[KZEE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I hate tubes because the best ones you'd actually want are rare and hard to find, and EXPENSIVE. I hate them because they wear out and need to be replaced. I hate them because there are forgeries and dealers you can't trust who will sell you bogus tubes that may have only half their strength left. I hate tubes because it's ancient technology easily bested by properly configured solid state technology that will LAST. The fact is, with a properly-designed solid-state circuit, you get all the great tome/timbre of tubes without any of the draw-backs. You can also get better precision and bass response.

"Fact"? If good solid state possessed all of the great tone/timbre of tubes then reason would tell you that there wouldn't be as many manufacturers of tubed gear in the world today as there are today - and NOS tubes wouldn't be commanding the ridiculous prices that they do. I mean what would be the point of buying tubed gear over solid state if solid state offered all of the positive sound attributes of tubes without any of tube's drawbacks?

The "fact" remains that in spite of their drawbacks tubed gear is as popular as ever these days because as of yet even "properly designed" solid state can't touch tubes in imparting that life-like tone and timber to music. Oh solid state can come close I suppose... I had the opportunity to audition a Pass Aleph 30 in my home, and in spite of the fact that Pass branded gear is generally considered by most to be the most tube-like solid state gear available on the market place today, and although there was much to like about the Aleph, in the end the Aleph fell short of offering up the best of what tubes can offer.

P.S. The invention of the wheel is also ancient technology, yet the wheel continues to serve us quite admirably, so the argument that because tubes are ancient technology and thus can't any be any good rings rather hollow. And in regard to LASTING, I would be willing to bet big bucks that there are many, many more vintage tube preamps and amps in active use today than there are vintage solid tube preamps and amps.

 

[Icarium]

Shrug, so he doesn't like tube amps that's his opinion and I don't think he presented it as anything but that. If you don't buy into that view or his impressions that's your choice ;p I don't really think you really need to defend tube amps as a majority of people are into them. I myself am getting one soon and probably another one or two in the future.

I too am bothered by the lifespan of tubes... having to replace a part periodically over the lifetime of an amp. Sure there are cheap options available now, but what about if I need tubes 20-30 years from now ?

Stock up I guess... bleah.

 

[leonid05]

Interesting points and thoughts here about the concept of "diminishing returns", but well, it wasn`t my intention to start such a discussion (as interesting as it is).

Markl, your points are taken (I see you`ve got mine as well).

As for tubes vs SS, let`s not start that debate here again.
Tubes and their amps do have some shortcomings (markl mentioned some, but he shouldn`t be surprised that some here tend to disagree), but to those who love tubes (like me) these "shortcomings" are part of the fun. So in the end it`s a matter of taste (and personal experiences).
Plus, like I do with my RPX-33, you can always mix tube and SS equipment with great results.

After all, the RP010 is an SS-amp, and that`s what this thread is about.

 

[markl]

Just to clarify, I do not hate the "tube sound" at all. I've owned many tube amps. I am not opposed to tubes sonically at all, nor am I opposed to them because as someone said they're "ancient technology". I don't want to start a debate and I'm sorry I brought it up actually, but for the record, we should acknowledge that the "tube sound" is a stereotype that doesn't always fit. I'm thinking in particular or Ray Samuels tube amps which I defy anyone to describe as having a steretypically "tubey" sound. And the idea that solid state can't compete with tubes in terms of tone is with all due respect, ignorant. I recommend trying some more better quality solid state (like the RPX-33 or the RP010) before making that claim.

So I don't hate tubes or the tube sound, I just hate everything that comes with the tube experience. Oh, and I left out one more- you have to go through the burn-in process every single time you swap in some new tubes.

 

[Thelonious Monk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by granodemostasa /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think diminishing returns is actually a law... it's probably a viewpoint sort of thing, I have no clue if at the really high end there is much of a difference, but from where i sit i know my stuff doesn't perform nearly as well as those super-rigs out there.

i think you're too modest. diminishing returns does exist, i reaaaally doubt a $10,000 amp would blow your zana deux out of the water like the zana deux blows the ipod's headphone out out of the water. you've got a great amp, be proud of it!

 

[Michgelsen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocktboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everything else is interesting design though....I am not sure about placing 2 toroids so close to one another. If you are going to go overboard with all the shielded boxes and stuff why not separate the toroids so the EMF around them don't interfere wit one another?

The advantage of toroid transformers is that they barely generate EMF, so I guess it's not really a problem. But yeah, when you go overboard you might as well put them in a box too...

