The Reference 6SN7 Thread

[Roasty]

Looks like a 3-hole 1952 Bad Boy to me. Nice score!

I was googling 6sn7 bad boy and this thread/post came up:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/page-23

I've no experience with the "bad boy" tubes. have you had a chance to listen to them yourself?

 

[cddc]

I find Bad Boy very tricky...Some people on ebay call the ones with top getter Bad Boy, others call the ones with bottom getter Bad Boy.

And reviews are also mixed. Some say they are very good, some say they have harsh highs, and some say they are just ordinary Syl's and can't hear a difference and so it's hyped.

 

[JKDJedi]

I was googling 6sn7 bad boy and this thread/post came up:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/page-23

I've no experience with the "bad boy" tubes. have you had a chance to listen to them yourself?

Oh boy....you gonna open a can of worms on this topic, bottom line, they seem to be a collectors item, I read that the JAN-CHS 3 hole 6SN7GT (1952) are built the same/or better than the Sylvnia VT-231 (1940s?) with better dynamic sound. And have a higher than average resale value because of that. Arguably in the ALL TIME top 5 list of 6SN7GT drivers. And yeah, there's skeptics out there that say they can't tell the difference blind folded. Will find out for myself one day, maybe. Been saying that for a couple of months here! (Cry Wolf?)

from page 1 of this cool thread... (read page one...all of it.. good stuff there)!

[3 holes in each plate, copper grid posts, bottom getter, green labels, black base and plates, vertical date code (read from top-down) ‘2xx’ with ‘xx’ representing week #, 'polished' silvery rectangular mica]
[NON-1952 vintage short-bottle 6SN7GTs can have ROUND MICAS and NEVER have 3 holes per plate [only 2] - check for an example in my photo gallery]
● “One tube that you should look out for is 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT. It's constructed with the same tooling as the 40's VT-231, but this tube is different in that it actually has good, propulsive base. I can only speculate why it sounds much better even though the tooling is the same. But it is certainly one of the top 5 6SN7s on my list. For a while, I thought all these Syl rectangular plated 6SN7GT were all the same, but it turns out my previous 1952's were on their last legs.” –Len
● “The best treble I've heard is the 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boys" (I refer to these tubes as Syl VT-231s on steroids - better treble and rock solid bass). The first time I heard the 52's, I literally had an "oh my!" reaction to the treble.” –Len
● “The 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT shares the sonic characteristic of the previous 6SN7GT/VT-231 tall bottle, except many say it is more refined and has significantly more (clean) bass.” –Len [in personal correspondence with author]
● “A tube with what is imo a slightly dark and effortlessly natural sound. An extremely sweet (but not overdone) midrange. There is roughly the same amount of slam as the Ken-Rad VT-231 [KR], yet the slam is definitely less visceral than the KR. This is an extremely musical tube, with a less airy sound than both the KR and Raytheon [RT]. The treble on this tube is more ‘tubey’ sounding, and is less cold than the KR and certainly the RT. What surprised me was that there was slightly less discernable low level detail than the KR. Low level detail is the same as the RT. Instrument separation was slightly less than the RT. A completely non-fatiguing tube to listen to. Female vocals are a joy to listen to on this tube – echoing another member, I really feel like reaching across and getting to know Diana Krall a –whole- lot better with this tube.

” –adhoc
● “If you can, try the Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7GT from 1952, bottom getter - incredible bass, warm lovely mids and very extended sweet highs. Some days I think this may be the best sounding 6SN7 ever made.” –Robert H
● “The '52 Syl came to me from Neville in Australia who had a big stash and I first posted about them on Tubes Asylum and coined the "Bad Boys" moniker that still sticks. Your description is dead on, later in '52 the tube changed to a shorter bottle with round serrated micas - an ordinary, dry sounding tube - but it does have a 1952 date code and many sellers try to pass it off as the good ones. All around this is one of the best 6SN7's ever made.” –Robert H. (in personal correspondence)

 

[Alchemy_]

I'm a pretty big novice so I don't know how reliable my opinion is here but I do have a real badboy running in my Bottlehead Crackatwoa and I have to say adhoc pretty much nails the description. I also have to agree with another opinion I've found around that this tube is a little "shy" and that sound seems to want to be drawn out of it.

