[jandl100]

In my quite extensive experience, a cable used for audio frequencies (i.e. a standard i/c) gives the same tonal and resolution characteristics when used as a digital cable. This totally baffles me. The signals could hardly be more different, and the digi signal (ones and zeroes remember) then gets totally scrambled when converted to an analog signal. As an example, try an i/c with a strong character (e.g. VdH First or Second - widely recommended for both i/c and digi useage - the sound is soft and laid back in both analog and digi use). Anyone got any ideas why this happens?

 

[Jbucla2005]

The only comparison I've done is digital coax vs. toslink... I found the coaxial better.

 

[Garbz]

The reason is psychological. There is no other possible way to explain it regardless of what people may say. The mind superimposes its expectations over what you experience. The result is you hear what you expect

 

[spudman]

These threads never seem to change anyone's mind. People believe what they believe.

 

[Herandu]

The impedance matching of an audio lead has a completely different impedance requirement to the COAX lead. Having been involved in the development of various leads, I am shocked you can't hear the difference. You can start by upgrading your equipment, before investing further in any leads. Oh, don't tell me you have expensive gear. Price is no substitute for accuracy in reproduction.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz The reason is psychological. There is no other possible way to explain it regardless of what people may say. The mind superimposes its expectations over what you experience. The result is you hear what you expect

Huh? He sames to be saying that he expected the cable at issue to sound different in the two different applications, but that they sounded the same.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandl100 In my quite extensive experience, a cable used for audio frequencies (i.e. a standard i/c) gives the same tonal and resolution characteristics when used as a digital cable. This totally baffles me. The signals could hardly be more different, and the digi signal (ones and zeroes remember) then gets totally scrambled when converted to an analog signal. As an example, try an i/c with a strong character (e.g. VdH First or Second - widely recommended for both i/c and digi useage - the sound is soft and laid back in both analog and digi use). Anyone got any ideas why this happens?

As to the latter point: no. But I've made the same experience as you with interconnects used as digital cable years ago, and I made many different cables with different materials and geometries myself, with the consistent result: They showed the same sonic characteristic both as interconnect and as digital cable. This was with a Theta Pro basic II DAC. However: Later cable swappings with the Bel Canto DAC2 showed no sonic differences at all anymore... I don't know if it's because my ears have been getting older and affected by tinnitus.
.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz The reason is psychological. There is no other possible way to explain it regardless of what people may say. The mind superimposes its expectations over what you experience. The result is you hear what you expect

Sure it is.. You just insuled a lot of ppl with your psychobabble.. I trust my ears & integrity..I'm not going to lie to myself just to prove a point. Everything that can't be explained through science & test ends up being our imagination, since there is no proof..

 

[steaxauce]

There's a simple way to solve this: Any change the sound caused by a cable that can be heard by human ears can be measured as distortion. If there is a measurable difference between the distortion caused by two cables, then there is indeed a real difference between the sound signatures of the two cables.

There should be a lot of head-fiers who have the resources to perform this test.

As to the op's question, I have no idea how that could happen.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steaxauce There's a simple way to solve this: Any change the sound caused by a cable that can be heard by human ears can be measured as distortion. If there is a measurable difference between the distortion caused by two cables, then there is indeed a real difference between the sound signatures of the two cables.

Analog cables (interconnects) show no harmonic and virtually no frequency-response distortion. Measuring harmonic distortion in digital cables wouldn't make sense anyway -- but they may cause different amounts and/or patterns of jitter, which is measurable (although you won't find any Head-Fier capable to measure this) and possibly audible in the end. However, this doesn't explain the identical sonic behavior compared to its use as interconnect (experienced/pretended anong others by myself).
.

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz The reason is psychological. There is no other possible way to explain it regardless of what people may say. The mind superimposes its expectations over what you experience. The result is you hear what you expect

Well, gee! I didn't know I had a psychology. How'bout'that! I just thought I was listening to music I know well and love lots. ... I see we have cable-doubters on HeadFi too. Why not just listen, huh? It ain't subtle!

 

[HumanMedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandl100 In my quite extensive experience, a cable used for audio frequencies (i.e. a standard i/c) gives the same tonal and resolution characteristics when used as a digital cable. This totally baffles me. The signals could hardly be more different, and the digi signal (ones and zeroes remember) then gets totally scrambled when converted to an analog signal. As an example, try an i/c with a strong character (e.g. VdH First or Second - widely recommended for both i/c and digi useage - the sound is soft and laid back in both analog and digi use). Anyone got any ideas why this happens?

Ive found the same, and have also been puzzled by it. Why should it impart similar characteristics? The pattern of them having a similar sonic signature as analog has confounded me also. I have given up trying to fit the repeatable, observable phenomena (power cords also)into my simplistic scientific knowledge.

But then it has just been proved that hot water freezes faster than cold water despite being reported anecdotally for decades (hot water pipes freeze before cold water pipes) but poo-pooed by scientists as it was so illogical - and never tested properly. But this year it finally was tested and proved. If this head-in-the-sand attitude prevailed for so long on something so simple, what multitude of other phenomena have also been overlooked? (New Scientist June 2, 2006)

 

[papomaster]

Anyone ever used a subwoofer cable as a coaxial one? saying that because I might put my DAC far from my computer and subwoofer cables are generally sold in 15', 18' and 25' lengths, gives a bit more flexibility than 4' cables.

Also, would that increase bass response?

Complete coax cable noob talking here.

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice Sure it is.. You just insuled a lot of ppl with your psychobabble.. I trust my ears & integrity..I'm not going to lie to myself just to prove a point. Everything that can't be explained through science & test ends up being our imagination, since there is no proof..

Please explain to me using science why a cable would sound the same when used as an analogue cable or a digital cable?

Psychology is kinda science

Placebo affect isn't about lying to yourself.. it goes beyond that. I've seen a documentary where there were some people who could not walk. After getting placebo surgery on their knees (ie the doctor just cut the skin and didn't do anything else), they were able to walk again!

If placebo can allow someone to walk after years of not being able to, why wouldn't it be able to slightly alter the sound of very subjective music?

 

[steaxauce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Analog cables (interconnects) show no harmonic and virtually no frequency-response distortion. Measuring harmonic distortion in digital cables wouldn't make sense anyway -- but they may cause different amounts and/or patterns of jitter, which is measurable (although you won't find any Head-Fier capable to measure this) and possibly audible in the end. However, this doesn't explain the identical sonic behavior compared to its use as interconnect (experienced/pretended anong others by myself). .

Any audible change in the sound, caused by jitter or anything else, is measurable as distortion!

Distortion = deviation from the origional sound

The sound tubes make is a nice type of distortion.

It's all measurable!

If the distortion can't be measured, it's inaudible.