[WB2016]

 
The only way to make a mediocre quality source to sound "subjectivly better" is by filtering and colouration. Absolutely NOT via anything which is actually more transparent ie really better!
Facts are facts,but tastes differ.

 
 
Oh I absolutely agree with you from a purist Point of view, but I was talking about the typical or better the majority of Orpheus buyers. But there are Systems for audiohiles that are brutally honest, yet few such Systems will be installed for non audiophiles. The ideal Situation is finding and selling a System that either "magically" makes bad Audio filtering and is true to good sources. Often this is acomplished with two Subsystems, strangely going high end for analog and more filtering for digital in such Systems, often with the digital being streamed through the whole house. Now with more and more hig res I am not sure how they are resolving These issues.
 
P.S. Appologize for the autocorrect which happens when I use IE and want to Quote.

 

[WB2016]

  Hi @Beolab,
 
Very interesting experience sharing. Thank you.
 
I know what offers HeadTrip.
I'm more tasted to large phalanxes on symphonic works and actually, but I didn't still hear the Orpheus II, I found the most accurate headphone system being Abyss + Egoista VIVA + TotalDAC D1 Integral (quoting for 25000€, a bargain with the server included).
http://www.head-fi.org/t/729408/viva-egoista-845-set-tube-amplifier-10k-headphone-masterpiece
 
But I'm not sure of the commonly used argument that an headphone system costing 10 times less would compete with speakers for spatialisation issues.
Having room for 75000€, I would go wide:
http://vivaaudio.com/en/products/credenza/

 
Thanks cladane,
 
have not heard that System. Looks interesting, I will pass it along. The high costs of Speaker Systems are room Treatment, power conditioning and often having to lay extra power lines, ensuring interferences e.g. EMF are reduced, especially if they stream across the whole house, laying Ethernet not wifi, etc... This can be an immense cost especially if you have a spouse with very specific views on what is acceptable and room Treatments in bad rooms can be really, really difficult and expensive. "So you are sure you want to Keep all of that marble??? Oh you want more exposed Gold and glass!!!" Sonically mapping the room and then correcting will often lead to less Sound Quality so to compensate for that you Need even higher Quality, Forget the 4 to 20K for such Services if it is done professionally.
 
The other issue is just needing much more power that is clean, especially with rooms that are larger than 30m² and very high ceilings... Then there is the issue of cables, when a meter of Nordost Odin 2 will cost you 24K GBP that really adds up quick in big rooms. There will always be exceptions to that rule, but recently tested it in a 120K build that was beautiful and superb but when the owner wasn't there we pulled out a Stax 009 and it was still better when listened to in the exact same spot. You are probably right that there will be Systems that adjust to the room and remain very good, which will definitely Change that Ratio. That is probably the future especially now that headphones have really taken off. But it is a decent rule of thumb even when buying a 2000 GBP Speaker System. Hell, a Philips Fidelio for 200€ can often beat that in most rooms. Also for this calculus the sources are not considered.
 
Often People will get a System to entertain guests and then get a really nice headphone System if they have audiophile tendencies, but in High End installs headphones still Play a pretty low role it isn't something that is easy to Show off so People tend to spend much less, now if headphones Keep getting that much better maybe this will Change. And this is the unfortunate reality a lot of People with the means to buy the high End Systems will get the best for the Label of being "the best or most expensive" and they don't have the capacity to really value them. C'est la vie but it pays for most of the high end, so what are we complaining.
 
Cheers
WB

 

[cladane]

Hello WB,
 
Don't know where you live but looks like it would be interesting to discuss about your expertise in audio settings.
 
Right about strings and our beloved wifes and it is a common argument nowadays.
 
There are now very skilled room correction systems like Trinnov but you are right final sound can end up 'personalized'.
 
My main reproach concerning headphones versus speakers would be about spatialization. I don't know how I could hear a more natural front head sound. Reading your report I understand that's not a strength of the new Orpheus.
Actually I bought an Abyss setup for its image presentation. Like you wrote could them be improved ?
 
Will be pleased to read your comment about Egoista and TotalDAC devices.
 
C.D

 

[Redcarmoose]

This thread was a nice read. Not one but two Orpheus reviews.

Just like with race cars and spacecraft this level of technology is important to everyone and every budget. We can always expect some of the R&D to change product application. If anything the listening opinions go to show the technology is moving the right direction. Just reaching world class levels, thus showing our industry is moving forward.


Obviously the file and music used is important to delineate the skill of playback. Again though it seems to be existing in a number of qualities with some files just plan questionable. That said music is personal.

