[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel As I predicted in one of the 1st posts here some RH fans would come out and "slag" pablo honey/creep and hype Kid A to the heavens saying how mature and sophisticated it is, thereby demonstrating how advanced/developed their music taste is.......what a joke.

funny, this is not only how the majority of radiohead fans feel, but the players themselves. rent "meeting people is easy" and see what i mean. radiohead refuses to play any songs off of that album, because they are no longer the same band musically. to quote thom directly, i believe he used the term "refridgerator buzz" for the sound of the album (an obvious line from karma police on ok computer).

radiohead played creep for the first time in years on their last world tour in their hometown of oxford as the final encore, but beyond that i haven't heard of them playing any songs off pablo honey since before 1996.

crev2002: your first post in this thread was about as good a description of the albums as i have read. great job.

as far as their lyrics are concerned, i read that for idiotque, thom yorke cut up a bunch of pieces of paper with lines written on them, and then pulled them out of a hat and that's how they were arranged for the song. you guys certainly read into a lot of things heh. the vocals for like spinning plates were said backwards, and then reversed for the song red-room-style (lynch fans know what i mean).

they were a neat band, but i've been listening to them for a long time and they've just grown out of touch with me. their latest album spiraled into pathetic political ******** and i can't stand that fact. i saw radiohead two years ago when kid a came out in a sold out show at roseland, maybe 5,000 people. later this month they are playing at madison square garden two nights in a row, both nights sold out. that's like 5,000 to 100,000 tickets. i used to adore them, but not things have changed and they will never be the same to me. oh well, such is life.

 

[GuineaMcPig]

Blessingx:

"Ignored" may have been the wrong word, since it was pretty much guaranteed that everything Radiohead did after OKC would not be ignored. "Dismissed" may be more appropriate, or perhaps "misunderstood"

Nonetheless, I truly can't think of a single record of Kid A's caliber that has been dismissed (even by Radiohead's own fans) the way that Kid A has. I know very little about the Velvet Underground, other than that they became popular years after they stopped making music, and are credited for pioneering the "indie," "lo-fi" sound. Since their sound hadn't yet made it to the listening public's ear during their early recording career, however, I do think that the situation of their first record is slightly different from Kid A's.

Can anyone else think of a brilliant record by an already popular band that was similarly dismissed?

 

[GuineaMcPig]

Quote:

as far as their lyrics are concerned, i read that for idiotque, thom yorke cut up a bunch of pieces of paper with lines written on them, and then pulled them out of a hat and that's how they were arranged for the song. you guys certainly read into a lot of things heh. the vocals for like spinning plates were said backwards, and then reversed for the song red-room-style (lynch fans know what i mean).

What you just mentioned has always been part of the allure of "Idioteque" for me. I appreciate this kind of experimentation because, hey, at least all of those cut up lines are pretty evocative and they all deal with the same apocalyptic subject matter. Can the same be said of the "raindrops" at the end of "Sit down. Stand up?" As for "Like Spinning Plates," it is one of my favorite Radiohead songs for the very reason you mentioned.

Quote:

i saw radiohead two years ago when kid a came out in a sold out show at roseland, maybe 5,000 people. later this month they are playing at madison square garden two nights in a row, both nights sold out. that's like 5,000 to 100,000 tickets. i used to adore them, but not things have changed and they will never be the same to me. oh well, such is life.

I'm sorry that they've gotten too popular for you to feel cool when you listen to them. Since I'm a fan of the band, I'm happy that many other people are getting into their music the way that that I am. In other critiques of the band that have nothing to do with their sound, Thom Yorke's hair seems to have gotten a lot messier as of late. I think I'll let it slide this time, though.

 

[blessingx]

Can you list other "Kid A's caliber" titles so we know the level of quality you're referring to? I know you obviously like the album a great deal (calling it revolutionary), but still a tad confused by what you think great music is (and your prespective for a term like "revolution"). If I thought this is self-evident I wouldn't ask.

 

[GuineaMcPig]

In retrospect, Kid A can't be called "revolutionary" because it hasn't started a revolution. The only record so far that I would say was influenced by Kid A would be Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, which I consider to be of similar quality. I guess it's too early to tell whether or not Kid A will be "revolutionary" in the traditional sense.

As long as I'm amending my choice of words, I might as well say that I don't think that Kid A is immune to criticism, and I do feel that there are valid critiques of this album (and every album). Yes, it can feel unemotional at times ("Everything in its Right Place," "Kid A," "Treefingers," "In Limbo"), although this can't be said of tracks like "How to Disappear Completely" and "Motion Picture Soundtrack." I think it's most valid criticism is it's inaccessibility.

I would consider the following a good criticism:

"This album sounds incredibly unique. The diversity of intermixing sounds is amazing, and it flows quite smoothly (although a tad on the short side). However, Radiohead choose too forego a bit too much of the traditional pop/rock song structure, making it hard for me to access this album. It sounds like there's a lot there, but I have a hard time enjoying it because it sounds too foreign."

What I would consider bad criticism:

Quote:

a touch derivative at times

Quote:

[Kid A] seem kinda simplistic in comparison [to HTTT]

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mediocre/average electronica...Did band just discover Eno ambient Cds, fanboys will say it's great just need repeated listening to get it, yea right.

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Kid A was a large jump for Radiohead, but other bands were doing this kind of experimentation before Radiohead

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it's very simple. Radiohead may have spent two years making this but they were obviously in a slump

These kind of statements are certainly dismissive: instead of offering any insight on what they don't like about the album, they make a statement about it without citing any specific tracks or even the other bands that experimented like this before Radiohead (sorry, Autechre is not a "band").

Kid A is my favorite album of all time. I cannot think of any recent albums that I consider to be of the same quality, but for me, Homogenic and OK Computer certainly approach it (note that this is only within the genre of pop/rock, as it's pretty silly to compare different genres of music).

