The Sennheiser Orpheus 2? A First Look At The Sennheiser HE-1 (The New Orpheus)
Mar 28, 2018 at 4:21 PM Post #2,626 of 2,918
I am actually waiting for Hifiman and their Jade DAC :wink:. It will sound so good that it blow mind and pocket altogether. I am not a fan of Dave. Switching power supply, single ended output.

I was actually satisfied with Carbon and GG with Stax and Bass performances without sibilances or harshness (it blew that stax has no bass myths, and the myth about 009 is harsh). Everybody would agree :wink:. I progressed further because I heard and realized the potentials of 009. About that BenchMark, T2 consumes 200W....damn! Should also be a Benchmark lol

Ohh, Hifiman...wonderful cuz expensive, how could I forget! it will blow your ears or blow itself after 5 minutes of use, just legendary hahaha

Ah yeah, there are benchmarks, like the T2, and there is "Benchmark" lol
 
Mar 28, 2018 at 5:18 PM Post #2,627 of 2,918
Whitiger
I used to think SMPS are bad as well. But not in all cases. I have read many reports on modern switcher well designed that have 50% less noise than the best LPS. So not in all case is the SMPS bad. Chord do things different. Yes lots of cheapo PS's out there, and SMPS advantage of multi voltages fit with budget DACs.

Balanced out does not always sound best, and many products are not fully balanced. In met domestic situations you don't need balanced as no loss on the cable lengths to speak of IMO. Well implements SE can sound incredible. A true Class A SE gain stage with tubes is a joy to behold in a DAC. So the technicality of any design depends on the implementation. I heard the Golden Gate last year, and it was also very good.

The DAVE goes against everything I believe in as well, SMPS, not an NOS chip based DAC, etc. But no denying it sounds really good.

A big deal in recent years with DACs is Sabre chips and DSD it seems. I have heard some good ones, the T&A DAC8 I think it was called, was good and that is pure DSD.

My current DAC is the best sound I have heard so far, no question. It all comes down to tastes and system synergy as well.

Yes, I agree, price doesn't always reflect performance.
 
Mar 28, 2018 at 8:11 PM Post #2,628 of 2,918
Ah yeah, there are benchmarks, like the T2, and there is "Benchmark" lol

Benchmark Media DACs are superbly engineered. You clearly don't like them, but almost no DACs measure better in either the analog or digital domain than the DAC-3. Stereophile praises it in their review which includes objective measurements and subjective listening.

My own belief is that most of the difference we attribute to DACs is imagined. When Tyll did his big TOTL comparison a couple of years ago, the participants could easily hear differences in the headphones and amplifiers, but not the DACs.

Also, I think the whole "system synergy" thing when applied to DACs is a canard. Well engineered DACs are not bright. The frequency response, distortion, jitter measurement show that clearly. There is no magic unmeasurable quality to DACs. With headphones, we can say that we might not know how to weigh the various measurements. That is, which of the faults is most important, because no headphone is perfect. DACs on the other hand can in fact be perfect within the range of human hearing acuity. On the other hand, amp and headphone pairings can indeed be synergistic.

So, I'm disagreeing with the advice you are offering. There is absolutely no to spend over $2500 for a DAC and you can get great sound with many DACs under 1K.
 
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Mar 28, 2018 at 8:28 PM Post #2,629 of 2,918
I don't agree here. This is a big divisive subject and will bring lots of angst. But I respectfully suggest you hear more top level DACs. In a cluster of DACs around a similar design (same chips in some cases) and possibly budget constraints (accept there are some better than others at the same price points) simple line stage, maybe opp amp, small power supply, yeah, they may all sound the same.

Lets turn this into a bigger subject, do all preamplifiers sound the same? I say not. Well a DAC has a power supply and a gain stage, so 60% pre-amplifier right there. Then we have upsampling or not, filtering or not, FPGA, discrete, PCM, DSD, solid state or tubed gain stage, solid state or tubed power supply, output transformers or not, SE or balanced, I/V conversion with transformers or simple resistors, or pop amp - I could go on..... yeah all the same.
 
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Mar 28, 2018 at 8:30 PM Post #2,630 of 2,918
I've tried many different dacs before and so far I can conclude that every dac manufacturing company has their own "house sound" especially on their top chips.
 
Mar 28, 2018 at 9:17 PM Post #2,632 of 2,918
Benchmark Media DACs are superbly engineered. You clearly don't like them, but almost no DACs measure better in either the analog or digital domain than the DAC-3. Stereophile praises it in their review which includes objective measurements and subjective listening.

My own belief is that most of the difference we attribute to DACs is imagined. When Tyll did his big TOTL comparison a couple of years ago, the participants could easily hear differences in the headphones and amplifiers, but not the DACs.

Also, I think the whole "system synergy" thing when applied to DACs is a canard. Well engineered DACs are not bright. The frequency response, distortion, jitter measurement show that clearly. There is no magic unmeasurable quality to DACs. With headphones, we can say that we might not know how to weigh the various measurements. That is, which of the faults is most important, because no headphone is perfect. DACs on the other hand can in fact be perfect within the range of human hearing acuity. On the other hand, amp and headphone pairings can indeed be synergistic.

So, I'm disagreeing with the advice you are offering. There is absolutely no to spend over $2500 for a DAC and you can get great sound with many DACs under 1K.