It's a challage at times to make old known classic recordings shine. It's a challenge too, for equipment to be able to run the sonic course with the most dynamic of files.

There are rich folks and rich audiophile folks, when you meet em, you know in about 3 seconds. Not everyone can be as crazy as the members on Head-Fi. the world couldn't take it. Some want just to own the best and some want to truly listen to the best, noodles anyone?




Orpheus 2
Maybe the biggest surprise was all the talk here of bass energy. It seems either people's ideas of the audiophile signature are changing or the equipment is maybe able to do more? Whatever the reality, I hope to get a test session some day.

 

[WB2016]

Hello CD,

currently mainly residing in Vienna, but tend to move up and down from the UK, Germany, NL, Austria and Italia a lot. My experience with High End comes from a long time friend of mine who is one of the premier audio installers in the UK. Actually I should say extremely discreet high end installers. I worked for him for a bit and still deal with install customer support in the German speaking countries at times for clients that need the hands on experience. (Actually mainly fixing things such as unplugged equipment by cleaning ladies, not that glamorous, and it takes a lot of time on location, which my friend doesn't have and keeping the clients happy. Its all about word of mouth and trust.) There are a lot of Russians and Ukrainians that are buying additional property in Germany and Austria. I am very good with clients and can hold my liquor which is culturally essential for such relationships Actually we might think of them as low brow but they are both. For example the russian with the kareokee setup actually has really good ears but he needs to also entertain professionally/socially. He sees a lot of stuff as voodoo but if improves sound he will buy it. Very funny guy.

I have not actively been involved with the trends the last three years after finishing my doctorate so I am notmyself familiar with the VivaAudio line, but I will pass it along and see what I hear back.

On the totalDACs, yes they are truely superb. Exceeding the BB1704 DACs in many people's opinion. This is actually one of those DACs that seems to even get the most out of standard CD. Client before he bought it "Wait what that isn't SACD??? You are messing with me right???" Very nice review in the German High End magazine Hifistatement.

I believe I listened to the tube version. Oh and this is funny: all truedacs, last I heard, that were installed by my friend were with bass boost, also for audiophiles. Cost around 25% more. Seems to be THE feature for having parties. Prices are around 10K€ for the truedac I believe and the technology is similar to what is being used by Lavry and MSB. Maybe that will get you more of the Orpheus bass in the Abysm

Using that with a Gaudi MK II and they will be installing additional bass dampening in the house.

Well it could be worth a try for the DAC, if the TotalDAC doesn't do it no sure any amount of money will, YMMV, and there may be other recent products I am not familiar with. I really don't have the time unless I hear of something superb or am invited to an install.

Unfortunately I have not heard the Abysm myself, so I cannot give you feedback on them. Its not really that well know, installers mostly deal with speakers and Sennheiser is a name that is known. All that said, things are looking good to be able to hear the Orpheus at the Munich High End during the vendor day, I will keep my fingers crossed. Sure is interesting that the Abysm can potentially hold its own with the Orpheus.

Regarding image presentation, not sure if you are running SS, hybrid or a tube speaker amplifier. I have heard some very good reports on increasing the image presentation in various headphones using the EAR Yoshino tube amps built by Paravichini, who is the tube god in the UK (and tube king for the rest of the world http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/1107parav/ ) for the quality and especially durability really reasonably priced. Mostly HE-6 that had more imaging using the tube speaker amps. Be warned they are brutally neutral and honest. Not necessarily what I would listen to at home, but if you want detail, speed and image presentation, maybe something to audition. They are famous from production through to presentation, being an insider tip for recording equipment as well.

I am very particular to the few things I know that are really exceptional but it is difficult for me to compare it to a lot of standard or new equipment

Please, run evvverything in your home in your setup and audition it for a while. But maybe that could give you some further ideas if you are in the EU.

Sorry I will likely not be of as much help as you imagine.

Cheers,
WB

 

[WB2016]

Hello CD,

if you want to auditon any Tim Paravicini equipment it might be a good idea to do it sooner than later. I heard he may be retiring in the near future.

Take Care,
HD

 

[WB2016]

Hello WB,


 


Don't know where you live but looks like it would be interesting to discuss about your expertise in audio settings.


 


Right about strings and our beloved wifes and it is a common argument nowadays.


 


There are now very skilled room correction systems like Trinnov but you are right final sound can end up 'personalized'.


 


My main reproach concerning headphones versus speakers would be about spatialization. I don't know how I could hear a more natural front head sound. Reading your report I understand that's not a strength of the new Orpheus.


