The Reference 6SN7 Thread

[Ike1985]

Yikes. Thanks to everyone in this thread. Learned a ton in short amount of time. Didn't know about patina either. What a bad guy.

 

[JollyGreen]

IME, I have never liked MELZ in my system. Used to have 4 pairs in my collection, just sold the last pair last week. One pair is 1956 Melz 6H8C, two pairs are 1976 Melz 1587, cant remember the last pair. I guess they dont run quite well with ECC35, KR300B and ACME 805 in LM508IA.

I would scour the EARTH trying to find a pair of those MELZ 1578 from '76. That's my holy grail tube and I can't find them ANYWHERE

 

[Designsfx]

This is how original Sylvania boxes would look like.
These days I see more and more eBay sellers with fake boxes.

I get what you’re saying from the perspective that someone might use a reproduction box to fool someone into thinking the tubes and boxes were original- but that’s pretty easy to spot. I don’t get hung up on the boxes as long as I can see what the tubes really look like. I buy these boxes all the time simply because I prefer them to the standard white replacements and the “faux” reproduction boxes are actually more costly than the cheapo whities. Don’t judge the book by its cover!

 

[Waffle Prime]

Devils advocate here, tried some early 60s matched Jan WGTA Sylvanias a few weeks ago. They are nice enough, but honestly nothing special jumped out at me. Bass was a bit light and muddled, but otherwise less interesting and with less character than other 50s NOS or budget new production.

The question really should be: do I want modern tubes that have characteristics of NOS without the many defects, do I want to experience and try out many inexpensive, flawed NOS tubes for fun, or do I want to spend a gazillion $ on iconic tubes that can only realistically be purchased as used and while good++ aren't the last tubes you will buy?

I've spent a bit of coin, but use the NOS tubes for making tv audio less horrible, and the expensive Linlai E-6SN7 ($75 ea) for music. Tonally accurate, no roll off, no dynamic killing warmth, no fake extended high freq shimmer at the expense of bass. Incredible layering, good prat, and unbelievable presence and a pretty touch on top. I hear Shuguang is a mite bit beefier. Art 3 is still new but promising from early testimonials.

Yeah I get NOS is fun and it is a hobby. I'm not saying don't buy NOS. But be realistic that in 2025 NOS 6SN7s are a horrible money pit of disappointment for the most part. I started a couple years ago and to be blunt, that was 30 years to late. The future is new chinese production, which comes with good warranty when purchased from chinese sellers. I would support them, no one else is developing and releasing new products.

YMMV, but that is my 2 cents.

Cheers,

 

[TLO]

Devils advocate here, tried some early 60s matched Jan WGTA Sylvanias a few weeks ago. They are nice enough, but honestly nothing special jumped out at me. Bass was a bit light and muddled, but otherwise less interesting and with less character than other 50s NOS or budget new production.

The question really should be: do I want modern tubes that have characteristics of NOS without the many defects, do I want to experience and try out many inexpensive, flawed NOS tubes for fun, or do I want to spend a gazillion $ on iconic tubes that can only realistically be purchased as used and while good++ aren't the last tubes you will buy?

I've spent a bit of coin, but use the NOS tubes for making tv audio less horrible, and the expensive Linlai E-6SN7 ($75 ea) for music. Tonally accurate, no roll off, no dynamic killing warmth, no fake extended high freq shimmer at the expense of bass. Incredible layering, good prat, and unbelievable presence and a pretty touch on top. I hear Shuguang is a mite bit beefier. Art 3 is still new but promising from early testimonials.

Yeah I get NOS is fun and it is a hobby. I'm not saying don't buy NOS. But be realistic that in 2025 NOS 6SN7s are a horrible money pit of disappointment for the most part. I started a couple years ago and to be blunt, that was 30 years to late. The future is new chinese production, which comes with good warranty when purchased from chinese sellers. I would support them, no one else is developing and releasing new products.

YMMV, but that is my 2 cents.

Cheers,

IMO, that is becos SYL WGTA isnt the best choice to show what some vintage tubes can really sound like. Just saying. Used to have 2 pairs, never like them. As you have mentioned, lack of character and can get bored with them easily.

