The Sheep Effect
Jan 24, 2016 at 3:33 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 51

Giogio

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It sounds like the title of a movie and it may well be in the future, who knows.
 
It refers to the fact that (most) people tend to follow other people.
There could be many possible example but I give you one: movies reviews.
If it would be possible to have two groups of 10000 people each, reading the SAME movie reviews in two offline versions of IMDB, with the second version having completely opposite votes for each review (very much downvoting the reviews very much upvoted in the first version, and vice-versa), I am SURE more than I am sure that tomorrow the sun will rise again, that the vast majority of people will tend to vote positively the reviews with more positive votes, and negatively the one with more negative votes.
 
Why does this happen?
 
Jan 24, 2016 at 7:12 PM Post #3 of 51

Music Alchemist

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect
 
It happens because people tend to lack inner strength and have few thoughts of their own.
 
I gleefully bash on stuff people like here that I happen to dislike or like less than other things, and I don't care whether others like it or not, because I'm honest and strong.
cool.gif
 
 
Jan 24, 2016 at 7:24 PM Post #4 of 51

VNandor

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  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect
 
It happens because most people have very little inner strength and very few thoughts of their own.
 
I gleefully bash on stuff people like here that I happen to dislike or like less than other things, and I don't care whether others like it or not, because I'm honest and strong.
cool.gif
 

Which could come across as being stupid and arrogant because let's be honest some people can't accept the others' opinion.
rolleyes.gif

 
Jan 24, 2016 at 7:27 PM Post #5 of 51

Music Alchemist

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  Which could come across as being stupid and arrogant because let's be honest some people can't accept the others' opinion.
rolleyes.gif

 
I accept everyone's opinion as their own experience and so on...but I also have my own opinions which rely upon myself and not others. If I hate something that someone else loves, I'll say so and explain why. If they disagree, that's perfectly fine.
 
Jan 24, 2016 at 8:23 PM Post #6 of 51

Giogio

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I accept everyone's opinion as their own experience and so on...but I also have my own opinions which rely upon myself and not others. If I hate something that someone else loves, I'll say so and explain why. If they disagree, that's perfectly fine.


yeah, I suppose he meant that this would be seen as arrogant because other people are not so good in accepting other opinions. Not you.
Or I think so.
I do not think that expressing one's opinion directly means being arrogant or lacking respect for others' opinion.
But, I am often seen as arrogant and opinionated by some people.
 
 
  Wouldn't you feel uncomfortable about bashing on something which is liked by an overwhelming majority?


no. not even a little tiny bit.
I also do not particularly enjoy nor specifically try to contradict others' opinions just for sport.
Just to follow the example with movies, I have rated high or low any kind of movie, no matter if commercial or indie, loved or hated, famous or unknown. Just according to how I felt it.
I do the same when I rate and review bt headphones. Although there, to be more professional and have a chance to get more test units from Companies, I have learned to be less temperamental and direct and unforgiven in my comments. I have learned to be more moderate. Which anyway showed me that being too temperamental was not needed and was even negative for a real objectivity. After all, there ARE people who like what I find s..t. So, as a reviewer, I have to try to describe without judge too much.
 
But in life, how many people would take the side of someone who is being heavily criticised, or criticise someone who is widely loved?
How many would defend someone who is constantly bullied?
What about smoking and drinking and doing stupid things just because the others do that, to be accepted? Although this is mostly during the adolescence and we may say people are not yet mature enough to have their own personality.
 
But, unfortunately, this does not really change much with age, for many people.
 
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:53 AM Post #7 of 51

VNandor

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I don't know what people think about it in general.
 
However here are some reasons to act as a "sheep" that I can think of:
 
In life openly criticizing someone who is widely loved can cause a lot of unnecessary conflicts. Usually one might not have the patience and time to be honest with everyone and explain why he dislike something. Personally I try to be honest with my friends but nut necessarily with strangers or people I barely know if I think it could cause a conflict. Waste of time and effort.
 
How are you supposed to defend someone who is being bullied (for no reason) by a crowd?
 
What's the problem with people who want to be accepted by others? It doesn't mean they don't have a personality it just means that they want to be accepted and they're willing to pay to cost for it. Sure, drinking and smoking can be bad for health but I suppose most people enjoy it at least.
 
Jan 25, 2016 at 11:23 AM Post #9 of 51

Giogio

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Personally I try to be honest with my friends but nut necessarilty with strangers or people I barely know if I think it could cause a conflict. Waste of time and effort.  
How are you supposed to defend someone who is being bullied (for no reason) by a crowd?
 
What's the problem with people who want to be accepted by others?

I agree. I feel and do the same.
I am old enough not to be so naive to think that one should ALWAYS be transparent. It may in some situation of real life be a waste of time and effort, I agree.
But I was also referring to situations where one does not have a direct confront with other people. Like in internet.
 
If or bullied you mean just bullied, like at school, which does not imply a massacre and people with knives and ready to kill whoever, I do not see what should prevent you from intervene.
Even if you fail and you become a second target, it is better than nothing. And it may convince somebody else to intervene.
In case of real danger of death, well, I suppose it depends on the situation, who is attacked, by whom, where, and my actual life situation (if I am walking with my pregnant wife, if I am single and alone and I feel more indignation for what I see than fear to die...).
 
