[SomeGuyDude]

   
When I said it goes both ways, I was referring to whether the herd behavior is based on truth or something else.

 
My approach is to take the social proof into account when deciding what to look into, but then be sure to properly test everything in order to find out the truth.

 
It can be based on pretty much anything. In the case of Beats there was a combination of the boutique styling and the idea that "this is what music is supposed to sound like" because they were backed by industry legends and also very expensive (remember, expensive = good). So people heard them and, believing the people who were behind them, felt they were a revelation and "proper audio".
 
We still see that, and it was a big topic in the Nighthawk thread: the idea that "well respected" reviewers in the headphone world can shape what people think headphones "should' sound like, and how many people grit their teeth listening to brittle, piercing headphones because they cost $1500 and all these blogs say they're the best in the world, so obviously I should think they sound amazing.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  It can be based on pretty much anything.

 
Yes, that's what I said. (Whether as in regardless of whether.)

 

[TheTrap]

   
We all are, and we all always are. No one wants to be "behind" their neighbors. "Keeping up with the Joneses" far predates Facebook and iPhones. I wonder how many here had parents who dragged them to church or made sure to put up Christmas lights largely because they didn't want to be the one family who didn't.

 
Hear hear. With the Chinese there is the custom of giving red packets during the Chinese Lunar New Year. However the sheep effect only extends so far as to force everyone to give red packets whether they liked it or not. The kicker is that while it is supposedly "good for your image" if you give generously, it seems that people tend to give as little as possible so as not to "lose out" be giving more than your kids receive.

 

[TheTrap]

   
It can be based on pretty much anything. In the case of Beats there was a combination of the boutique styling and the idea that "this is what music is supposed to sound like" because they were backed by industry legends and also very expensive (remember, expensive = good). So people heard them and, believing the people who were behind them, felt they were a revelation and "proper audio".
 
We still see that, and it was a big topic in the Nighthawk thread: the idea that "well respected" reviewers in the headphone world can shape what people think headphones "should' sound like, and how many people grit their teeth listening to brittle, piercing headphones because they cost $1500 and all these blogs say they're the best in the world, so obviously I should think they sound amazing.

 
Don't get me started on the dozens of snake oil fads that have been sold to people all over the world.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Here's a great example of the herd effect or whatever you want to call it: impressions threads!
 
Be careful about criticizing any headphone in the dedicated thread for it, because these threads tend to be full of fanboys who attack anyone who thinks differently from them.

 

[TheTrap]

  Here's a great example of the herd effect or whatever you want to call it: impressions threads!
 
Be careful about criticizing any headphone in the dedicated thread for it, because these threads tend to be full of fanboys who attack anyone who thinks differently from them.

 
 
While I didn't criticise the actual product itself, I criticised the company (Schiit) and their poor customer service and misleading shipping.
 
Didn't exactly get flamed for the criticism and even had people support me. Might just be a rare exception though.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  While I didn't criticise the actual product itself, I criticised the company (Schiit) and their poor customer service and misleading shipping.
 
Didn't exactly get flamed for the criticism and even had people support me. Might just be a rare exception though.

 
Yep, there's plenty of positive, understanding interaction on this site as well.
 
...But more often than not, if you go onto a headphone impressions thread and talk about how you dislike it, prepare for the flames! hehe
 
(On another note, my own experience with Schiit has been excellent.)

 

[SomeGuyDude]

That's because most "impressions" threads are really just "fans of ____" threads. It's not hard to understand, people who like the product keep it and stick in the thread to chat about it. Those who don't like it trade/return it and move on.
 
Though some of those threads are positively cult-like. The Mikros 90 thread in particular was getting insane with people claiming they were better than summit-fi headphones and needed 500+ hours of burn-in time.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  That's because most "impressions" threads are really just "fans of ____" threads. It's not hard to understand, people who like the product keep it and stick in the thread to chat about it. Those who don't like it trade/return it and move on.
 
Though some of those threads are positively cult-like. The Mikros 90 thread in particular was getting insane with people claiming they were better than summit-fi headphones and needed 500+ hours of burn-in time.

 
Yup. I stick around a few myself. But things would be better if everyone would be more accepting of others' experiences.
 