 

[chesebert]

SET is mind blowing but their bass kinda suck ..like poof poof kind

I try to find SS that sounds closest to SET

some get really really close with real bass. SET is the only 'tube' sound I enjoy and its one of those unless you hear it you don't know kind of thing

Ayre integrated is pretty close, as are Sugden stuff I am sure Rudi's goods are equally good at sounding close to SET. correct me if I am wrong markl

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to clarify, I do not hate the "tube sound" at all. I've owned many tube amps. I am not opposed to tubes sonically at all, nor am I opposed to them because as someone said they're "ancient technology". I don't want to start a debate and I'm sorry I brought it up actually, but for the record, we should acknowledge that the "tube sound" is a stereotype that doesn't always fit. I'm thinking in particular or Ray Samuels tube amps which I defy anyone to describe as having a steretypically "tubey" sound. And the idea that solid state can't compete with tubes in terms of tone is with all due respect, ignorant. I recommend trying some more better quality solid state (like the RPX-33 or the RP010) before making that claim. So I don't hate tubes or the tube sound, I just hate everything that comes with the tube experience. Oh, and I left out one more- you have to go through the burn-in process every single time you swap in some new tubes.

Hi Mark,

Sorry, this is my fault. It was obviously a solid state amp and I was joking. It looked from your response that you understood that. I certainly did not mean to start a tubes vs. solid state war. We all have our tastes and they are different. If this were not the case, there would only be one amp manufacturer with about 3 models; portable, desktop and full blown.

Again, sorry. Your amp looks great and I can't wait to hear Rudi's amps next week in SJ.

Regards,

-ken

 

[purk]

MarkL,

Nice buy man! So when will you give us an impression on the R10 and RP010 combo?

 

[markl]

Quote:

Ayre integrated is pretty close, as are Sugden stuff I am sure Rudi's goods are equally good at sounding close to SET. correct me if I am wrong markl

Like with some tube gear, the Rudi's I've heard have a rich, organic, full sound with lots of body. It's very direct and intimate, with a real "you are there" feel. However, it's not as lush, syrupy sweet or artificially "wet" as some tube gear I've heard, but nor is it as dry and brittle or etched as some solid state. In terms of tone, I'm certainly not "losing" anything by not having tubes in the signal path, and I gain something else.

The thing is, the Rudi does stuff that most tube amps would have a hard time delievering-- namely the insane PRAT, dynamics, and the fullness and solidity of the bass response.

Quote:

So when will you give us an impression on the R10 and RP010 combo?

Hi purk, check page 2.

 

[purk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi purk, check page 2.

I went 1, 3, and then page 4!

 

[Sovkiller]

Guys why not keeping this thread for the RP010 alone, and ask markl to offer more inputs and impressions on the sound, and leave the discussion about tubes/solid state, that is dead horse here, and always end in a mud war, and goes to no place...we should state this forum also tube/ss discussion free, and CD/LP dicission free, a new suggestion for Jude...no comparison between those allowed anymore....

Tube lovers keep on enjoying tubes and leave us, the SS lovers alone, we know tubes exist, and we know the advantages and disavantages of both worlds, there are tons of articles written about them, if you choose one or the other is not just becasue the lack of info...

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif I too am bothered by the lifespan of tubes... having to replace a part periodically over the lifetime of an amp. Sure there are cheap options available now, but what about if I need tubes 20-30 years from now ? Stock up I guess... bleah.

Why do you think some of have multiple big brown boxes in the garage labelled with funny numbers

But I agree this is not an optimal solution.

However, one can plan ahead and buy tubed gear that uses tubes that are still used in quantity, i.e. used in guitar amps. Even out of the same tube company (Sovtek, Reflektor), the guitar tubes tend to have much better quality and sound. For example, Reflektor 6pi14pi-EB (EL84/M) and Sovtek 12AX7LPS are superb tubes.

I guess one could argue, "What if musicians stop using tubes in their guitar amps 30 years from now?"

Heck, if that happens, that means the world has gone apocalyptic and not worth hanging around so it doesn't matter...

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Like with some tube gear, the Rudi's I've heard have a rich, organic, full sound with lots of body.

I couldn't agree more. When I had RPX33 MkI at home audition these were my feelings exactly. It had even more body and fullness in sound than RP5.1, which is a tube hybrid after all.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I couldn't agree more. When I had RPX33 MkI at home audition these were my feelings exactly. It had even more body and fullness in sound than RP5.1, which is a tube hybrid after all.

This is easily achieved if you have a good knowledge on how the different harmonic distortion patterns work (as Rudi does) He is very good on that and voicing amps, though why his amps sound so organinc and musical...Even in the RP1000 there are a set of jumpers inside to play with that, and change the harmonic distortion pattern to your liking...