There is no "problem" in wanting to be accepted.
But as said, I am old enough to have tried a few things and came to the conclusion that it works better when you are accepted for what you are.
Anyway if one smokes/drink for pleasure, he is not conforming to others, he does what he likes.
Although, most people start those things to please others. Which is a pity, because f they had not started, they would have never missed them. And their life would be healthier.
 
Jan 25, 2016 at 7:30 PM Post #10 of 51

SomeGuyDude

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If our species hadn't learned to trust collective opinion we would never have survived the jungle.
 
People forget we have the same brain capacity we had 50,000 years ago. We're no smarter inherently than our primal ancestors. If everyone in the den was avoiding a certain bush you would probably figure they knew why, and vice versa if everyone was eating from a certain tree you'd assume it was safe. That carries forward to today.
 
If you talk to 10 people and every single one of them tells you a movie is good, you're going to think there obviously has to be some merit for ten out of ten people to have enjoyed it, so even as you're watching your brain is telling you "this was fun for everyone I talked to, so it has to be good" and thus you'll enjoy it more.
 
Ours is a social species, based upon groups and tribes. No one is truly immune to it. Even those who try to avoid herd mentality end up, eventually, joining their own herd. That's how you unironically get indie/outsider groups who tout their independence but all drift as a unit.
 
Jan 25, 2016 at 7:36 PM Post #11 of 51

Music Alchemist

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  If our species hadn't learned to trust collective opinion we would never have survived the jungle.
 
People forget we have the same brain capacity we had 50,000 years ago. We're no smarter inherently than our primal ancestors. If everyone in the den was avoiding a certain bush you would probably figure they knew why, and vice versa if everyone was eating from a certain tree you'd assume it was safe. That carries forward to today.
 
If you talk to 10 people and every single one of them tells you a movie is good, you're going to think there obviously has to be some merit for ten out of ten people to have enjoyed it, so even as you're watching your brain is telling you "this was fun for everyone I talked to, so it has to be good" and thus you'll enjoy it more.
 
Ours is a social species, based upon groups and tribes. No one is truly immune to it. Even those who try to avoid herd mentality end up, eventually, joining their own herd. That's how you unironically get indie/outsider groups who tout their independence but all drift as a unit.

 
True, but social proof can go both ways. Marketing twists reality so wonderfully. Just look at Beats. XD
 
Jan 25, 2016 at 8:24 PM Post #12 of 51

SomeGuyDude

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True, but social proof can go both ways. Marketing twists reality so wonderfully. Just look at Beats. XD

 
Well like I said, we're a species still operating with the same brain we had when we were living in the mud. We can't act like herd mentality doesn't exist in the audiophile world, either. I'd be willing to bet a lot of what's said about cable and tube upgrades is no different than wine connoisseurs being fooled into giving different reviews of the same wine dyed different colors.
 
Because, again, it's all about which group people decide to follow.
 
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:05 PM Post #13 of 51

Music Alchemist

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  Well like I said, we're a species still operating with the same brain we had when we were living in the mud. We can't act like herd mentality doesn't exist in the audiophile world, either. I'd be willing to bet a lot of what's said about cable and tube upgrades is no different than wine connoisseurs being fooled into giving different reviews of the same wine dyed different colors.
 
Because, again, it's all about which group people decide to follow.

 
When I said it goes both ways, I was referring to whether the herd behavior is based on truth or something else.
biggrin.gif

 
My approach is to take the social proof into account when deciding what to look into, but then be sure to properly test everything in order to find out the truth.
 
Jan 26, 2016 at 12:18 AM Post #14 of 51

TheTrap

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  If our species hadn't learned to trust collective opinion we would never have survived the jungle.
 
People forget we have the same brain capacity we had 50,000 years ago. We're no smarter inherently than our primal ancestors. If everyone in the den was avoiding a certain bush you would probably figure they knew why, and vice versa if everyone was eating from a certain tree you'd assume it was safe. That carries forward to today.
 
If you talk to 10 people and every single one of them tells you a movie is good, you're going to think there obviously has to be some merit for ten out of ten people to have enjoyed it, so even as you're watching your brain is telling you "this was fun for everyone I talked to, so it has to be good" and thus you'll enjoy it more.
 
Ours is a social species, based upon groups and tribes. No one is truly immune to it. Even those who try to avoid herd mentality end up, eventually, joining their own herd. That's how you unironically get indie/outsider groups who tout their independence but all drift as a unit.

 
Well said. I confess that I used to be guilty of this in my younger days and may still be guilty of this today.
 
It seems that the youth are especially susceptible to this effect as seen with the iPhone for example. Friend has it, so I must have it to. Just to be "in".
 
Jan 26, 2016 at 12:35 AM Post #15 of 51

SomeGuyDude

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Well said. I confess that I used to be guilty of this in my younger days and may still be guilty of this today.
 
It seems that the youth are especially susceptible to this effect as seen with the iPhone for example. Friend has it, so I must have it to. Just to be "in".

 
We all are, and we all always are. No one wants to be "behind" their neighbors. "Keeping up with the Joneses" far predates Facebook and iPhones. I wonder how many here had parents who dragged them to church or made sure to put up Christmas lights largely because they didn't want to be the one family who didn't.
 

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