The Sennheiser Orpheus Experience or the day I went to a holistic health clinic to listen to the best headphones in the world.
Feb 26, 2016 at 7:56 AM Post #16 of 81
  Awesome impression! Thanks for sharing, @kaiserh!
wink_face.gif
 


I am sure the new Orpeus sounds very good indeed.But why do you let people listen to Johnny Cash in rbd quality on headphones that are supposed to possibly the best in the world?
To me it seems like dining at a really nice, very expensive restaurant but eat a Macdonalds hamburger!!!!!
I accidentally heard some rbcd  low res Lou Reed via the new HD800S a while ago it sounded absolutely terrible!
But via hi res classical it was a very good headphone!
What are you thinking at Sennheiser?
Bratwurst?
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM Post #17 of 81
does it get any better than listening to a recording of johnny cash on a red book quality cd through the orpheus 2 while wolfing down a bratwurst? well it could if it's washed down with a pitcher of beer.
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 11:18 AM Post #19 of 81
Well, as far as I know Hurt from Johnny Cash is only available in CD quality. At least I coultn't find it high res.

The test was to compare the same song by different artists. However in really high end audio for a client you need to show them the system with good and normal quality inputs. Its all fine and good to have a speaker or headphone sound good if the source is very good, its a different story to have it sound good with a mediocre quality source.
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 11:44 AM Post #20 of 81
Wanted to add something about the world of the very wealthy who buy high end. A good portion of them just want the best. If you are willing to pay half a million for a high end system or getting a headphone that gives you the same or better without the cost and effort of sound optimizing the room, cables, observing optimal distance, etc. then 75k for the Orpheus is not that much. The rule of thumb is that you spend about one tenth for a headphone system in sound quality than for a speaker system of equal sound quality. However those "folks" often have songs they or a spouse play from really bad sources and if that sounds bad the professional hifi installer will never hear the end of it. At those levels it needs to elivate everything. Sure ****ty source there is not that muc you can do, but you will find very few non audiophile purchase any system that does not have "it makes everything sound better" quality. Pure analytical systems are for audiophiles and few will have 75K to spare.

I remember a friend of mine installing a 300K GBP Nautilus system in London but then his Russian client wanted a Karaoke machine installed and complained that it and the ipod sounded, not so good...

They ended up installing a German Physiks system with some rediculously expensive DAC that also solved the problems with sounding good everywhere in the room (omi directional speakers).

Don'T forget the Orpheus also has some superb DACs, 8 giving you four per channel. For your average buyer this is not the level of analysing sound that is interesting but sitting down with a glass of Louis XV and enjoying a good song that moves you. Totally different world and actually really difficult to make **** into gold. Not that the Johnny Cash album is bad, its not, but it is not 192k.

Unforgiving is not what I heard about the Orpheus.

I am quite sure kairserh can attest that the regular CD also sounded very good. Hopefully I will get a chance to hear them for myself at the High End in Munich....

The real analogy would be ordering a burger at a three Michelin star restaurant and the chef turning beef and bread into a sensual delight. A good chef as speakers can do a lot.

Imagine you buy headphones that only sound good for 384Khz!!!

Cheers
WB
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 5:39 PM Post #21 of 81
I'm fairly firmly in the camp that a well mastered and dithered 16-bit, 44.1kHz recording is as good as my ears can hear. Whilst I didn't get the chance to listen to any compressed audio on the Orpheus, on regular equipment I don't think I can tell the difference between a 256 AAC and CD-DA. I doubt that I could really hear the difference between CD-DA and high-res audio - the Daft Punk was selected in high-res because of the better mastering and higher dynamic range.
 
I had a number of friends make helpful suggestions before the event about all the different music they thought I should listen to - whilst I'm sure they were all examples of well mastered and good quality music, the simple fact was that I needed to listen to music that I'd heard before and was familiar with. There'd be virtually no reason for me to go and seek out some fabulous acoustic jazz or classical music with a DR of 20 as I would have never have heard it before and would have had nothing to compare it to.
 
