[Paladin79]

I will say it's the best price-to-performance amp I've ever had.

Seriously, I would definitely agree your amp shows differences in 6SN7's better any other component I've used to date. Not even a contest with the Lyr 3 -- it hints at differences while your amp lays them bare. And I've had quite a number of 6SN7 based components beyond the Lyr 3 over time like the Cary preamp you listened to for a bit as well as several other preamps and amps. While most of those were great sounding components, none of them let as much of the tube itself come through. But let's not discount what it does for the power tube...the differences in those is quite audible as well. Take the tale of two Tung Sols. The one on the right is a 6080 with what looks like genuine printing. And it probably is, just that the printing was applied by RCA. When I first listened to it, my thought was "Huh?!?!? Thought these were supposed to be pretty good tubes." Maybe not upper echelon, but not meh. And this was quite plainly meh, just to be polite about it:



Then I tried the TungSol below on the right (dead Chatham 6080 on the left...bit hard to make out the print). Holy tube-elicious, Batman!! Anybody that can't hear a difference (and a substantial difference) between these two tubes should maybe consider another hobby. Now I can't say how dramatic that difference might have come through in another OTL amp as I don't have any others, but the difference in the Incubus was startling.

LOL comparing price to performance is hardly fair since I gifted you the amp and paid shipping but I appreciate your other comments.

 

[Paladin79]

Sorry, meant that in a humorous nature. Love your angle and theory here.

Much of the work and theory comes from folks with more training and education than I possess, I merely designed four identical amps that might reveal tube sound, the music and test setup is where a lot of work comes in. I contribute, and I get to participate as do all involved.

 

[Ripper2860]

OK, whatever you say. Preference is key, of course. But I've seen your tube stash.

Well, I figured if I hid all my TOTL tubes in GE boxes they'd be safe from you. Turns out it's better than any security system I could have installed!!

 

[JKDJedi]

Well, I figured if I hid all my TOTL tubes in GE boxes they'd be safe from you. Turns out it's better than any security system I could have installed!!

Does everyone here have (at least) one of them TOTL (TungSol correct?) I feel like I need to get one to be considered a serious collector.

 

[Paladin79]

Does everyone here have (at least) one of them TOTL (TungSol correct?) I feel like I need to get one to be considered a serious collector.

I have some Jan 6080 WA Chatham's, they look pretty well identical to the Tung Sols Bill showed. I popped one into an Incubus for some listening right now along with some Sylvania 6J5's I find appealing.

 

[Ripper2860]

Does everyone here have (at least) one of them TOTL (TungSol correct?) I feel like I need to get one to be considered a serious collector.

Hell No!! Where's the fun in that? I'd much rather spend $2000 on tubes in a hit-or-miss fashion trying to find a hidden gem as opposed to spending $400 on one TSRP tube that everyone knows is outstanding and is already regarded as a TOTL tube!!

Besides -- I have a limit of $150 on any one tube.

I have some Jan 6080 WA Chatham's, they look pretty well identical to the Tung Sols Bill showed. I popped one into an Incubus for some listening right now along with some Sylvania 6J5's I find appealing.

This is the 6SN7 thread, Tom!! I'm pretty sure he was referring to the round-plate 6SN7.

 

[JKDJedi]

Hell No!! Where's the fun in that? I'd much rather spend $2000 on tubes in a hit-or-miss fashion trying to find a hidden gem as opposed to spending $400 on one TSRP tube that everyone knows is outstanding and is already regarded as a TOTL tube!!

Besides -- I have a limit of $150 on any one tube.

Same here, missed a bidding on one that went for $124....almost cried.

 

[thomaskong78]

Hell No!! Where's the fun in that? I'd much rather spend $2000 on tubes in a hit-or-miss fashion trying to find a hidden gem as opposed to spending $400 on one TSRP tube that everyone knows is outstanding and is already regarded as a TOTL tube!!

Besides -- I have a limit of $150 on any one tube.

You guys are living in small world.

Some serious audiophiles are talking about Magico M9 speaker with price tag of mere 750,000$.

I left two posts on the thread as below.


Place pre order before they run out of stock.

Even my house in rural area fetch more than 1 M$.

