The Stax Thread III

[Ali-Pacha]

What d"you say ? 

Ali

 

[rgs9200m]

Leitmotif... Wow, 'have not heard that word since college long ago. (I admit I had to look it up since I forgot the meaning.) I always appreciate the education I get on headfi. So thank you. (Post 3135 above.) Beautiful word by the way.

 

[complin]

We seem to be missing the point here in that most of the other alternatives to STAX amps are mostly DIY or boutique manufacturers who sell direct. They don't have a dealer network, marketing costs, or offer distributors/dealers a markup/profit margin or export across the world like Stax. The alternatives are mainly only available in the USA so they don't have to comply with safety and electrical standards across the EU and rest of the world. All this stuff costs and Stax want/need to sell in reasonable volumes.
If you take these factors into account then these alternative amps would at least double in price so a BHSE would cost at least $10,000 for example! Woo and Cavaili would require similar price hikes. How many punters are willing/going to lay out this sort of money? I would suggest very few indeed!
Quote:

  I get both sides of this discussion. My point is the 'masses' don't get to hear any / many none Stax amps at dealers. The Stax systems are fine and for the money I agree are very good. But the advent of the 009 and the current hungry nature of the 007 has changed the Stax system offerings IMO. If we go to the 507 system and below, yes that is great value and gives the user a real taste of the high end. But if someone buys the 007 or 009, I am sorry, it doesn't have a realistic Stax system to support it i.e. no amp to match.
 
I get the impression Stax are aware of this situation. There were rumours they may build an 007/009 amp soon. But until then, IMO anyone coming into the world of Stax and buying the 007 or 009 is not being given the right advice selling them bundled with the Stax amps - sorry if this doesn't sit well with some. To be honest, if Stax had a leading amp to do the 007/009 justice I would have bought if for sure - no hassles, with warranty, can hear it before I buy etc etc. Because this is not available, it is up the the headfi community to give out their experiences instead.
 
Going back to the wallet and budgets, a very good KGSS or KGSShv either DIY or built by a builder can be had for around the same as an SRM-727.

 

[greggf]

So these boutique amps are only useful for those who listen at "above normal" volume levels?  Again, how loud is that?  I really don't know. 
 
I wouldn't be surprised if all of you here listen to really, really high levels, but I just don't know.  Tell me.

 

[karlgerman]

For me, i dont. Most of the time i try to use a realistic sound level. a level a jazz quartet would sound like or a symphonic orchestra. This is the same for the stax and my martin logan summit x.
The KGSS has more dynamic and more punch even at lower levels. Same fore the blue hawaii, i hope, but with tube sounding.
i used a stax amp for years and was ok with that but i really have to admit that there is a improvement with the gilmore amp.
 
Same was with my journey from stello signature dac to metrum octave and the esoteric d-02 DAC.  There was always room for improvement and the journey probably never ends!

 

[arnaud]

The Verto box (coupled to the amplifier RKV-II) is the winner for the best overall sound rendering over all other competitors amps, with a better overall synergy with the 009; not to mention a much better versatility of use it is also noteworthy (ie : possible listening of Stax headphones and others (no estat) like orthodynamics and electrodynamics headphones with the RKV amp).

Eric

I have saved you one future post, since I know the outcome already.

 

[kevin gilmore]

arnaud, you missed a couple of pictures

kgsshv (any one will do)
megatron
ges
wes
ll2t
eddie current

and i probably forgot a few

 

[arnaud]

arnaud, you missed a couple of pictures

kgsshv (any one will do)
megatron
ges
wes
ll2t
eddie current

and i probably forgot a few

 
I know but the shelf was getting heavy, I fear it would all fall apart. Not that I care about the looks of what's on the top but I would be sad to make a big dent on that BHSE down there...

 

[NoPants]

I think the conclusion we can all draw from this is to glue step-up transformers to the sides of the 009 and wear a backpack with batteries for the 580V bias. After that should be trivial to test out different power amplifiers by mounting one's face to the speaker terminals

 

[jgazal]

  I found comments from spritzer on Tyll's Innerfidelity review of the BHSE, where spritzer said, "With electrostatics most amps are just idling at normal listening levels . . . "
 
Can someone define "loud" listening levels for me, as opposed to "normal" listening levels?  How loud is "loud"? 

 
As far as I understand, spritzer means that a class A amplifier is working in a linear region (less distortion). 
 
If you have a more powerful electrostatic amplifier, you do not want to increase the volume, but keep it at the listening levels you are used to and it will work in a region that is even more linear than the less powerful amplifier.
 
Consider an amplifier A (max output of 28w) and an amplifier B (max output of 280W), then in both a conservative listening level (70db?) and what you would call loud (90db?), the amplifier B has less distortion compared to amplifier A.
 
My feeling says the more linear is the operation region the better (less THD, less IMD etc). 
 
So then I have other question: does tenfold increase in maximum output power from an amplifier A to an amplifier B mean a tenfold decrease in distortion when hearing both amplifiers at a conservative rated volume level (70db, for instance)?
 
I do not know the answer for that question.
 
Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge could enlighten us.

 

[kevin gilmore]

the answer to this question is very complicated.
 
if you look at some of the thd vs power level graphs that tyll did (I can't find at the moment)
you will see that most amplifiers have more thd at very low power levels than they do
at higher power levels. Some of this is because the measurement is actually thd + noise.
Even with pure class A, the lowest thd numbers are usually at about 80% of the amplifiers
maximum output before clipping. This usually applies to OTL solid state amplifiers.
 
Tube amplifiers with output transformers behave differently, and it very much depends
on the topology. Circlotrons and Futtermans for example behave very differently.

 

[greggf]

great answers . . . thanks guys . . .

 

[remilio]

Can anybody say - is NAD M51 a good match to HeadAmp KGSS and Stax 404LE?

 

[realmassy]

For me, i dont. Most of the time i try to use a realistic sound level. a level a jazz quartet would sound like or a symphonic orchestra.

That's right, there's no loud, but realistic sound level: every recording has its own ideal volume, and that is the RIGHT volume. If the volume is too low you'll have a distant, sterile and uninvolving sound, if it's too loud you'll get huge instruments on the stage, violin as big as a piano for example, which makes the reproduction unrealistic.
The 009 handle dynamics extremely well and this is also the area where Stax amps are behind compared to the boutique amps.

 

[walakalulu]

I'm getting the 009s next month and thought long and hard regards the energiser. In the end decided on the Stax 007tll Kimik. The guy who does the Kimik mods has further upgrades in mind so may take advantage as they become available.
My decision was based on the fact that the shape fits my available space but more importantly I'm just not prepared to import into the UK these no doubt excellent amps that have no backup outside the USA. I don't want to have to return a product across the Atlantic should there be a problem. Luckily should I crave some powerful bass I can use my Audeze instead. Would have been nice to have it all in one package though!