I've been running it for around a month and against my long time RCA grey-glass the badboy is exceptionally non-fatiguing and produces a dark sound signature with very smooth highs, and keeps it's main claim over its vt-231 predecessor that it can deliver solid bass. Personally I absolutely love this tube particularly when I'm listening to more relaxing music. To me this tube has one hell of a unique sound signature.

If it matters to anyone I pair all this with a 6336A power tube. The Crackatwoa is a shunt regulated and CCS fed OTL amp.

 

[JKDJedi]

Hoping someone can help me here, I'm eyeing a 6SN7GT tube and they have two types, a GAIN and a Driver. o.O When did 6SN7GT have two different type? I sent him a pic of my Darkvoice amp and he insisted that "You would need a "gain stage" tube as you have a single 6SN7 which acts for both gain and driving purposes". This sound right? My Darkvoice amp has one slot for 6AS7G power tube and one slot 6SN7 tube. The difference between the GAin and Driver 6SN7GT tube that I'm looking at is $40

 

[Keno18]

Hoping someone can help me here, I'm eyeing a 6SN7GT tube and they have two types, a GAIN and a Driver. o.O When did 6SN7GT have two different type? I sent him a pic of my Darkvoice amp and he insisted that "You would need a "gain stage" tube as you have a single 6SN7 which acts for both gain and driving purposes". This sound right? My Darkvoice amp has one slot for 6AS7G power tube and one slot 6SN7 tube. The difference between the GAin and Driver 6SN7GT tube that I'm looking at is $40

Doesn't sound kosher. One 6sn7gt may have more gain than another but I think that is due to length of use. Not originally manufactured that way. The longer you use a tube the more it wears out, therefore less gain (amplification).

 

[JimL11]

Hoping someone can help me here, I'm eyeing a 6SN7GT tube and they have two types, a GAIN and a Driver. o.O When did 6SN7GT have two different type? I sent him a pic of my Darkvoice amp and he insisted that "You would need a "gain stage" tube as you have a single 6SN7 which acts for both gain and driving purposes". This sound right? My Darkvoice amp has one slot for 6AS7G power tube and one slot 6SN7 tube. The difference between the GAin and Driver 6SN7GT tube that I'm looking at is $40

A 6SN7 is a 6SN7, there aren't two types. Maybe the seller is thinking that a gain stage tube (generally a grounded cathode topology with voltage gain) needs to be quieter than a driving stage tube (often a cathode follower topology with current gain but no voltage gain), but since the Darkvoice amp is working at line voltages, it really shouldn't make a noticeable difference.

 

[exdmd]

Oh boy....you gonna open a can of worms on this topic, bottom line, they seem to be a collectors item, I read that the JAN-CHS 3 hole 6SN7GT (1952) are built the same/or better than the Sylvnia VT-231 (1940s?) with better dynamic sound. And have a higher than average resale value because of that. Arguably in the ALL TIME top 5 list of 6SN7GT drivers. And yeah, there's skeptics out there that say they can't tell the difference blind folded. Will find out for myself one day, maybe. Been saying that for a couple of months here! (Cry Wolf?)

from page 1 of this cool thread... (read page one...all of it.. good stuff there)!

[3 holes in each plate, copper grid posts, bottom getter, green labels, black base and plates, vertical date code (read from top-down) ‘2xx’ with ‘xx’ representing week #, 'polished' silvery rectangular mica]
[NON-1952 vintage short-bottle 6SN7GTs can have ROUND MICAS and NEVER have 3 holes per plate [only 2] - check for an example in my photo gallery]
● “One tube that you should look out for is 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT. It's constructed with the same tooling as the 40's VT-231, but this tube is different in that it actually has good, propulsive base. I can only speculate why it sounds much better even though the tooling is the same. But it is certainly one of the top 5 6SN7s on my list. For a while, I thought all these Syl rectangular plated 6SN7GT were all the same, but it turns out my previous 1952's were on their last legs.” –Len
● “The best treble I've heard is the 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boys" (I refer to these tubes as Syl VT-231s on steroids - better treble and rock solid bass). The first time I heard the 52's, I literally had an "oh my!" reaction to the treble.” –Len
● “The 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT shares the sonic characteristic of the previous 6SN7GT/VT-231 tall bottle, except many say it is more refined and has significantly more (clean) bass.” –Len [in personal correspondence with author]
● “A tube with what is imo a slightly dark and effortlessly natural sound. An extremely sweet (but not overdone) midrange. There is roughly the same amount of slam as the Ken-Rad VT-231 [KR], yet the slam is definitely less visceral than the KR. This is an extremely musical tube, with a less airy sound than both the KR and Raytheon [RT]. The treble on this tube is more ‘tubey’ sounding, and is less cold than the KR and certainly the RT. What surprised me was that there was slightly less discernable low level detail than the KR. Low level detail is the same as the RT. Instrument separation was slightly less than the RT. A completely non-fatiguing tube to listen to. Female vocals are a joy to listen to on this tube – echoing another member, I really feel like reaching across and getting to know Diana Krall a –whole- lot better with this tube.