II I sell my house and buy this one, I will have enough cash to buy condo for elderly.

Can I play this small guy in condo?

Is there any elderly discount for M9?


I had bought the ticket to Axpona 2020 but the cancelled ticket will be good for 2021 event.

Thus if I go ahead with Axpona 2021, then i will have a chance to listen to this speaker.

But it is unlikely that sincere audiophile will buy this speaker since they know well enough how hard it is to optimize this kind of monster speaker.

It will be more likely that some billionaire buy one to brag about it.

We will see the pair of speaker with price tag of 1M$ pretty soon.

Then it will be easier to brag about it.


Recently I had spent 4K$ on Nos 6sn7 tubes for shootout.

It was kind of wine tasting.

Now I had settled at Russion tubes called 1578 Melz and 6h9s which cost just 300$.

But after tube rolling, my system sounds much more dynamic with clean details, wider and deeper soundstage.

Thus it is unlikely that I will change my speaker in the near future.


If I upgrade my speaker, then I will go to Vintage Western horn system which cost around 300K$ (modest price tag compared with M9).

I shall have bought one Vintage western horn about 13 years ago when I have 1M$ of cash.


But I had spent the 1M$ on stocks and lost half of the money 3 years later on Lehman crash.

 

[JKDJedi]

You guys are living in small world.

Some serious audiophiles are talking about Magico M9 speaker with price tag of mere 750,000$.

I left two posts on the thread as below.


Place pre order before they run out of stock.

Even my house in rural area fetch more than 1 M$.

II I sell my house and buy this one, I will have enough cash to buy condo for elderly.

Can I play this small guy in condo?

Is there any elderly discount for M9?


I had bought the ticket to Axpona 2020 but the cancelled ticket will be good for 2021 event.

Thus if I go ahead with Axpona 2021, then i will have a chance to listen to this speaker.

But it is unlikely that sincere audiophile will buy this speaker since they know well enough how hard it is to optimize this kind of monster speaker.

It will be more likely that some billionaire buy one to brag about it.

We will see the pair of speaker with price tag of 1M$ pretty soon.

Then it will be easier to brag about it.


Recently I had spent 4K$ on Nos 6sn7 tubes for shootout.

It was kind of wine tasting.

Now I had settled at Russion tubes called 1578 Melz and 6h9s which cost just 300$.

But after tube rolling, my system sounds much more dynamic with clean details, wider and deeper soundstage.

Thus it is unlikely that I will change my speaker in the near future.


If I upgrade my speaker, then I will go to Vintage Western horn system which cost around 300K$ (modest price tag compared with M9).

I shall have bought one Vintage western horn about 13 years ago when I have 1M$ of cash.


But I had spent the 1M$ on stocks and lost half of the money 3 years later on Lehman crash.

crap ...must really suck to live like that.

 

[Paladin79]

Same here, missed a bidding on one that went for $124....almost cried.

Sorry I did not realize you were talking TSRP, I own a couple and have another on the way, right now they are part of the upcoming tube challenge, even within specific types we try to pick out the newest and best sounding when possible. A couple tubes are pretty much one of a kind, one person has some that were handed down by his grandfather who designed tubes for RCA. They used to have the largest television plant in the world here in town so there are a few descendants still here.

 

[Ripper2860]

So what is your take on the TSRP as compared to 40's RCA Gray Glass and the Melz?

 

[bcowen]

Hell No!! Where's the fun in that? I'd much rather spend $2000 on tubes in a hit-or-miss fashion trying to find a hidden gem as opposed to spending $400 on one TSRP tube that everyone knows is outstanding and is already regarded as a TOTL tube!!

Copycat.

 

[Paladin79]

You guys are living in small world.

Some serious audiophiles are talking about Magico M9 speaker with price tag of mere 750,000$.

I left two posts on the thread as below.


Place pre order before they run out of stock.

Even my house in rural area fetch more than 1 M$.

II I sell my house and buy this one, I will have enough cash to buy condo for elderly.

Can I play this small guy in condo?

Is there any elderly discount for M9?


I had bought the ticket to Axpona 2020 but the cancelled ticket will be good for 2021 event.

Thus if I go ahead with Axpona 2021, then i will have a chance to listen to this speaker.