 

[Isaacc7]

Devils advocate here, tried some early 60s matched Jan WGTA Sylvanias a few weeks ago. They are nice enough, but honestly nothing special jumped out at me. Bass was a bit light and muddled, but otherwise less interesting and with less character than other 50s NOS or budget new production.

The question really should be: do I want modern tubes that have characteristics of NOS without the many defects, do I want to experience and try out many inexpensive, flawed NOS tubes for fun, or do I want to spend a gazillion $ on iconic tubes that can only realistically be purchased as used and while good++ aren't the last tubes you will buy?

I've spent a bit of coin, but use the NOS tubes for making tv audio less horrible, and the expensive Linlai E-6SN7 ($75 ea) for music. Tonally accurate, no roll off, no dynamic killing warmth, no fake extended high freq shimmer at the expense of bass. Incredible layering, good prat, and unbelievable presence and a pretty touch on top. I hear Shuguang is a mite bit beefier. Art 3 is still new but promising from early testimonials.

Yeah I get NOS is fun and it is a hobby. I'm not saying don't buy NOS. But be realistic that in 2025 NOS 6SN7s are a horrible money pit of disappointment for the most part. I started a couple years ago and to be blunt, that was 30 years to late. The future is new chinese production, which comes with good warranty when purchased from chinese sellers. I would support them, no one else is developing and releasing new products.

YMMV, but that is my 2 cents.

Cheers,

I find trying to make the value argument for Chinese tubes really odd. They are expensive and don't have the track record of longevity to fall back on. I'm with you that there's really no reason to spend crazy money on 6sn7 tubes. Don't confuse eBay prices with what tubes should cost and what you can get them for. Go with a good dealer who tests and you'll get good tubes and decent prices. Dbtubes, Brent Jesse, and Vintage Tube Services all have well tested NOS reasonably priced 6sn7. There's also no reason to get NOS with "defects." The old tubes were made at the height of tube manufacturing and engineering. Buying tested tubes from decent dealers is as safe as a transaction can be. I have a pair of what I think are the cheaper LinLai 6sn7 tubes. To put it charitably they sound thin in both my preamp and amp. They are a far cry from similarly priced Sylvania, RCA, or CBS.

What "sound" a tube has isn't set in stone. The best version to have will vary with the amp, the speakers/headphones, output tubes, and of course personal preference. Chinese tubes are more of a gamble for the price. I've been buying tubes for over 25 years and can say there are plenty of good sounding 6sn7 tubes for less than $50 readily available.

Edit: I have the cheap PSVane 6sn7, believe they are called the UK version for some reason.

 

[Isaacc7]

IMO, that is becos SYL WGTA isnt the best choice to show what some vintage tubes can really sound like. Just saying. Used to have 2 pairs, never like them. As you have mentioned, lack of character and can get bored with them easily.

Yeah, the later Sylvania 6sn7 and 6j5wgt are well known stinkers. Most tubes sound better than those lol.

 

[Designsfx]

Yeah, the later Sylvania 6sn7 and 6j5wgt are well known stinkers. Most tubes sound better than those lol.

How could that be? Just look at this beauty- and a bargain at that!

 

[LobalWarming]

How could that be? Just look at this beauty- and a bargain at that!

Unfortunate they don't have a pair of those. It's half of an 80s ECG 6SN7. A single channel doesn't quite deliver the full hideous sonic catastrophe. Peak cost accountant design and manufacturing.

But one person is watching... wonder if @bcowen looking for a (happily) long lost mate for his vault of shame collection.

 

[turbofeet]

I would scour the EARTH trying to find a pair of those MELZ 1578 from '76. That's my holy grail tube and I can't find them ANYWHERE

I have some original 1578s from 70s but these 6N8S are the direct replacement from the early 80s and they are also really excellent. They sound quite similar actually.

You really want Melz with the metal mouse ears rather than plastic also IMHO.

The 80s ones I have (from that seller) had thicker solder in the pins so I had to shave them down very slightly with a "diamond coated riffler" but they were completely silent. The 70s ones often need the pins resoldering.