Well, there's a good bottleneck called speaker (or headphone) and to some extent, some amplifiers, that have much more distortion and higher noise floor than almost any DAC (unless is a really bad DAC), so the 0.000001% THD or 0.01% THD doesn't matter that much because is being masked by the transducer (or even the amplifier).
Some things, like power supplies, feedback (or the lack of it), op amps (or a fully discrete design), filters (or lack of filters) type of DAC chip (R2R, Delta Sigma), have a real effect in sound quality.
I have a fairly neutral and resolving system, which consists in a Stax SR-007 (the latest revision, with port and spring mods) and a KGSSHV Mini. The Benchmark DAC3, sounds like what it is, a delta sigma dac that uses op amps, oversampling, tons of negative feedback and a switching power supply...which, to me, sounded sterile, bright, but lifeless at the same time, the physical equivalent would be introducing an ice brick in your ears (you know, is bright, cold and annoying, but at the same time, it doesn't have life, it's an ice brick).
The complete opposite would be a Metrum Pavane or Adagio (I have an Adagio)...no output stage, R2R, NOS, fully discrete design, fully balanced and dual mono...it sounds mmm, glorious (oh, and the published noise floor figure is -144db, if you like numbers).

Of course, there are much more expensive DACs than a Metrum Adagio (and some of them, much worse sounding, imo), and cheap and very good DACs under 1k...Soekris and Schiit have fantastic products under 1k. The Benchmark DAC3 costs more than twice and sounds awful. Price and performance have almost no relation in this hobby.

Ah, it depends what DACs are you hearing, and how resolving your system is, to hear differences or not.

PS: in Big Sound, they also had a really bad time with the amplifiers when the headphones tested had a linear impedance, save for the Bakoon (transconductance amplifier) and the Teton (OTL amplifier), as I said, it depends on how resolving the system is and how different the gear is from each other, it's not the same to test a tube amp vs a solid state amp, than two similar solid state amps. Same with DACs, usually, R2R are very easy to spot vs Delta Sigma.

PS2: "Synergy" is simple for me: best source I can find > transparent sounding, powerful amp > headphone/speaker I really like. The usual "bright headphone + awful and rolled off amplifier (or vice versa)" is like lipstick on a pig to me, not a real hifi system.

PS3: I never said that you need an expensive DAC to achieve good sound, I only said that I dislike Benchmark DACs...who are you to negate what I hear and what I like or don't like to me? Jesus Christ? :wink:
 
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Mar 28, 2018 at 9:44 PM Post #2,633 of 2,918
Hey what about that snake oil MSB DAC that's like $40k by itself.

How does that compare? Anyone have experience with that???

I think you have to buy the one that aesthetically synergizes with your chair and desk. Imagine a Schiit Yggdrasil and a Picasso, side by side...who cares, me thinks Picasso wants you to buy the MSB Select DAC with all the upgrades included, the whole cosmos, two green unicorns and a swedish masseuse.
 
Mar 28, 2018 at 9:45 PM Post #2,634 of 2,918
who are you to negate what I hear and what I like or don't like to me? Jesus Christ? :wink:

I can't disagree with you? Anyway, I've been called a lot worse. :laughing:

Given two well engineered DACs that both measure essentially perfectly (within the range of human hearing) you claim to be able to perceive one to be "sterile, bright, but lifeless at the same time, the physical equivalent would be introducing an ice brick in your ear." I'm sure this is your honest opinion and belief, but I don't buy it. Nothing personal.

You guys quote lots of technical details that you claim matter, but ignore the fact that that on many of these DACs the outputs measure the same in all important respects (setting aside the filters).

Anyway, I don't want to take this too off topic, so I'll stop here.

Edit: Remove comment to astrostar59.
 
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Mar 28, 2018 at 9:50 PM Post #2,635 of 2,918
I can't disagree with you? Anyway, I've been called a lot worse. :laughing:

Given two well engineered DACs that both measure essentially perfectly (within the range of human hearing) you claim to be able to perceive one to be "sterile, bright, but lifeless at the same time, the physical equivalent would be introducing an ice brick in your ear." I'm sure this is your honest opinion and belief, but I don't buy it. Nothing personal.

You guys quote lots of technical details that you claim matter, but ignore the fact that that on many of these DACs the outputs measure the same in all important respects (setting aside the filters).

Anyway, I don't want to take this too off topic, so I'll stop here.

It's a good insult if you don't like beards and carpenters...very european hahaha
That's a wise decision, and I do respect it.
Everything is in peace :)
 
Mar 29, 2018 at 5:32 PM Post #2,637 of 2,918
Custom made HE-1, Rain Forrest Green Marble.

239883be48805ea1f9ed3207ed6ae1ba.jpg Snímka obrazovky 2018-03-29 o 23.31.32.png
Snímka obrazovky 2018-03-29 o 23.29.39.png
 
Mar 29, 2018 at 8:01 PM Post #2,640 of 2,918
I read the volume is quite low generally, is that correct. 12,o'clock on my Carbon > 009s is very loud, no way I could stand 3 or 4 o'clock. But, yes sounds a bit alarming that. My LCD4 can play so loud with no distortion, I wouldn't want to test them on my ears TBH. Maybe it is the stator gap on the HE-1 drivers?

Powertoold, did you think it was garbage (your sig)?
 

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