But it is unlikely that sincere audiophile will buy this speaker since they know well enough how hard it is to optimize this kind of monster speaker.

It will be more likely that some billionaire buy one to brag about it.

We will see the pair of speaker with price tag of 1M$ pretty soon.

Then it will be easier to brag about it.


Recently I had spent 4K$ on Nos 6sn7 tubes for shootout.

It was kind of wine tasting.

Now I had settled at Russion tubes called 1578 Melz and 6h9s which cost just 300$.

But after tube rolling, my system sounds much more dynamic with clean details, wider and deeper soundstage.

Thus it is unlikely that I will change my speaker in the near future.


If I upgrade my speaker, then I will go to Vintage Western horn system which cost around 300K$ (modest price tag compared with M9).

I shall have bought one Vintage western horn about 13 years ago when I have 1M$ of cash.


But I had spent the 1M$ on stocks and lost half of the money 3 years later on Lehman crash.

I know a lot of Russians who deal in tubes, they happily trade many of their tubes for Sylvania's, RCA's, and Tung Sols. Maybe it is just a matter of familiarity breeding contempt.I have worked in speaker design and there can be crazy markups involved, I prefer to build my own or catch a deal from friends. Tubes on the other hand are becoming more scarce so I buy them as I buy real estate and invest in the stock market. I got out just before the crash and bought heavy when the market was low.

I can recall a company that will charge $30,000 for two speaker cables. I think they list them just to get attention but every now and then someone will probably buy them, and I imagine they go laughing all the way to the bank. You cannot make sound better, the most you can hope for is to have less loss and less distortion over a particular distance. I am always more impressed with those who know the sound in real life and can tell me how close and end result is when it goes through an amplifier, wires, and transducers. Recording plays a big part as well so the audio engineer and recording equipment come into play.

 

[Paladin79]

So what is your take on the TSRP as compared to 40's RCA Gray Glass and the Melz?

of those tubes I have consistently picked the RCA in blind tests until I heard the 63 Melz, but I have never claimed to have great hearing. They have to be in an Incubus for me to choose between them consistently. Even a highly modified BH Crack would only show a slight difference for me, and the power tubes were a waste of time. For serious testing I use the music my group does so it is never this or that sounds better, there are 25 criteria and a final score. All three rated in the 90's. The black glass Ken Rad VT 231 is right in the mix.

 

[bcowen]

Back to 6SN7's (or halfway?) with some 6J5's. First the Pinnacle-labeled Russian 6S2S (or 6C2C depending on which alphabet you prefer ), and thanks to @Paladin79 for pointing out their heritage. These things have that Russian bass thing going on. Hard to put it in words exactly, but there's this rhythmic drive in the mid - upper bass that just gets your foot tapping. It's the punch and weight and timing I think that just all comes together nicely and makes you want to crank it up and grab the air guitar. And what's nice is you CAN crank it up, as the treble never gets hot, harsh, or fatiguing no matter how loud you go. This particular trait is one of the most endearing qualities (to me) of the Foton 6N8S, and these 6J5's have it just the same. Nice stage too with good width and depth. Not as harmonically engaging in the mids and lacking some of the low level detail and note decay that I hear in the Sylvanias (below), but I'm going to say at this point that just like the Fotons, these are great cheap tubes! I'm working at finding what's better out there (which most certainly exists), but for rock and metal these Russkies don't leave me wanting at all.

Next up are the '45 Sylvanias. Hmmm. Rather gritty sounding at the outset which pretty much went away after about 5 hours of break-in. As mentioned above the mids are nicely detailed and full of harmonic info. Treble is extended and detailed, but currently can wield a bit of an edge at louder volumes (recording dependent). What I'm not enthused with at this point is the bass. Nicely defined and with relatively good extension, but also rather thin sounding and lacking body. The "where's the beef" kind of thing. Maybe that will improve with some more break-in, and if it does then I might could like this tube quite a bit. If not, then they're going to be filed away in the also-ran bin.

After I give the Sylvies their full due the Brimars are on deck next.

Pinnacle 6J5GT (Russian 6S2S):

1945 Black Round plate Sylvania 6J5GT:

Gray Round plate Brimar 6J5GT (haven't looked at the year):