The Stax Thread III

Jan 7, 2018 at 12:58 AM Post #13,681 of 27,947
With due respect, I see the words “virtually” and the expression “however the amplifier definitely sees the power as real” as a similar way to state your explanation.

Dr. Gilmore says that, at 20khz, the headphones can pull the equivalent of more than 1 watt per channel.

How much the headphones can pull at say from 50 to 500 Hz?

I am still having difficulties to understand loads that are predominantly inductive/resistive loads versus predominantly capacitive loads.

I thought that predominantly capacitive loads demanded more energy in high frequencies (20khz) and that predominantly inductive/resistive demanded more energy at low frequencies (say from 50 to 500 hz).

Would you please help me to understand where I am failing?

Well, Dr. GIlmore tends to be terse, whereas I tend to be wordy. So here goes.

So, there are a number of questions here. First, an easy way to determine whether a load is resistive, capacitative or inductive. The impedance describes the relationship between voltage and current as a function of frequency - it is a generalization of idea of resistance for AC frequencies, which includes the ratio between voltage and current, but also includes the phase relationship between voltage and current. A pure resistive load has a constant ratio between voltage and current with frequency (constant impedance), with a pure inductive load the ratio between voltage and current increases linearly with frequency (increasing impedance), and the ratio between voltage and current in a pure capacitative load decreases inversely with frequency (decreasing impedance). This means that for the same voltage, the current through a resistor is constant with frequency, the current decreases linearly with frequency for an inductor and increases inversely with frequency for a capacitor. However, with AC frequencies there is also a phase relationship between voltage and current - with a pure resistive load, the voltage and current are completely in phase, with a pure capacitor or inductor the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. Real components are not purely resistive, inductive or capacitative, but mixtures of two or three of them. So, for example, if you look at the impedance of a real capacitor, it will decrease with frequency up to some point, then may start to increase as an inductive component appears.

A simple way to picture the phase relationship between voltage and current is to take a capacitor that is charging and discharging as you run a sine wave across it. As the voltage rises from zero, charge flows into it (current), as the voltage rises to a maximum, the current flow slows and stops, as the voltage decreases, the charge flows out of it, and as the voltage hits zero, the current flow out is maximum, then as the voltage decreases below zero and hits its negative maximum, the charge flow out slows and stops, then as the negative voltage decreases, the charge starts to flow back in. So the current flow is maximum when the voltage is zero and zero when the voltage is maximum (either positive or negative).

What you are probably thinking of when you say that capacitative loads demand more energy in high frequencies while inductive loads demand more energy at low frequencies, is that the impedance number (the ratio between voltage and current) is lower for capacitors at high frequencies and lower for inductors at low frequencies. But the impedance number is not the same as the energy "demand."

The amount of energy that is "burned up" is voltage x current. For DC this is straightforward, for AC, you have to take into account the phase between voltage and current. For a pure resistor, voltage and current are in phase, so energy is indeed burned up in a resistor. For a pure capacitor or inductor, the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase, so when you multiply voltage x current over a full cycle, the result is zero. Again, picture the pure capacitor - as the AC cycle varies across it, the charge sloshes in and out of the capacitor, but because this action is "frictionless" no energy is used up. In fact, of the three, capacitor, inductor and resistor, only a resistor burns up energy.

So, we need to be precise in our terminology. Impedance and energy are two different things. Impedance refers to the ratio and the phase between voltage and current. Energy is the product of voltage x current (taking phase into account). The impedance of a resistor is constant, the impedance of an inductor increases with frequency and the impedance of a capacitor decreases with frequency. If we look at an impedance graph of a headphone, if it is flat with frequency we know that it is behaving like a resistor in that range, and also that the voltage and current are in phase. If we see that the impedance is rising with frequency, we know that there is an inductive component (there may be a resistive one as well) and that the voltage and current are at least partially out of phase, and if the impedance is falling with frequency we know that there is a capacitative component ( again, there may be a resistive component as well) and the voltage and current are at least partially out of phase.

With real headphones, there is always a resistive component to the impedance. That resistive part is largely due to the real wires in the voice coil, which have resistance, but also to some small degree, to the fact that it is making sound, which is energy, and which therefore must be supplied by the amplifier. Usually, that sound energy is only a small proportion of the energy that is burned up due to the voice coil resistance, etc. Which is another way of saying that the efficiency of the headphone is low, as most of the energy supplied by the amp is burned up as heat.

Electrostatic headphones don't have voice-coils of course, but they make sound (which takes energy) and also are not very efficient so again, a significant part of the energy that is supplied by the amp is burned up as heat.

Now, let's get back for a moment to the spectrum of energy in music, which tends to be maximum in the 50-500 Hz range, and look at the implications for electrostatic headphones in particular. What this means is that the bulk of energy that is burned up in the headphones as sound and/or heat occurs in this region. Since electrostatic headphone amplifiers are more or less voltage sources, this means that the output voltages are proportional to the square root of the energy, which in turn means that the maximum voltage and in-phase current occurs at these frequencies (remember, energy is voltage x current). For electrostatic headphones, their impedance is highest in this region, which means that the out-of-phase current demands in this region are relatively low, although, because the absolute voltages are highest, the absolute out-of-phase current may be fairly high. At high frequencies (say, 5000-20 kHz), the amount of musical energy is relatively low, so voltage is lower, in-phase current is lower, but the impedance is relatively low so the relative amount of out-of-phase current is higher (the absolute amount of out-of-phase current may or may not be higher depending on the frequencies involved).

