The Stax Thread III

[dubharmonic]

So supposedly we better port the ear pad ? Lol

Some owners have been, apparently. 

 

[Rossliew]

I know that this question is for someone else but I have more observations for you:

I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009

But my source preference is different with 007mkII: After 3 days with 007, I tend to prefer Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>007mkII over Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>007mkII

I may have correct the later statement in the future but I am 100% sure about the first one. To me, the Yggdrasil>Carbon>009 setup is sometimes a little bit "treble sharp".

I don't have a Carbon yet but I have the Audio Note dac4.0 and yes I do find it a bit smooth and soft around the edges. Can be somewhat tuned with tube rolling or cable swapping. The schiit is more forward sounding and hence gives a toe tapping excitement when listening. I have the gungnir DS but it sounds pretty good .

 

[astrostar59]

 

 
What DAC source are you feed the Carbon with? 

 
I know that this question is for someone else but I have more observations for you:
 
I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009
 
But my source preference is different with 007mkII: After 3 days with 007, I tend to prefer Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>007mkII over Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>007mkII
 
I may have correct the later statement in the future but I am 100% sure about the first one. To me, the Yggdrasil>Carbon>009 setup is sometimes a little bit "treble sharp".

Hi seaice
Interesting. I now have the Audio Note DAC 5 (UK) which I bought used. It is quite old (2008) but the current version, as Audio Note haven't created a new model since to replace it. That is rumoured to be a discrete board instead of chip based, but no info on progress for a while.
 
The DAC 5 is insanely expensive new really (I paid well under list). I used to think it was too expensive TBH, but since have changed my mind, after demoing other DACs in the £15K-22K range. And I was going to move DACs again but have since decided to stay with the DAC 5. There is so much it gets right, so undigital and natural. And being able to tube roll has been great to tune my system for the Carbon and 009s plus my horn speakers. I also changed the output caps. I play it loud and it is so damb smooth in the treble, a real treat after my 20+ year love / hate with digital.
 
One thing that did bring benefits as well that might be worth you looking at is loosing the USB. I went Rednet AOIP and it was a good move. That would boost both your DACs IMO. I feed 44.1 or 96K depending on the file sample rate, to the Rednet and then to the DAC i.e. bit perfect, no messing, no EQ, no filters, no upsampling.
 
On the 007s, I do use EQ though, about 4dB from 6Hz up to 20KHz, it seems to wakes them up and balances the response, less of a dark signature. The current 007A is great I think, maybe 90% of the 009s IMO, and a bargain for the performance. I use DMG EQuick inside Audirvana+ for that EQ.

 

[hpeter]

nice amp. I kinda just want one for the Aesthetics he he. Also, use a McDicks' straw from your happy meal to break the seal

i put two 8mm heatshrinks with glue (hard to squeeze) under 207 pad... such deep bottom.... :basshead:

 

[astrostar59]

 

I know that this question is for someone else but I have more observations for you:

I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009

But my source preference is different with 007mkII: After 3 days with 007, I tend to prefer Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>007mkII over Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>007mkII

I may have correct the later statement in the future but I am 100% sure about the first one. To me, the Yggdrasil>Carbon>009 setup is sometimes a little bit "treble sharp".

I don't have a Carbon yet but I have the Audio Note dac4.0 and yes I do find it a bit smooth and soft around the edges. Can be somewhat tuned with tube rolling or cable swapping. The schiit is more forward sounding and hence gives a toe tapping excitement when listening. I have the gungnir DS but it sounds pretty good .

There are more tweaks to be had on the DAC 4.1 kit.

 

[hpeter]

My recommended minimal (and reversible) mod on the 007 Mk2 is this:
1) remove the springs, then if you are brave,
2) take out the filling from the ear pads and cut off the 4mm thick white styrofoam reinforcement from the foam filling. I used a ceramic knife for that and when finished, I could glue the foam back with the original glue layer (if I wanted).
3) re-adjust the head band.
The sound becomes cleaner and more open, bass will have more texture and definition, too. I have also measured them both ways and the measured difference is nearly none, while the sound character did change.

styro? that material is hard, i cannot imagine putting a hard material under leather - seal will suffer , no ?

 

[zolkis]

I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009
But my source preference is different with 007mkII: After 3 days with 007, I tend to prefer Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>007mkII over Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>007mkII
I may have correct the later statement in the future but I am 100% sure about the first one. To me, the Yggdrasil>Carbon>009 setup is sometimes a little bit "treble sharp".

 
The treble is one thing. The question I always ask myself when comparing two systems: is there a tonality difference (most noticeable with voices and wind instruments), i.e. does one sound in a deeper, more relaxed tone than the other.  If no, I analyse other traits, e.g. richness vs naturalness of tone, attack, decay, ambience, etc.
 
If there is a tonality difference, so far always the one with the deeper tone was the better one for me, usually also paired with better low level acoustic information retrieval (do not confuse it with treble or midbass bump). The other one usually has a hardness in the sound that is often perceived as a kind of more upbeat tonality.
 
I have found this is true for speaker drivers, headphone drivers, electronic equipment, and even cables. It may be a personal preference, but it's been a good guide for me.

 

[zolkis]

styro? that material is hard, i cannot imagine putting a hard material under leather - seal will suffer , no ?

 
It's soft, but more firm than the upper, thick soft foam part. It's a plastic-rubbery material with small closed cells, perhaps not styrol, but it's close. It's for keeping the pads firm at the base and it's glued to the upper, soft foam part.
 
The seal depends on the leather pressing against the head/ear, since the seal between the leather and the metal plate will always be better. The 007 has 2 metallic plates (holding the leather flap between them) but without being secured with 6 screws like with the 009. Therefore the 009 seal at the plate side will always be better.
 