Unlike JaZZ, I am not a relativist (this extends to all areas of my life, including music). I'm not an absolutist either, though. I haven't heard a record that I can call perfection, though a few have come close. I do think that comparison is a valuable tool when trying to objectively evaluate an album; not only does it provide a greater context for a work (which is never a bad thing to have), but it becomes easier to pinpoint specifics elements of each work that may add to (or detract from) the overall quality of the work.

I realize that my post last night may have bordered on a rant, but I don't want it to be ignored based on the last two paragraps. Similarly, I don't want my assessment of this specific album to be attacked or discredited by way of my choice of words or my individual musical tastes.

It doesn't bother me that people don't like Kid A. It is frustrating, however, to see that many are content to categorize this album as idle, immusical experimentation, and it especially bothers me when people dismiss this album as "too simplistic," as many have done here. I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that people who cared enough about hearing every detail in their music to buy hi-fidelity equipment would hear the diversity and quality of sounds that Radiohead use in this album, and, while not necessarily finding the album immediately enjoyable, would at least find it incredibly unique.

~Jordan

 

[Rizumu]

Quote:

Originally posted by GuineaMcPig It doesn't bother me that people don't like Kid A. It is frustrating, however, to see that many are content to categorize this album as idle, immusical experimentation, and it especially bothers me when people dismiss this album as "too simplistic," as many have done here. I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that people who cared enough about hearing every detail in their music to buy hi-fidelity equipment would hear the diversity and quality of sounds that Radiohead use in this album, and, while not necessarily finding the album immediately enjoyable, would at least find it incredibly unique. ~Jordan

Ahh, I've got you now. Thanks for clarifying since I see what you're getting at now and I agree. Dismissing the album with unfounded comments like those you've pointed out is quite frustrating. There is definitely such a thing as good and bad criticism. It is not all relative. At the very least people should recognize it's accomplishments rather than writing them off even if they cannot personally connect with the album and enjoy it.

 

[blessingx]

I have to think about the YHF - Kid A connection. I always thought of it as a Uncle Tupelo (former band) / early Wilco, mixed with a little Whiskeytown, and a dose of Pavement... but that's probably my baggage. If you like both you should really check out Califone. You'd probably like them quite a bit also. In fact just found out today they'll be touring with Wilco. Malkmus (of Pavement) / Jicks will be on some Radiohead shows also. All one small family.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rizumu There is definitely such a thing as good and bad criticism. It is not all relative.

I agree about the good and bad critics. Well, good and bad is relative: useful/harmful to a common goal, a relaxed and tolerant atmosphere, mutual understanding...

I would be glad if there were no such claims for absolute validity of an opinion reflected by parts of this discussion (not only from one side). Here the true insight, there the ignorance. Here the good, there the evil (G.W. Bush). Maybe that's another reason why I love HTTT so much...

 

[stuartr]

Here is my basic view of radiohead, perhaps I am a wrong. I basically think they are the most talented rock(like) band of the mid-90s-today. I don't think they are necessarily the most innovative, but they basically trounce all over most of the other competition in whatever style they adopt. At least in my opinion. There may be people out there doing more innovative or stranger or more sincere things, but radiohead just happen to be virtuosos. I am sorry, they really are. Their rock songs from the mid-90s kick ass, their tunes can be complex, yet still accessible. They try to make a social message that may not be as articulate as some other bands, but they do it. In Kid A they tackled electronica and turned it into something that was more broadly appreciable and added rock-like hooks and lyrics to it. Amnesiac was similar and HTTT builds on the electronica while bringing it more into the fold of their earlier work. I really believe it. While I think there are a lot of truly talented bands/musicians out there, I think radiohead really does have a lock on the most talented...well for lack of a better word...music-crafters of the last ten years. I think we will remember them for a long time hence. Just my .02 cents

 

[hedonist]

How could you NOT like "Where I end and you Begin"?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by hedonist How could you NOT like "Where I end and you Begin"?

Yeah!!! My favored song beside Scatterbrain.

 

[GuineaMcPig]

Well, I saw Radiohead perform live in Hamburg a couple weeks ago, and after hearing some of the Hail to the Thief tracks performed live, I must admit that my opinion has changed. Radiohead have said that they wanted to capture the energy of their live shows on Hail to the Thief, and I think that they were about as successful as they could be (no recording could completely capture the concert-experience).

After the climaxes of sweeping beauty in OKC and starry-eyed electo-embryonic wonder of Kid A, Radiohead have (to some extent) merged the two genres to create a sound that is at once analytical and energetic.

Radiohead have never rocked harder. And that gives me strength.

 

[Mallow005]

Thom Yorke pretentious? Attend a show and you will see that they certainly are not. HTTT certainly is a culmination of everything Radiohead ever did and has many classic songs. Nothing can beat the live versions however. Giving an album a number is just wrong to me. And if not wrong, then extremely difficult.

 

[sephka]

I used to call Radiohead my favorite band, but as of now, I'm reluctant to declare any band my favorite. Anyways, I voted Kid A. It flows nicely and I enjoy all the tracks. It has the most consistent atmosphere, and is the best album of theirs for headphone listening. For the heck of it, i'll rank their albums:

1. Kid A
2. OK Computer
3. The Bends
4. Pablo Honey
5. Hail to the Thief
6. Amnesiac

I guess my list isn't conventional. Amnesiac is too inconsistent for my ears, sounding like half of it was comprised of b-sides. I like Pablo Honey a lot, surprisingly. It's 90's lightweight rock at its best. Hail to the Thief strikes a middle ground between their earlier rock stuff, and the newer electronic stuff, and I like it. And, of course, OK Computer and the Bends are obviously great.