Finally, Dr, Gilmore's statement that the SR007 can pull 1 watt per channel at 20 kHz doesn't have any information on the output voltage or current, or the sound pressure output of the headphones, to make a useful comment. I cannot say how much the headphones will pull at 50 Hz or 500 Hz.
 
Jan 7, 2018 at 1:57 AM Post #13,682 of 27,947
Otherwise we're talking about building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks, and even then you might have to spend more than $600.

Well sure, but did you tell him how much fun it is building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks?
 
Jan 7, 2018 at 3:38 AM Post #13,683 of 27,947
I got a SR-407 today, now the second Lambda I've heard/owned! I'm pretty stoked, I think this sound sig is going to work better for me than the older more ethereal lambda I have. But the Stax farts, oh my god!

I've seen it explained that Stax farts are actually a good thing, they bring you bass and don't actually do any damage to anything in there no matter what kind of damage it sounds like it's doing. So, as I see it, there's just one reasonable course of action for me: learn to love the fart.

Sorry if all this is plainly obvious to all you old farts here, but I'm just starting my first fart phase and it's all so new and intense.

Anyway I thought what better way to get used to it than to step up and own it, you can't effectively make fun of me if I'm wearing my farts confidently on my sleeve. Thinking about sleeves led to thinking about T-shirts, and bam! I knew what I needed to do. STAX FART TSHIRTS! I am so wearing this to RMAF next year:

2000G_WHITE_large_20180107005735249.jpg

There's so much you can do with it! Just think how surprised the lady-fi'er in your life will be when you give her this:

img-thing.jpg

I'm thinking about making my entire wardrobe STAX FART shirts, different fonts for different days, or to express different moods:

pixlr_20180107005958560.jpg

I guess it's fine if anyone here wants to copy my idea, I mean before long everyone's going to be wearing one anyway so you might as well go ahead.

If you see somebody on the street in a STAX FART shirt, think about giving them a hug, because they're probably dealing with some serious issues getting to their audio nirvana
:)

795d8802b7ec1f8f1ec8db0077a349ce_l.jpg
 
Jan 7, 2018 at 11:49 AM Post #13,685 of 27,947
Well sure, but did you tell him how much fun it is building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks?

LOL! Good point. Although not everyone enjoys doing that.

OK, how much in parts are we talking here? I have some basic soldering skills; is this a complicated process?

So, the replacement electrolytic capacitors are around $60 from Mouser. There are 10 of them.

The parts for the constant current sources are around $35, including the heatsink, which can be bought off eBay. Each constant current source consists of 5 parts, one DN2540 MOSFET, one 10M90S current source, one 100 ohm resistor, one 1 kilohm resistor, and one resistor you'll have to adjust to get approximately 4.9 mA current through the current source. This resistor can also consist of a fixed resistor plus a pot. I just bought a bunch of resistors of different values and substituted them in place until I found the one that gave me the value I needed. You'll need a voltage supply to measure the current (a 9V batter will work), and can use a spare 100 ohm resistor to measure the current - instructions in the article.

You'll need to drill a few holes in the side of the chassis to mount the heatsink and you'll need to tap the heatsink to mount it. The 10M90s MOSFETS should be mounted to the heatsink using aluminum oxide thermal pads Aavid 4170G and #4 shoulder washers to isolate the #4 mounting screw and heatsink from the MOSFET.

A suitable heatsink is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/150mm-X-60...592625&hash=item41c3780404:g:QDUAAOSwlndZBACM.

It is the correct height and thickness but will need to be cut to length. I mounted it using four 1" #4 hex aluminum standoffs (screw end at one end and screw hole at the other), using the built-in screw to attach to the heatsink, and #4 screws into the standoff to attach the heatsink to the chassis.

Also, one part I left out is that the bias supply should have a 4.7 megohm resistor going to the bias terminal on the output socket. The easiest way to do that is to desolder the wire from the circuit board to the terminal at the circuit board and solder the resistor to the circuit board at one end and the wire at the other. The Mouser part for this is:
VR37000004704JA100.

After you complete the modification you will have to re-balance and re-bias the outputs to set them to zero volts. You can find instructions to do this in the article and also on the internet.
 
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Jan 7, 2018 at 1:14 PM Post #13,688 of 27,947
I used 1/4 watt metal film resistors for the current sources, but the brand isn't particularly critical, as there should be little audio signal current going through them - that's the whole idea. As far as the electrolytic capacitors, Nichicon is good. Make sure that the caps you order are the same size as those you are replacing. You can use larger capacitance ones for the four primary power supply caps as they have gotten smaller for the same capacitance. I specify this in the article. It isn't exactly step by step, but it gives an outline of what to do.
 