Actually I bought an Abyss setup for its image presentation. Like you wrote could them be improved ?


 


Will be pleased to read your comment about Egoista and TotalDAC devices.


 


C.D

 


Hello CD just notice the quote is not working with the new security settings of Firefox. See reply for your post above.

Cheers
WB

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Nah, I don't know... I'm sure they sound really good but I still think Beats must be better. After all, most famous people like artists and athletes/footballers use Beats and there must be a reason for it. After all, most successful (and rich) people could easily afford this but they still prefer Beats. Also I think that "thingy" on the table will be too large heavy to carry around while commuting.


 

 

[WB2016]

Nah, I don't know... I'm sure they sound really good but I still think Beats must be better. After all, most famous people like artists and athletes/footballers use Beats and there must be a reason for it. After all, most successful (and rich) people could easily afford this but they still prefer Beats. Also I think that "thingy" on the table will be too large heavy to carry around while commuting.








 

 


You are absolutely right. However the Sennheiser got a bit of a rep even in the rap circles by 2chainz doing a video on them. Pretty much perfect description of the phenomenon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7hdB32_miw

On the other hand it is absolutely fun to run some of Dr. Dre's Chronic LP on a 400K+ German Physiks Gaudi MK2 system with bass boosting. Sweet, Sweet sacrilege but sometimes low brow has its charms too...

Its almost as if the system breathes a sigh of relief and the woofers finally get to wake up. It could be an illusion but the bass sounded much better after that We had a blast with the owner.

Cheers,
WB

 

[dharma]

Interesting comparison... some hp-s mentioned in this thread involved!
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/799494/totl-hp-shootout-2-abyss-hek-hex-hd800s-hd800-heavy-mod-hd800-stock-ygg-rok-stack

 

[Trevayne10]

Yet all of this could be for naught, if one's hearing is less than stellar (i.e., flat spots throughout various parts of the spectrum). Jeez, I'd be happy if my hearing was 30 - 12 KHz +/- 5db all the way across.
 
But $50,000 for headphones?  C'mon....something as trivial as poor ear hygiene could temporarily wreck your hearing (i.e., too much wax in the ear canals - impaction), or even just a sinus infection or sore throat could mess up your hearing...blocked eustachian tubes, etc.
 
The point is:  We don't have $50,000 dollar ear drums. Our sense of hearing is a very dynamic, fickle and unreliable thing, at best.  We don't have "reference" hearing apparatus, and never will.
 
Even if my personal worth was $20 million dollars USD (which it's not), I wouldn't be inclined to buy these $50,000 Sennsheisers.
 
As it is right now, I'm quite happy & content with my cheap, junky, Samson SR-950s and Panasonic RP-HTF600-S cans (both with velour ear pads), both of which I bought off Amazon for no more than $40 USD each (and with shipping).
 
I probably draw the line at around $1,200 USD for a set of headphones. Would I love a set of Sennheiser HD-800s phones?  No doubt. I can see myself "never looking back", once I tried them. But I doubt that my hearing is sufficiently acute and pristine to justify even that expenditure. I've been in too many rock bands, played too many gigs, and been to too many concerts.  So it's the $40 dollar Amazon.com specials for me.
 
And I don't think I'll ever look back.  ; )

 

[VandyMan]

 
As it is right now, I'm quite happy & content with my cheap, junky, Samson SR-950s and Panasonic RP-HTF600-S cans (both with velour ear pads), both of which I bought off Amazon for no more than $40 USD each (and with shipping).
 
I probably draw the line at around $1,200 USD for a set of headphones. 

 
If Sennheiser cut the price by 90% they would still be too expensive for you, so why does it matter to you if they are 5K or 50K? If your frame of reference is $40 headphones, it makes sense that you draw the line at 30 times that price (1200), but really of what importance is the opinion of an entry level headphone user to those playing the TOTL game? 

(For the record, I think they are too expensive too, but these kinds of comments are beyond silly.)
 

 

[Trevayne10]

So?

 

[VandyMan]

I never eat anything but Shoprite store brand white bread for $1 a loaf. I don't understand anyone spending much more than that, because the cheap bread seems perfectly good to me. The most I'd ever spend on a loaf of bread is $2. That $8 wheat bread is over priced in my opinion. And my opinion has value even though I've never tried the more expensive bread, can't afford the more expensive bread, and would not buy it even if it was priced at a fraction of the asking price. Given all of that, I'm sure you are very interested in my opinion on the subject.

 

[Trevayne10]

It is downright peculiar that you find it edifying to respond to comments that are "beyond silly".