I owned that one and remember some of the claims about it that made no sense to me, especially things like "It's better than STAX!" Not to my ears. lol

 

[Hutnicks]

Ah yes the Martian Logjams. Thread is still going. Probably better than the new Orpheus for that matter.
 
We are wired to be consensual.  Our very existence relies on it. From the beginnings of language itself we work for consent. It's how we know a chair is a chair and a door is a door. We all agree that this is what these words mean and so it makes our lives easier when interacting with others. Becuase that works we seek to apply the same techniques to other pursuits as well. We wish to be in agreement even when we suspect it is not in our own best interest.
 
 I recently read a study that was done on engineering students. The students who were told to design something and left to do it on their own came up with new and innovative approaches. The students who were shown a bad example of the item to design failed to design a workable item more often. The statistic was that the ones shown the bad example failed 14 times more often than the ones not shown an example at all.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Got a link to the study? I'd love to see it.

 

[Hutnicks]

  Got a link to the study? I'd love to see it.

Sorry. One of those rare off line hard copy paper things.

 

[Giogio]

   
I owned that one and remember some of the claims about it that made no sense to me, especially things like "It's better than STAX!" Not to my ears. lol

Maybe something similar happens with the guys who claim to be able to perceive a difference between this and this player, this and this thing, those who can perceive very clear improvements with this or that optimizer software, etc.
Not saying there are no differences. Just curious how many of those who say to hear them really hear them or just want to hear them.
 

The statistic was that the ones shown the bad example failed 14 times more often than the ones not shown an example at all.

Maybe you can scan the papers
Nice example anyway. It makes sense. But it also depends on the kind of thinking of the subject. Those with a better lateral or critic thinking (who are always trying to think in which other ways something can be done) would probably not be so affected by seeing a bad example. But the others would probably feel somehow "forced" to stick with the kind of approach and would just try to make it better. Being obedient and stay between the line, as they were told to since kid.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Ah yes the Martian Logjams. Thread is still going. Probably better than the new Orpheus for that matter.
 
We are wired to be consensual.  Our very existence relies on it. From the beginnings of language itself we work for consent. It's how we know a chair is a chair and a door is a door. We all agree that this is what these words mean and so it makes our lives easier when interacting with others. Becuase that works we seek to apply the same techniques to other pursuits as well. We wish to be in agreement even when we suspect it is not in our own best interest.

 
LOL! I love funny nicknames.
 
I will have you know that I am sitting on my comfy door as we speak.

 

  Maybe something similar happens with the guys who claim to be able to perceive a difference between this and this player, this and this thing, those who can perceive very clear improvements with this or that optimizer software, etc.
Not saying there are no differences. Just curious how many of those who say to hear them really hear them or just want to hear them.

 
I know what ya mean. I've experimented with many programs. The only player that I am 100% sure sounds different from the others is HQPlayer, but it's a DSP player. (Here are the settings I used.) It somehow does make music sound more realistic to me, but it's expensive and the interface is just awful.
 
Here are some interesting measurements that indicate programs like JPLAY and Fidelizer don't make an audible difference:
 
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/08/measurements-audiophile-sound-and.html
 
He also tested Windows 10 with the same conclusion...but for some reason, when I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10, the sound quality dramatically improved! And I made sure that no Windows audio enhancements were activated and that I was using the same bit-perfect software and settings. Some people think it's a driver issue.

 

[Giogio]

The only player that I am 100% sure sounds different from the others is HQPlayer,  
He also tested Windows 10 with the same conclusion...but for some reason, when I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10, the sound quality dramatically improved! And I made sure that no Windows audio enhancements were activated and that I was using the same bit-perfect software and settings. Some people think it's a driver issue.

Yes  had tried that one too. In that moment I was not impressed.
Does it offer the possibility to load VST plugins? I am not sure I could be good without my actual VST chain on Foobar.
 
I have refused to use Win10 after a couple of days of free upgrade. Never ever imagined I would refuse a free upgrade of anything.
And I am one of those who felt ok with Vista and even better with 7, so, not a conservative.
But the violations of privacy, bloatware and being forced to link account like in Android, and all that useless touchscreen stuff, plus the lesser configurability of the system, made me hate the 10.
Pity if it sounds better.