” –adhoc
● “If you can, try the Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7GT from 1952, bottom getter - incredible bass, warm lovely mids and very extended sweet highs. Some days I think this may be the best sounding 6SN7 ever made.” –Robert H
● “The '52 Syl came to me from Neville in Australia who had a big stash and I first posted about them on Tubes Asylum and coined the "Bad Boys" moniker that still sticks. Your description is dead on, later in '52 the tube changed to a shorter bottle with round serrated micas - an ordinary, dry sounding tube - but it does have a 1952 date code and many sellers try to pass it off as the good ones. All around this is one of the best 6SN7's ever made.” –Robert H. (in personal correspondence)

Here is the relevant thread on Tubes Asylum for anyone definitively needing to identify a real Sylvania "Bad Boy". Another link worth reading is this one at Audiomart. I have had them and they are worth seeking out but I do still prefer the 1940's Tung Sol round plates.

 

[JKDJedi]

Here is the relevant thread on Tubes Asylum for anyone definitively needing to identify a real Sylvania "Bad Boy". Another link worth reading is this one at Audiomart. I have had them and they are worth seeking out but I do still prefer the 1940's Tung Sol round plates.

I'm laughing at the idea that someone bought a rebranded Sylvania (RCA)for that much.

 

[cddc]

Hoping someone can help me here, I'm eyeing a 6SN7GT tube and they have two types, a GAIN and a Driver. o.O When did 6SN7GT have two different type? I sent him a pic of my Darkvoice amp and he insisted that "You would need a "gain stage" tube as you have a single 6SN7 which acts for both gain and driving purposes". This sound right? My Darkvoice amp has one slot for 6AS7G power tube and one slot 6SN7 tube. The difference between the GAin and Driver 6SN7GT tube that I'm looking at is $40

Sounds pretty weird...my take on that is one of the 6SN7's could possibly be noisier than the other. It could be microphonic in driver stage while still quiet in gain stage.

 

[JKDJedi]

Sounds pretty weird...my take on that is one of the 6SN7's could possibly be noisier than the other. It could be microphonic in driver stage while still quiet in gain stage.

I think he believes my amp is 6SN7 only.. this was his initial response to my Driver vs Gain 6SN7GT question...

"The power tubes need to be driven. In case there is no any separate driving tubes in the circuit, that means the gain (input) tubes operate for both task : voltage amplification plus driving.
In such a design as yours it would be better to use the tubes selected for gain stage. The tubes selected for driver stage might later be slightly microphonic in the course of time which would be negligible if they are used for the driving task only. "

So just get the said GAIN tube to be safe? Or not deal with the questionable logic of this guy?

 

[cddc]

I think he believes my amp is 6SN7 only.. this was his initial response to my Driver vs Gain 6SN7GT question...

"The power tubes need to be driven. In case there is no any separate driving tubes in the circuit, that means the gain (input) tubes operate for both task : voltage amplification plus driving.
In such a design as yours it would be better to use the tubes selected for gain stage. The tubes selected for driver stage might later be slightly microphonic in the course of time which would be negligible if they are used for the driving task only. "

So just get the said GAIN tube to be safe? Or not deal with the questionable logic of this guy?

You are right. I think the guy made a mistake. He thought the 6SN7 in your amp acts as both driver and power, which is not true, as it has 6AS7G as power tube.

 

[cddc]

So seller has 2 types of 6SN7's, with one being slightly microphonic, especially used as power/GAIN tube. Well, it might be quiet in the driver stage, or not, but it's up to you. If it has 30-day Return Policy, you can probably give the noisier ones a shot.

 

[JKDJedi]

UltraSonic Rx Damping Instrument

Snake Oil?

 

[Skylab]

IMO, mildly useful if you have a microphonic tube. Otherwise of no value.