The sound of digital cables ..?

Oct 19, 2006 at 2:44 AM Post #16 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanMedia
But then it has just been proved that hot water freezes faster than cold water despite being reported anecdotally for decades (hot water pipes freeze before cold water pipes) but poo-pooed by scientists as it was so illogical - and never tested properly. But this year it finally was tested and proved. If this head-in-the-sand attitude prevailed for so long on something so simple, what multitude of other phenomena have also been overlooked? (New Scientist June 2, 2006)


Well no. Here is another quote that nicely summarises the FACT about hot water freezing faster: "While this phenomenon has been known for centuries, and was described by Aristotle, Bacon, and Descartes [1-3], it was not introduced to the modern scientific community until 1969."

This phenomenon has indeed been observed, and tested, and not even that recently. Unlike the cable PSEUDO-science.

I say pseudoscience simply because it IS pseudoscience, not to insult anyone or incite a flame way - but feel free to flame and froth if you like. "A pseudoscience is any body of alleged knowledge, methodology, belief, or practice that claims to be scientific but does not follow the scientific method". "Scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge, as well as for correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on observable, empirical, measurable evidence, and subject to rules of reasoning". None of the cable debates about perceived merits or sound advantages of exotic cables follow the scientific method.

Now that this is out of the way, due to the profound lack of any scientific data on merits of many of the numerous audiophile tweaks, the only conclusion that can still be salvaged using the scientific method is that it is all in your heads, thus psychological. If some of you struggle with the definition of psychological here it is: "Of, relating to, or arising from the mind or emotions"

The pseudoscientific method of validation is as follows:
1. Present scientifically sound arguments
2. Place them completely outside of the context where they were defined to exist and empirically observed
3. Include corroborating evidence from yet another context which is empirically unrelated to 1 and 2
4. Mention quantum effects/eddy currents/skin effect/reflections/make up your own, using the latest Start Trek scientific breakthrough
5. Apply the good old legal tool called "precedent" again either completely out of context or misrepresented (See the hot water freezing example above) to try to add credibility to the hitherto questionable supposition.
6. Froth a lot and take it personally if anyone dares question the merits of the gizmo

Lastly, it really does not matter if the science of any of the hifi tweaks add up so stop defending (attacking is fine
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) the b****dy science of it or try forcing either side of the "I can hear it"/"No you cannot" coin to change their mind.

Music is about emotion. You are not listening to it to do an FFT spcetral analysis of the waveforms (at least not for fun), you listen to it because you want to enjoy the experience. I dare say that the way the system looks greatly affects the way the music feels...

Cheers,

V.
 
Oct 19, 2006 at 4:13 AM Post #17 of 24
And why was the hot-water-freezing phenomena NOT observed and even 'disproven' in some lab situations previously?*

Im still not sure what your rant is trying to communicate.
No one is pretending that these observations are scientific, the point is that something unexpected is being observed, that goes against common knowledge. It is something that placebo should work against. If any of us were paid researchers Im sure we would be happy to apply scientific analysis. In the absence of such, pseudo-science explanations are welcome and real scientific information more-so.

And placebo works both ways - people can doubt or ignore what is observable simply because it is out of context or because their understanding of the way they believe things work precludes what they are experiencing.


*because purified de-ionised water was used, removing the mechanism for the effect
 
Oct 19, 2006 at 4:16 AM Post #18 of 24
In the same vain.. Does cold water actually boil faster than hot water? I've heard that before.
 
Oct 19, 2006 at 4:30 AM Post #19 of 24
Actually, if you do some searching, you will find that there were plenty of scientific method type experiments conducted trying to confirm the existence of these observations...

If my earlier rant was hard to understand, I do apologise, but I will not be rewriting it for easier comprehension.

I do agree however that is is perfectly OK to post whatever opinion on the forum. Look how much fun we are all having.

I wish I was as inspired in writing the bloody content for our website....

As to cold water boiling faster than hot water, that should not happen - but neither should the hot water freezing faster thing. It is easy to test though. I may do an n=1 experiment today and tell you what I find.

Cheers,

V.
 
Oct 19, 2006 at 5:09 AM Post #20 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ
As to the latter point: no. But I've made the same experience as you with interconnects used as digital cable years ago, and I made many different cables with different materials and geometries myself, with the consistent result: They showed the same sonic characteristic both as interconnect and as digital cable. This was with a Theta Pro basic II DAC. However: Later cable swappings with the Bel Canto DAC2 showed no sonic differences at all anymore... I don't know if it's because my ears have been getting older and affected by tinnitus.
.



I have also made many analogue and digital interconnects and have used numerous commercial interconnects in both applications. I agree whole-heartedly that a given cable retains similar sonic signature in both digital and analogue applications.

It doesn't make really much sense from the huge difference of the applications, but it just goes to show you we still don't understand much about what makes a cable sound a certain way beyond the usual capacitance/resistance/inductance.
 
Oct 20, 2006 at 1:15 AM Post #21 of 24
Can someone here explain to me what is the difference between an analog and a digital cable?

And that's coming from guy with degrees in physics and electronics plus 20+ years experience in aerospace test engineering. I'm still willing to learn.

Thank you.
 
Oct 20, 2006 at 1:26 AM Post #22 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lad27
Can someone here explain to me what is the difference between an analog and a digital cable?

And that's coming from guy with degrees in physics and electronics plus 20+ years experience in aerospace test engineering. I'm still willing to learn.

Thank you.




A digital cable has a 75 ohm impedance thoughout and is almost always a coaxial design to support this impedance and offer shielding. Variations from 75 ohm may cause reflections in the transmitted digital signal which can affect it. Ideally it should be terminated with 75ohm BNC connectors, but more often it is spoiled with RCA connectors causing an impedance mismatch which may also affect the signal.
 
Oct 20, 2006 at 1:45 AM Post #23 of 24
OK. So if reffering to digital cable we talk coaxial cable. I just wanted to clear the terminology.

Thanks.
 
Oct 20, 2006 at 2:31 AM Post #24 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lad27
OK. So if reffering to digital cable we talk coaxial cable. I just wanted to clear the terminology.

Thanks.



Actually, the more expensive and exotic digital cables tend not to follow the coax topology, and while the 75-Ohm coax "should" be the right way to make digital cables, it doesn't mean coax automatically sounds better.

The truth is that the most digital gear's spdif connections/pathways are NOT 75 Ohms; therefore, a true 75 Ohm digital cable may actually sound worse in these situations. Some believe better sound is achieved by keeping the impedance constant, not necessarily at 75 Ohms, i.e. 50 Ohm digital jack, 50 Ohm digital cable, etc.

One of the best-sounding digital cables I've heard happens to be Silversmith Audio silver analogue IC, which is a silver ribbon cable in hollow tubing. This cable has no resemblance whatsoever to the 75-Ohm coax, yet it sounds stupendous. Why? How? Who knows..
 

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