humble opinion, wiping the floor with everything else I have heard (I have not heard the R10 or Orpheus yet, though). But the 009 is probably number two in my book. 

Actually I still prefer the mid-range of the SR009s...they are effortless and work equally well with male and female voices. The SR-007s; while very strong in this regard, don't seem to have that magic with female voices. 

 

[cucera]

I've had my SR-007 Mk1s for almost a year now and really love what they can do. They truly shine as some of the very best headphones I've heard. But in the end, the SR-009s are just a cut above to my ears. While I haven't heard the SR-007Mk1's on a BHSE (I own both the KGSSHV and LL2 and both sound truly excellent with both headphones), I have heard them on my friend's DIY T2.

In the end though, the solution was quite simple....both.  :evil:

I habe now the 009 as a loan too and I have to agree with our Macedonian hero: I need both to have the best possible sound for every music type.

The 009 is technically superiour and I prefer it with classical music. But with pop/rock my 007 wins because of the warmer tone and more magical voices. Now there is no way I can afford both and the BHSE and keep my Smyth Realiser. So makes me thinking to get the 009 and simulate the 007 MK1. I will see.

 

[eric65]

I also have a 009 and a 007 mk3 (= mk2 with vents blocked)

As amplification, I had  the SRM 727 since replaced by the combo RKV-Wee then the combo RKV-Verto, and soon the Luminare amp (which could be even higher quality than the previous combos on some details (better OP-Amp in particular)).
 
Results: for all types of listening:
I do use only the 009 (and sometimes the HD 600 for home theater); 007 sleeps in a drawer (NB: I should soon give it to a family member with a decent amp).
I criticized the 007 because is its false tone (not true) for the reproduction of the human voice or a classical instrument like the piano; it bothers me enough to permanently remove this headphone.

For fun (with even more dynamic bass), I'll direct me to other headphones (particularly orthodynamics)

 

[TheAttorney]

I can recommend this procedure to all 009 owners too, especially if you want to dial back a bit the treble and increase a bit the bass slam and sound stage. I have not tried this on a 009, but my experience so far tells it will cause similar effect. You don't even need to take the pad off.  

Firstly, I'm impressed (again) with the level of detail and effort you've put into these experiments.
 
As someone who has never gone beyond sewing a button on a shirt, I've not tried any of your earlier suggestions that require the 007 pad to be broken open and then stitched up again - I doubt the the pads would ever be the same again. However, the 009 pads appear to be easier to to experiment with. Are you saying that you can insert the felt into an 009 pad without need ing to do any stitching or unstitching? Just roll them back?
Can you clarify what you mean by "you don't need to take the pad off"?
 
My 009s will be arriving in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to see for myself then.

 

[zolkis]

Are you saying that you can insert the felt into an 009 pad without need ing to do any stitching or unstitching? Just roll them back?
Can you clarify what you mean by "you don't need to take the pad off"?

Just lift a little bit the inner front part of the pad, and insert the felt piece between the pad and the dust grill (cloth). I recommend starting with a bigger crescent shaped piece, like quarter perimeter long, and trim until sounds good. The Type of felt influences the sound. The Etsy felt, 3rd link is pretty good. Overseas order takes like 2 weeks.

[edit]
I would like to add that actually it is better to use that piece of felt between the pad and the grill (i.e. not placing inside the head pad), since it gives more freedom, and sounds the same. I tried moving the felt piece around the pad circumference, and I found that the best effect was at the bottom of the pads.

However, I guess many people won't need this for the 007 when used with the 009 pads. In turn it may be interesting to 009 owners.

 

[Lan647]

  Actually I still prefer the mid-range of the SR009s...they are effortless and work equally well with male and female voices. The SR-007s; while very strong in this regard, don't seem to have that magic with female voices. 

I disagree.