I truly wish that I had more time with the system, but that simply was not possible with the number of people that Sennheiser had queued up to audition it. I'm very thankful that I got as much time as I did, and even more so listen to music that I chose, music that I was familiar with.
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 5:43 PM Post #22 of 81
   
Thanks for sharing your listening experience! Do you happen to know how the Bryston was connected to the Orpheus? SPDIF, AES/EBU, or USB?


No, I'm sorry, I didn't ask how they had it hooked up. 
I did get one photo that shows part of the rear of the amplifier/base unit and there is nothing in the USB, Coaxial or SPDIF inputs, there is what looks like a pair of heavy-duty XLR cables in the far right-hand input on the rear, but I don't know if this is a balanced analogue input or the AES/EBU input.
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 7:01 PM Post #23 of 81
  ...there is what looks like a pair of heavy-duty XLR cables in the far right-hand input on the rear...

 
Thanks. It is my understanding, based on some close up photographs, that the right-hand rear section is labeled Analog In for balanced XLR and single-ended RCA. I looked closely at those photographs again, and the section labeled Digital In does not have an AES/EBU (XLR) input. It looks like the digital inputs are USB, SPDIF (RCA) and Optical.
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 7:14 PM Post #24 of 81


Sennheiser Orpheus II vs JPS Labs Abyss AB-1266 first impressions and comparison:

The day began with a text message from the Swedish Sennheiser sales manager that the schedule for the listening sessions at the Waterfront hotell is a closed session only for press journalists, and that they had 30 bookings of the day.
So he was very uncertain if everyone could have a listening to the Orpheus II...:confused::confused:⛈⛈

Next time is at the Munich HighEnd he said ;(





But, it is a shame to the one who just give up , so i called some of my contacts and pulled some strings and manage to get the second last session with the Orpheus II . :tada::sweat_smile::sweat_smile:

I had a listening to the Abyss with the SuperConductor HP cable at the High End fair Event one hour before the Orpheus II session, so i had the Abyss sound fresh in my memory when i entered the small Sennheiser room on the 4th floor in the Waterfront Hotell.





I sat down in the sofa next to the phones and the Sennheiser Orpheus head developer/Designer gave me a small presentation about the build and spec of the huge gold coloured nano diaphragms (costs 3000 Euro each) and the small but powerful 780 volts power amps integrated in the headphones for zero resistant and loss in that short distance . It is like the amp are welded on to the driver almost.
( I was forbidden to take any pictures on the parts he showed me)

The diaphragms have more than twice the area of a normal dynamic headphone because it is a electrostatic type, you need bigger area if you want a to achieve a deep shivering bass and airy sound.

The finishing was overall nice with the marble and the motoring door and tubes going up and down. But i think the headphones felt a little to plastic-light and a very similar to the HD600 / HD650 in the felling of the headband, but it got a nicer micro fibre / skinn clothing against the head.

The Orpheus was connected to a T+A CD/SACD 3000 HV player with some
Wire World XLR cables with Neutrik plugs.




No fancy power filtering or anything like it where used.

Listening & Comparison:

The Sennheiser reference SACD sampler disc were inserted and out came the sound with the volume set to 12 o'clock = Medium High level.



Tracks that was played:

1. Wolkenmeer - Beo Brockhausen
2. No Sanctuary Here - Chris Jones
3. When I Didn't Care - Sara K.
4. Closer - Steve Strauss
5. I Love Paris - The Bassface Swing Trio


The first thing that came to mind was the big warm and meaty Magna Planar sound !?

The headphones did shiver and shake in the lower base notes in comparison to the dead silent Abyss. Here i think we need some dampening padding in the final version i said to the Sennheiser designer and he said that he had also head it, but it was hard to fix it.

