The Stax Thread III
Jan 18, 2017 at 5:16 PM Post #10,921 of 25,567
   
There are some great deals on used KGSSHV amps these days.  I own two at the moment that I had built for me: the KGSSHV Carbon and the KGST.  The 007A's are one of my favorite pair of cans and I was surprised to experience how well they scale.  Some folks read this to mean you the poster is suggesting you have to go buy a more powerful and transparent amplifier to enjoy them.  That is not the case here, but what I would suggest is if you can have a listen to your 007A's with an aftermarket amplifier like a KGSSHV, then I strongly recommend you do.  I argue that they will indeed impress you more so than just some marginal improvement.  
 
I do not profess to have golden ears...far from the truth as I'm middle aged and my hearing has gone with the years, but I can plainly state that I was surprised that the Carbon took my 007A's above the KGST, as an example.  They both blow away the Stax amp's I have had the pleasure to listen to a meets.  What I cannot argue is that the Carbon was worth the money for value improvement from the KGST...that is very much a personal choice.  The KGST was very good and would have been a satisfying option for the rest of my listening years...truly.  It just surprised me that the Carbon further fleshed the ability of the 007A's out and the bottom tightened up as much.  Not a different headphone, just more effectively exploited / powered.  This is all to say that your 007A's will indeed scale impressively when powered well.
 
I would recommend you listen before you buy if possible.  If you are budget conscience, purchase a used KGSSHV that suits you (size, heat it might put off vs the location you can place it, voltage rating, number of outputs and inputs, volume potentiometer, color, etc...) from a reputable seller.  There are some amazingly good people here and a few sharks so be thoughtful about who you buy from...look for a good reputation and use PayPal or the like.
 
You can get some great deals on the older versions of the KGSSHV's and you will get great results.  If you are comfortable paying for a KGSSHV Carbon, I can profess that my Ygg > Carbon > 007A is a great combo if you like the 007A's.  I did not want to fiddle with the BHSE and, personally, prefer a warmer sound signature so have not pursued one.  I am also not a fan of the Cavalli products...sorry.  Not good value for money IMHO.
 
My two bits.  Best of luck on your journey.  Happy New Year!
 
HS

 
I took your advice, and picked up a used KGSSV amp from a reputable source for a reasonable price.  Should be here in the next few days.  I was able to sell my SRM 4040 setup for a fair price to help with the cost.  I'll be sure to post observations after I get some time to listen to the setup.  
 
Jan 18, 2017 at 5:30 PM Post #10,922 of 25,567
From what I've seen, Birgir is working on a SMD version of the KGSSHV Mini.
Just guessing here. but, price could be around 1000€, is a "great amp for the masses".
 
I really hope the MK3 version of the 007 is the same as the current one, but without bass port, so no need for mod.
 
Imagine that, 1800€ SR-007 and 1000€ KGSSHV...2800€ for a killer setup, no mods required.
 
Jan 18, 2017 at 5:31 PM Post #10,923 of 25,567
   
I took your advice, and picked up a used KGSSV amp from a reputable source for a reasonable price.  Should be here in the next few days.  I was able to sell my SRM 4040 setup for a fair price to help with the cost.  I'll be sure to post observations after I get some time to listen to the setup.  

 
I think you'll be pleased.  Look forward to reading your impressions.
 
HS
 
Jan 18, 2017 at 6:17 PM Post #10,924 of 25,567
  I really hope the MK3 version of the 007 is the same as the current one, but without bass port, so no need for mod.

I definitely missed this. 
rolleyes.gif

Stax is coming out with an 007MK3?
 
I read the translation by @arnaud about Stax building another amp, but don't recall reading about a new 007. I only recall Stax possibly releasing another headphone for their 80th Anniversary in 2018. 
 
Jan 18, 2017 at 6:42 PM Post #10,925 of 25,567
  I definitely missed this. 
rolleyes.gif

Stax is coming out with an 007MK3?
 
I read the translation by @arnaud about Stax building another amp, but don't recall reading about a new 007. I only recall Stax possibly releasing another headphone for their 80th Anniversary in 2018. 