Jan 7, 2018 at 7:55 PM Post #13,689 of 27,947
@Muffinhead:
The modification of the T1 consists of replacing the eight 33 kilohm plate resistors with four MOSFET cascode current sources (and required heatsink) set for 4.9 mA. What this does is to remove the current consumed by those plate resistors when the tubes swing signal current, so a significantly higher proportion of the signal current goes to actually driving the headphones. There are a couple other recommended changes. The modification is published in the July 2017 issue of AudioXpress - back issues available from their website. I demoed the mod for an acquaintance using a port-modded SR007, alongside a BHSE. He thought the BHSE was more refined, but it's also a lot more expensive.

@rpeebles:
As far as the T1, although it is old enough to vote, it is a pretty reliable design as the parts are used conservatively. In fact, many of them still are running their original tubes, and with routine maintenance such as capacitor replacement (can be done by any competent technician) should still be good for years to come. And the average price on eBay for them these days is around $600, although there is a good amount of variation, so $650 is not out of the ballpark, especially for a mint sample.


Hello Jim thank you once again ! Much appreciated.

I did enquire a bit more about the T1 and... as was expected...no maintenance whatsoever. So I will stick to newer equipment.

So the summary of the situation is:

I have the King Sound KS-04 Headphones and portable M3 amp. Very neutral, not bright, quite laid back and only low volume.

I would like a relatively Bright and very Detailed sound as a complement to my King Sound arrangement.

I have been looking into the STAX -L500, L-700 0r SR-007A. Which of these would best fill my needs ? With what you have suggested I am inclined towards the L-700 - would that be correct ?

On the Amp side I understand that the KS M3 can manage the STAX Headphones - If anybody has any experience...any good ?

What would be the best amp for the recommended Headphones - SRM 353x or another ?

Or should I just decide for the SRS - 5100 combo ?

Your recommendations will be once again much appreciated. Many thanks for your help !

Best regards,

Robert
 
Jan 7, 2018 at 11:50 PM Post #13,690 of 27,947
Hey @JimL11, just bought the magazine issue. Although I clearly don't have the parts yet, I opened up the chassis to familiarize myself with simply taking off the pcb, and I could get off all the nuts that connect to the standoffs except for one stubborn %$^$#^$#!.I noticed this one had a washer underneath it. How do i go about removing this nut?
 
Jan 8, 2018 at 12:29 AM Post #13,691 of 27,947
No, no, leave the PCB in the chassis! You can take off the top and bottom covers, and that exposes both sides of the PCB. That is all you need. You'll actually need the PCB in the chassis when you mount the heatsink to the side of the chassis, because the current sources are mounted on the heatsink, and the wires from those current sources go to the PCB. Here is a picture.
StaxSRM-T1 mod.jpg..jpg
 
Jan 8, 2018 at 8:27 AM Post #13,692 of 27,947
if you want to have boards made, this hangs of the side, no need to drill holes. easy to adjust the currents.

I have no idea why the attached board file does not show up.
 

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Jan 8, 2018 at 12:39 PM Post #13,693 of 27,947
I used 1/4 watt metal film resistors for the current sources, but the brand isn't particularly critical, as there should be little audio signal current going through them - that's the whole idea. As far as the electrolytic capacitors, Nichicon is good. Make sure that the caps you order are the same size as those you are replacing. You can use larger capacitance ones for the four primary power supply caps as they have gotten smaller for the same capacitance. I specify this in the article. It isn't exactly step by step, but it gives an outline of what to do.
Do they have to be exactly the same size? I'm browsing mouser right now and can't seem to find ones with the same size even with a higher capacitance.
 
Jan 8, 2018 at 12:59 PM Post #13,694 of 27,947
Hello Jim thank you once again ! Much appreciated.

I did enquire a bit more about the T1 and... as was expected...no maintenance whatsoever. So I will stick to newer equipment.

So the summary of the situation is:

I have the King Sound KS-04 Headphones and portable M3 amp. Very neutral, not bright, quite laid back and only low volume.

I would like a relatively Bright and very Detailed sound as a complement to my King Sound arrangement.

I have been looking into the STAX -L500, L-700 0r SR-007A. Which of these would best fill my needs ? With what you have suggested I am inclined towards the L-700 - would that be correct ?

On the Amp side I understand that the KS M3 can manage the STAX Headphones - If anybody has any experience...any good ?

What would be the best amp for the recommended Headphones - SRM 353x or another ?

Or should I just decide for the SRS - 5100 combo ?

Your recommendations will be once again much appreciated. Many thanks for your help !

Best regards,

Robert

@JimL11 Dear Jim if you could give me a hand with my decision tree. It would be much appreciated. Thanks !!
 
Jan 8, 2018 at 2:46 PM Post #13,695 of 27,947
What experience have 009 and 007 owners had with replacing the ear pads for "routine" maintenance?
How often should they be replaced?
What was your experience with the change in sound quality due to replacement?
Are there any choices to make, or just get them from Stax?
I have had my 009's for ~5 years and have.used them somewhere between 2000 and 4000 hours.
 

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