The sound spectra is from over your ears and down to your jaw very big, but not so big soundstage as i hade imagine. It plays and present the lead singer / instruments and choir very narrow my ears, so you do not get the feeling that it plays from a distance away. Good or bad is your own reference. But it got a bigger band sound than the Abyss, but not as clean bass or detailed in the upper mid / trable.

Here both Abyss and HD800 are much cleaner and got a wider soundstadge.

The Orpheus II sound where not so delicat or exclusive as the Abyss has, and i missed out the pitched black background, it was more some sort of distortion / noise hiss in the background.


The bass is very deep and have a great impact, so this is the first electrostatic headphones with some balls as the designer / developer said:smile:
And he is true!

But the control and the fine inner detail resolution, dept , bass quality , black background goes to the Abyss



Orpheus wins in the big band feeling.

The Abyss was the best i had heard before, but i think Orpheus plays even more dynamic and you got a bigger sound but less controlled and precession.

It doesn't ones get sharp or veil, it is very warm and lively, but misses the fine detail in the same way.




So my conclution is:
If the Abyss had a bigger diaphragm driver it will be on top of the Orpheus II from my listening perspective!

I also think in the end, the Orpheus was a fun and very warm headphone with great drive to listening to, but the Abyss winns in the end with more control , fine detai and infra pure controlled bass.
The Abyss sounds more like a labratory testing instrument in comparison to the Orpheus II, who sounds more like a heavy tuned HD650 on steroids, with a warm livley sound, but does not got the last in control over the diaphragm, and does not sound electrostatic, more like hybrid btw magna planar / Electrostatic.

It could also be that the Orpheus II pre amp stage who got tubes that gives the noisier background and warmer than normal sound sound i think.

So i did find the headphones warmer and slight more playful, but i would not pay the acclaimed 55.000 Euro price tag, it is the headphones that is the nice pearl, but you cant drive them with any other amp or buy the headphones separatly, so you have to buy the hole set.

So in the end i keep my Abyss with a good amp like the Wells Audio HeadTrip as a winner, because the sound is better overal.

Read more about the Abyss + HeadTrip + DAVE combo $35.000 system here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/775550/wells-audio-headtrip-amp/0_50#post_12376524


It was great fun to hear this very rare and special headphone nevertheless !

(Im laying in bed with 39 celsius on the thermometer :thermometer_face::thermometer_face:, so im sorry for my English)
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 8:02 PM Post #25 of 81
[...]

Listening & Comparison:

The Sennheiser reference SACD sampler disc were inserted and out came the sound with the volume set to 12 o'clock = Medium High level.



Tracks that was played:

1. Wolkenmeer - Beo Brockhausen
2. No Sanctuary Here - Chris Jones
3. When I Didn't Care - Sara K.
4. Closer - Steve Strauss
5. I Love Paris - The Bassface Swing Trio


The first thing that came to mind was the big warm and meaty Magna Planar sound !?

The headphones did shiver and shake in the lower base notes in comparison to the dead silent Abyss. Here i think we need some dampening padding in the final version i said to the Sennheiser designer and he said that he had also head it, but it was hard to fix it.
[...].
The bass is very deep and have a great impact, so this is the first electrostatic headphones with some balls as the designer / developer said:smile:
And he is true!
[...]


 
I am little surprised, that bass signal from SACD 'HEAR THE DIFFERENCE' (German: 'Klang Von Meisterhand') by label Stockfisch (2009), which was basically dedicated to 'show' Sennheiser HD800 capabilities, could make new ORPHEUS 'shiver and shake' ?! Interesting which track contained such strong bass signal and/or was volume set to too high??
It could be, that driver 'excursion' on Orpheus is longer [it produces more bass volume] than on other electrostats, possibly, and that's the reason for slight 'shake'...
I'm yet to find any commercial recording, that could put HD800 really to 'shake' (with 'normal' volume)
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 8:28 PM Post #26 of 81
The Orpheus II got massive bass, even more bass than the Abyss or any other HiFi headphone on the market i have listen to, but the quality comes in front of quantity in this case.