 
Yes sir 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/829843/stax-sr-009-and-t2-successors-confirmed-for-spring-2017/45#post_13130037
 
 
今後の新製品にもぜひご期待下さい、そうホイホイ出せませんが・・・(苦笑)
In the future, certainly please expect new products, although we don’t carelessly release … (smile)
 
また既存機種の改良・性能向上も、引き続き行っていきます。
We are also continuously improving existing models, increasing their performance.
 
過去あったマーク2、マーク3モデルという形もあるかもしれません。
Things that were previously at mk 2 stage may involve into mk 3 for instance.
 
Jan 18, 2017 at 9:38 PM Post #10,926 of 25,567
I own a Stax 007ii and currently listening to an ageing Lambda Pro Signature which are being replaced by a pair of 009's. I am interested in improving the 007ii at some stage to get the best from the 009's. Can someone pls provide a bit more info on the DIY options including the "T2" mentioned in this thread. Is this referring to an improved Stax design perhaps built with better components - or is it a novel design? Is there a circuit diagram available and or some images of the DIY T2?

I wonder if in fact the 007ii cannot be breathed on a bit by upgrading key components and a beefed up power supply?

I have heard the BHSE with the 009's on a high end system and can report that from my perspective the sound quality was so seductive I regard the event as musically life changing! So I understand the 009 headphones have enormous potential and deserve the very best in source and amplification - if the BHSE was not so expensive in Australia I would not hesitate to buy one it is clearly superbly built and an exceptional design.

Meanwhile I would like to explore DIY options including modifying the 007ii.
Or should I start saving $8500 for the BHSE?
 
Jan 18, 2017 at 10:29 PM Post #10,927 of 25,567
The DIY T2 is considered by many to be the "ultimate" but is a very complex design, uses lots of obsolete parts, and is build it yourself only.  There are circuit diagrams available on the internet as the DIY T2 was a project that was initiated by Kevin Gilmore, who also designed the Blue Hawaii.  However the T2 is a MUCH more complex design than the Blue Hawaii.  
 
The original T2 contributed to Stax going bankrupt in the 1990s, and literally ran hot enough to fry eggs on as its four EL34 tubes were enclosed inside the amplifier case.  Original samples when they come up on ebay are offered at around $20,000, although I'm not sure they actually sell at that price level.  Nobody is crazy enough to build it commercially for sale.  Stax is supposedly working on an upgraded amplifier according to a translation of a visit to the Stax factory that Arnaud posted here a while back.
 
The Stax SRM007 may do OK for you depending on what levels you listen at, but if you crank it up you'll start to hear its limitations - see the InnerFidelity review.  I think there is a modification that can be made to the SRM007 that will improve its drive capability but its more complicated than upgrading parts.
 
Jan 19, 2017 at 4:55 AM Post #10,928 of 25,567
I wouldn't consider anything they said as confirming the 007 Mk3. They simply leave open the possibility of it. In fact they did recently update it, the Mk2 went back to SZ2 serial numbers, seems to incorporate diaphragm tech from the 009 IIRC (I could be wrong on this one) and does sound different from previous SZ3-designated 007 Mk2's. It's the model some of us have taken to calling the Mk2.9, and I quite like mine, more than the early-year Mk2 I had a while back.

Stax more or less constantly mess and tinker with their own lineup without announcing it to anybody. In the past, I wrote some nonsense and BS about electrostatics burning in after having compared a brand new 003 to a well used one, but looking back on it, it's far more likely Stax simply make tweaks to the 003 without telling anybody, and I didn't dare open them up and find out.

Also, take my serial number comments with a big grain of salt, as Stax aren't systematic about their serial numbers in any way, and they shouldn't be used to figure out the manufacture date.

But, the L700 is seriously good, doesn't need aftermarket amps, and makes me think that they need to step up their flagship game. With a ton of new phones appearing and stealing some of the spotlight, and with new resources coming in from Edifier, now's the time to step up to the plate and show everybody how it's done. Just don't raise the price too much and outdo everybody on value as well as sound. I'm betting in the long term, that's what they're going to be doing.
 