However, seal is only one contributing factor in the sound. The material used inside the pads makes a lot of difference in the sound, so far with every headphone I have tried, to different extent, and each tends to have a different optimum for foam density and micro-structure. The best macro-property to optimize seems to be the mass inside the ear pads: there is an optimum for a given kind. Dynamic headphones tend to sound best with carbon foam filling (lower mass per volume, given the specific dimensional constraints). Stax headphones tend to sound better with their original soft foam pads, with thin carbon foam inserts.
 
I don't think I could deduce any of these, quite the contrary, I noticed the differences in sound, and the above are my best guess (speculation) of what might be the cause and how to control it.

 

[Ampeezy]

  For warned getting the 007 pads back on is a really BIOTCHH

​Like someone asked, any change in sonic character after you removed the ring?

 

[TheGadaffiDuck]

 
​Like someone asked, any change in sonic character after you removed the ring?

at least on the MK2s, treble is more coherent, maybe more air, and the glariness problem i had is gone. Someone said more bass texture, but I'm not sure if that was before or after he added the Styrofoam to his headset. Bass sounds fine to me either way

 

[Ampeezy]

  at least on the MK2s, treble is more coherent, maybe more air, and the glariness problem i had is gone. Someone said more bass texture, but I'm not sure if that was before or after he added the Styrofoam to his headset. Bass sounds fine to me either way

​Sounds good, any tips on putting the pads back on? Also, does removing the spring really affect the earpad placement much? in terms of its elevation above the drivers.

 

[TheGadaffiDuck]

 
​Sounds good, any tips on putting the pads back on? Also, does removing the spring really affect the earpad placement much? in terms of its elevation above the drivers.

Maybe a little bit close? I have large ears so its hard for me to know for sure.

 

[TheGadaffiDuck]

Yes, you are. It all had been covered before.
I listened to both a few days ago, though my Mk2 is the latest version that's supposedly better balanced than the SZ3 versions. I listened with the SRM-717. The L700 is brighter, more open, and on the 717, more dynamic. The SR-007 is more linear, more coherent, more detailed, and has better imaging.

The L700 feels like it has less linear bass, with more bass rolloff in the deep bass and more emphasis in the mid and upper bass. Which means that when you listen to basslines on the L700, the lower the bass goes the quieter it gets, whereas on the 007 the bass sounds more linear. The mids on both are not too different to be honest, though the L700 has a bit more upper mid emphasis, and sometimes upper mid-heavy instruments will jump out of the mix more than on the 007. Whether or not that is natural is debatable, and I like the mids on both. The upper treble is notably more present on the L700, which has more sparkle in the highs in general, whereas the 007 sounds a bit dark up top (but we all knew that). The L700's does better than any previous Lambda in soundstage, but its soundstage is always large, whereas the 007's soundstage will vary in size depending on the recording. The L700 is very detailed, and on its own doesn't feel like it's leaving anything behind, but the 007 is even more detailed, with simply incredible microdetail. The L700 also sounds lush and very airy pretty much always, whereas the 007 is more textured and recording-dependent. With it, dry recordings will sound dry and lush ones lush. Dynamics are hard to comment on, because while the 717 is not the worst amp for the 007, it's still not quite enough.

My only real complaint with the L700 is not the sound, it's the comfort. There is too much pressure on the top of the earpad, and if you wear glasses they will be pressed into your temples leading to discomfort over time. It sounds very good however and its sonic flaws are minor.

The SR-007 is a higher caliber of headphone all around, offering more resolution and refinement, but it's harder to drive, and optimizing a 007 rig will be a lot more expensive. If I had no comfort issues with the L700 I would probably be quite happy with it, but the 007 does give you that extra 5% - at a lot more cost. And if you lean towards a brighter sound, go elsewhere.

based on that statement on soundstage, would you say the L700 has more or less soundstage than the 007 overall?

 

[nepherte]

So... Besides fixing the anowing pad rotation, do you Hear a sonic difference ?

 
Comfort seems to have slightly increased (it seemed like this was bothering u a bit during our latest listening session). Regarding sonic differences, the jury is still out. All I can say is for sure it must sound like the metal springs have been removed, because they are

 

  Sorry for the delayed response.
I already read that you've got the springs off. Seriously, I'm blind in my right eye, and my left eye only has tunnel vision (no peripheral vision at all) and it took me maybe 30 minutes to get the pads off and back on beautifully. Once you get the pad started, simple slide the excess material in with a thin butter knife. Also put Scotch tape on the end of the butter knife to protect the black painted metal grills from scratching. This was a tremendous help and made the mod quite simple. 
 
Also, the nice thing is that the pads will still rotate, but with much more resistance, so when you find the position you prefer, they will stay there.
 
By the way, it was @zolkis who lead me to do remove the springs and the do the port mod, and I greatly appreciate him recommendations!

 
Haha. Apparantly I had more luck, after I figured how exactly the ear pads fit on the headphone, it was a matter of minutes (no tools involved). If I had only paid attention to that before I pulled of the ear pads...

 

[catscratch]

based on that statement on soundstage, would you say the L700 has more or less soundstage than the 007 overall?

Soundstage is not a "more" or "less" sort of thing. The 007's soundstage is different. It's more recording dependent, usually smaller but sometimes bigger, and the imaging is more accurate. The L700 does give you more of a frontal image thanks to the angled drivers, whereas the 007 is more in your head and like a traditional headphone. I like the 007 more, but there are merits to the L700's way of doing things too, it's more speaker-like and will probably please somebody that hates the headphone in-your-head sensation more than the 007.