The volume was set buy the designer at almost 12 o'clock and it was track 2 No Sanctuary Here with Chris Jones who made it shiver and shake without the control you have guessed by this world class headphone. It was not the State-of-the-art driver, it was the headphone chassi that wasent built for this kind of drivers/diaphragms.

Its was like a V12 Ferrari engine in a Honda Civic chassi kind of feeling.

Track 3. Sara K

Great low end vivid sound !
But was a little up in your face, no dept almost, with poorly control and fine detail that i miss out.

And so on..

Very nice to have a benchmark nevertheless!

Some extra curiosa:

The powerplant was a $3,99 powerline from IKEA first of all :wink:
I had a Isotek Sirius under my arm, and they was joking and asked if they could borrow it of me, but in the next frase they said that the Orpheus II pre-amp had a HF/RF medical class filter inside, so it was not a problem.
 
Feb 26, 2016 at 10:53 PM Post #27 of 81
Hi @Beolab,
 
Very interesting experience sharing. Thank you.
 
I know what offers HeadTrip.
I'm more tasted to large phalanxes on symphonic works and actually, but I didn't still hear the Orpheus II, I found the most accurate headphone system being Abyss + Egoista VIVA + TotalDAC D1 Integral (quoting for 25000€, a bargain with the server included).
http://www.head-fi.org/t/729408/viva-egoista-845-set-tube-amplifier-10k-headphone-masterpiece
 
But I'm not sure of the commonly used argument that an headphone system costing 10 times less would compete with speakers for spatialisation issues.
Having room for 75000€, I would go wide:
http://vivaaudio.com/en/products/credenza/
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 12:52 AM Post #28 of 81
NIN - Hurt (High-res)
Johnny Cash - Hurt (CD Quality)
Daft Punk - Lose Yourself to Dance (High-res)
Daft Punk - Get Lucky (High-res)
Johnny Cash - Personal Jesus (CD quality)
 
interesting choice of tracks to review the ultimate headphone...
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 1:43 AM Post #29 of 81
Well, as far as I know Hurt from Johnny Cash is only available in CD quality. At least I coultn't find it high res.

The test was to compare the same song by different artists. However in really high end audio for a client you need to show them the system with good and normal quality inputs. Its all fine and good to have a speaker or headphone sound good if the source is very good, its a different story to have it sound good with a mediocre quality source.


The only way to make a mediocre quality source to sound "subjectivly better" is by filtering and colouration. Absolutely NOT via anything which is actually more transparent ie really better!
Facts are facts,but tastes differ.
 
Feb 27, 2016 at 9:45 AM Post #30 of 81
audio industry's production 'reality' here:
 
...'Some consumers seem to want the "original" recordings and they want them at 24/96 or 24/192. This is "nuts" because it's not possible to record 24bits at any sample rate, about 14bits is the absolute maximum in practice.
Of course we can write our 14bits to a 24bit file format or to say a 1,024bit file format (if someone invents such a format) but you're still only going to get a maximum of 14bits no matter what file format you write it to!
The situation isn't much better with sample rates. The initial "resolution" of a commercial recording is probably somewhere around 4bit/15mHz but we can't even mix/master in that format, let alone distribute, it has to be converted (decimated)!
Maybe consumers don't want the original recordings, maybe they want the original masters? Sorry but you can't have those either, they only exist virtually, in a mix/mastering environment, to turn them in to actual audio files we have to loose at least half the bits.
Plus, processing commonly up-samples and down-samples, a lot of the time we the engineers don't even know what sample rate/s are occurring within our mixes/masters.
Also notice that in this paragraph I haven't even mentioned what is or isn't audible!'...
 
PS.  Sentenses above are from someone who has experience from the 'first-hand'
 

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