Jan 19, 2017 at 5:53 AM Post #10,929 of 25,567
catscratch, agree with all of that. I too am hoping Stax bring out an 010 at affordable level. The way the rest of the high end HPs are going though, I wouldn't bank on it TBH. Stax possibly would keep the 009 and sit the new 010 above that, i.e. the price would HAVE to go up. I am curious just how far they can take the SQ already attained? Bigger bass dynamics possibly (is that even possible on an electrostatic?) no idea. I love the sound as it is already. But it should be a positive whatever happens, as keeping the tech moving forward is what everyone really wants.
 
Jan 20, 2017 at 1:08 PM Post #10,930 of 25,567
Got my first taste of the 007 mkII last night paired with SRM-007tII. Local shop managed to get a set in just for me to listen to. From the second I put them on everything was better than the L500's, had everything I already loved and improved on everything. and much more comfortable as well I must say. From what everyone says here that they sound even better out of a better amp I hope I get to the chance someday. Was close to pulling the trigger already, just waiting to hear few other HP's in a few weeks when I'm out of town.
 
Jan 20, 2017 at 1:17 PM Post #10,931 of 25,567
  Got my first taste of the 007 mkII last night paired with SRM-007tII. Local shop managed to get a set in just for me to listen to. From the second I put them on everything was better than the L500's, had everything I already loved and improved on everything. and much more comfortable as well I must say. From what everyone says here that they sound even better out of a better amp I hope I get to the chance someday. Was close to pulling the trigger already, just waiting to hear few other HP's in a few weeks when I'm out of town.


I would say buy the 007 MK2 (it is new right?) The current 007 lis great. Next DON"T buy the horrid Stax amp. Sorry, it will not do those HPs justice. Save the 1.7K USD for a used KGSShv. Job done. You WILL be happy, trust me. The 007s scale really well, and you won't get any real taste of it with that Stax amp IMO.
 
PM me if you want more info (from my perspective) Good luck!
 
Jan 20, 2017 at 11:49 PM Post #10,932 of 25,567
From short conversation with stax hq yesterday, they're still aiming for a commercial release of a new amp by the summer with a probable unveiling at spring fujiya festival.

Sasaki-san said it would sit above the 007t2 which I would assume means it will be a tube / hybrid design. When asked how different from current amps, it seemed clear it won't quite be T2 level so my bet is on something akin to the kgst with similar retail price to the 009.

Not sure we can expect anything for the 80th anniversary so this business as usual at stax :wink:.

Arnaud
 
Jan 21, 2017 at 6:15 AM Post #10,933 of 25,567
From short conversation with stax hq yesterday, they're still aiming for a commercial release of a new amp by the summer with a probable unveiling at spring fujiya festival.

Sasaki-san said it would sit above the 007t2 which I would assume means it will be a tube / hybrid design. When asked how different from current amps, it seemed clear it won't quite be T2 level so my bet is on something akin to the kgst with similar retail price to the 009.

That's a logical progression.  The tube/hybrid amps all have plate resistor outputs, and the best bang for the buck improvement would be to use constant current sources in place of the plate resistors, which would significantly improve the efficiency of delivering the signal current to the phones.  The solid state amps already have constant current sources, so it wouldn't be a big jump to transfer that technology to the tube/hybrid models.  I would guess that they would stick with the 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes though, and likely a passive power supply.  The front end of the SRM=T1 uses a simple zener regulated supply but the 007 uses 7815 and 7915 IC regs for its front end. 
 
Jan 21, 2017 at 3:06 PM Post #10,934 of 25,567
EQing the 009s
 
DMG Audio EQ (EQuick) plugin for Mac and Windows.
 
For those already successfully using EQ ignore this post.
 
I have had the 009s for 2 years and in that time I have also had 2 different DACs and 2 different electrostatic amps (KGSShv and Carbon).
 
Cut to the chase, I started using the Carbon with the 009s and my Audio Note DAC 5 from September 2016. Compared to the KGSShv it is faster, wider, more 'alive' and has oodles of depth and detail. The bass is a bit less in quantity maybe than the KGSShv (Sanyo off-board) but is tight and textured, so no big deal. The Sanyo KGSShv is the warmest of those amps I am informed, The treble in the Carbon is more pronounced which helps create a wider soundstage and give more clues in the music.
 