 

[JollyGreen]

I have some original 1578s from 70s but these 6N8S are the direct replacement from the early 80s and they are also really excellent. They sound quite similar actually.

You really want Melz with the metal mouse ears rather than plastic also IMHO.

The 80s ones I have (from that seller) had thicker solder in the pins so I had to shave them down very slightly with a "diamond coated riffler" but they were completely silent. The 70s ones often need the pins resoldering.

Yeah the 80s ones have darker grey posts whereas the 70s have shiny posts. I’ve heard the 70s are superior in sound, specifically the 76 vintage. I’ve been chasing them for years but everyone is either trying to fool people and pawn off the oval plate version (much lesser AQ) for $600+ and hope someone doesn’t know better, or they only have the 50-60s or 80s runs. If you have some you ever want to sell, please let me know!

 

[turbofeet]

Yeah the 80s ones have darker grey posts whereas the 70s have shiny posts. I’ve heard the 70s are superior in sound, specifically the 76 vintage. I’ve been chasing them for years but everyone is either trying to fool people and pawn off the oval plate version (much lesser AQ) for $600+ and hope someone doesn’t know better, or they only have the 50-60s or 80s runs. If you have some you ever want to sell, please let me know!

I was very lucky with mine. I got them from a Ukrainian fellow about 3 years ago for about £450. Yeah it is a lot of money but they have been one of my favourites for years. I did have to get them resoldered twice though but now they are perfectly silent.

I've seen some really awful looking ones on Ebay for silly prices. I'm not even sure what variety they are. You do have to be careful.

I wouldn't discount those 1980s ones I linked above they are really decent as well

 

[bcowen]

Unfortunate they don't have a pair of those. It's half of an 80s ECG 6SN7. A single channel doesn't quite deliver the full hideous sonic catastrophe. Peak cost accountant design and manufacturing.

But one person is watching... wonder if @bcowen looking for a (happily) long lost mate for his vault of shame collection.

Lol! My feelings on ECG's have changed slightly over the years. No longer will I accept them for free. I will now only accept delivery after $100 per tube has been received in my PayPal account (with prepaid shipping of course).

 

[JamieMcC]

Devils advocate here, tried some early 60s matched Jan WGTA Sylvanias a few weeks ago. They are nice enough, but honestly nothing special jumped out at me. Bass was a bit light and muddled, but otherwise less interesting and with less character than other 50s NOS or budget new production.

The question really should be: do I want modern tubes that have characteristics of NOS without the many defects, do I want to experience and try out many inexpensive, flawed NOS tubes for fun, or do I want to spend a gazillion $ on iconic tubes that can only realistically be purchased as used and while good++ aren't the last tubes you will buy?

I've spent a bit of coin, but use the NOS tubes for making tv audio less horrible, and the expensive Linlai E-6SN7 ($75 ea) for music. Tonally accurate, no roll off, no dynamic killing warmth, no fake extended high freq shimmer at the expense of bass. Incredible layering, good prat, and unbelievable presence and a pretty touch on top. I hear Shuguang is a mite bit beefier. Art 3 is still new but promising from early testimonials.

Yeah I get NOS is fun and it is a hobby. I'm not saying don't buy NOS. But be realistic that in 2025 NOS 6SN7s are a horrible money pit of disappointment for the most part. I started a couple years ago and to be blunt, that was 30 years to late. The future is new chinese production, which comes with good warranty when purchased from chinese sellers. I would support them, no one else is developing and releasing new products.

YMMV, but that is my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Good post totally agree. I cherish the small collection of premium NOS 6SN7 the handful I've kept from trying dozens over the last 15 years they are to prised for general every day use and because of that I started looking at new production offerings that could more easily be replaced and after a lot of research ended up purchasing the Linlai E-6SN7 and it was money well spent performance is superb and for $75 it's a easy recommendation particularly if looking for a pair or more.

 

[Chris1967]

Where did you find the Linlai E-6SN7 for 75USD? I see on their global site 305USD for their top grade amd 265USD for the pass grade for a pair of matched tubes.

By the way has anyone tried the Psvane TREASURE CV181-Z ?