But with extra speed and transparency comes a price, as with everything that is good (in many cases). The 009 sounds a tad bright. It is not a problem, I am talking subtle, the last bit of system tuning, and it is dependent on the effect of the source.  It also sounds a bit bright on the BHSE (maybe brighter) IMO.
 
So, after 3 months of tube rolling my DAC I set about looking at the DMG EQ settings again. I bought this plugin last year and had used it to tweak the signature of my previous amp and also wake up the 007 a bit (detail). There are quite a few EQ versions from DMG. I tried most of them on a free trail basis, and settled on the best one IMO as the EQuick. Oddly it is not the most expensive one, indeed is a stripped down version of their top EQ plugin. Maybe it sounded better as it has less effects and features built into it?
 
On my speaker setup (same DAC) I run it straight, no EQ required. The sound is perfect for my taste and is realistic and smooth, detail but not hifi sounding or over the top.
 
Using my perceived 'perfect sound' on the big speakers, straight through to the Carbon and 009s the signature jumps up and has more energy in the mid treble and a colder slightly thinner sound overall.
 
To tackle this I have set a small treble dip around the 4-7 kHz region going back to almost no reduction up to 20kHz. A standard hi-shelf drop was compared to a dip and it didn't sound right, too much loss in transparency. This got me thinking, the HD800 had an annoying (to some) brightness spot around 6kHz that could give female vocals and guitars an unnatural edge and can be fatiguing. It does appear in my system the 009 has a slight lift around the same region. Or it could be my DAC, though I noticed it was also present in the AMR DP-777 and my other DAC before that as well. 
 
However, I don't hear any issues further up the scale, into the 8kHz to 20kHz range. So that is sorted.
 
Next the bass. It is super tempting to go large hear, I am a bit of a bass lover. However, even though the 009 can handle more bass quantity, it can lead to muddying the image and reducing the depth and width. Also when the music gets really busy that effect is more apparent. So, as Velodyne say in the manuals, set the bass to blend seamlessly, sounding natural to the rest of the music.
 

 

 
The 2 pics show the same response curves but I have rolled over each to display the setting. The setting I finalised where quite minor in amount, treble dip around 6kHz of -1.1dB, and bass lift of +1.3dB around 100hz. Doesn't look like much adjustment, but the effect on the sound is obvious. Any coldness in the treble region is gone, dead smooth and more organic. The bass also kicks harder and sounds just as tight and fast as set to no boost, i.e. no audible negatives whatsoever to my hearing.
 
I would say the built in AU Equalisers on a Mac are pretty poor and ruin the sound. Quite possibly the AU filters are using Apple core audio then Audirvana+ is using that modified file after. I am not sure, but the track load takes a tad longer when enabling the DMG filter so the processing is done in RAM first then fed in real time to the DAC.
 
The other cool thing you can do in this plugin is monitor the digital output level. Any bass boost will inevitably push most modern recordings above 0dB and hideous clipping will occur. This can be totally avoided by reducing the output level a bit and watching the peaks don't hit 0db. Once set this will apply to all recording i.e. no clipping unless the studio recorded it like that in the first place (Metallica 'Death Metallic' for example)
 
Job done. A superb smooth, fast and detailed setup with zero digital edge or fatigue. Well happy. TBH I believe the difference in many DACs once you get to a decent level is minor. And maybe the search for a DAC that sits better in a certain system can be tweaked just by using a bit of EQ. Cheap and worth a try IMO.
 
My last thought on this, would we expect a normal speaker to have one voice coil for full range? Almost none are made that work. The ones that look like a single cone invariably have 2 cones on the same mount. Thus we are technically expecting a headphone with s single cone driver / panel to produce a ruler flat response from 20 hz right up to 20 kHz, it is difficult to imagine ANY headphone could do that. But it can (with a bit of help) IMO.
 
Hope this helps someone.
 

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