The Reference 6SN7 Thread

[mordy]

Spoke with someone at WE today. They expect to release the new line of tubes including 6SN7 next year. :/

What price points?

 

[UntilThen]

What price points?

No current production tubes will ever match NOS tubes of yesteryears. I envy Stevenvalve, he has 10,000+ NOS tubes. He told me, what do you want, I've ECC31, 33, 34, 35, EL34 metal base, 6550s, GEC KT88, 66, 77, Amperex, Telefunken, Miniwatt 12a*7, 6SL7, 6SN7s the list goes on. Even vintage transformers. GEC U52, Anything. Probably the biggest private collector I've ever seen.

 

[Wes S]

No current production tubes will ever match NOS tubes of yesteryears. I envy Stevenvalve, he has 10,000+ NOS tubes. He told me, what do you want, I've ECC31, 33, 34, 35, EL34 metal base, 6550s, GEC KT88, 66, 77, Amperex, Telefunken, Miniwatt 12a*7, 6SL7, 6SN7s the list goes on. Even vintage transformers. GEC U52, Anything. Probably the biggest private collector I've ever seen.

How do we get in touch with Stevenvalve? Does he sell to the public?

 

[cats4cans]

No current production tubes will ever match NOS tubes of yesteryears.

That's just silly. A lot of those old tubes were never even intended for audio. Yes, a lot of the practical knowledge was lost as tube manufacturing wound down. This isn't like Stonehenge or the pyramids. It's just an engineering problem that has been solved before, many times actually, by many different companies. When NOS tubes are going for ridiculous prices, it gives ample motivation for someone to design a modern replacement. Maybe some of the unobtanium crazy priced NOS tubes are like the Mona Lisa. I'm far from an expert, but for the money at least some new production tubes must be getting close.

 

[UntilThen]

That's just silly. A lot of those old tubes were never even intended for audio. Yes, a lot of the practical knowledge was lost as tube manufacturing wound down. This isn't like Stonehenge or the pyramids. It's just an engineering problem that has been solved before, many times actually, by many different companies. When NOS tubes are going for ridiculous prices, it gives ample motivation for someone to design a modern replacement. Maybe some of the unobtanium crazy priced NOS tubes are like the Mona Lisa. I'm far from an expert, but for the money at least some new production tubes must be getting close.

Well you are free to think that way but if you hear a current production tube and a NOS tube you will know it's chalk and cheese.

 

[UntilThen]

How do we get in touch with Stevenvalve? Does he sell to the public?

We can talk privately. I only recommend him to friends. A private person, he shuns publicity and the hassle of mass selling.

 

[cats4cans]

Well you are free to think that way but if you hear a current production tube and a NOS tube you will know it's chalk and cheese.

I was mostly objecting to the "ever" part. That's a long time. If we live long enough all the old tubes will be gone or too expensive. I really hope you're wrong. Also, it might help if some of the NOS tube experts could provide feedback on where the new production tubes are still lacking. It isn't magic, it's engineering. I don't think they're there yet either. I just hope that they will be before long.

 

[UntilThen]

It isn't magic, it's engineering.

It's also financial might. In the old days, it's the government's backing on tube production and whole of factories were dedicated to tube making. Nothing was spared to make the best and most robust tubes for the war.

Unless we have the financial clog of Mircosoft or Apple poring their money into tube production today, it's never going to rival what was produced by Mullard, GEC, Tung Sol of old... and that's not going to happen. Tubes don't make money today that mobilephone and PCs can today.

 

[UntilThen]

The irony of tubes is that many tubes were not made for audio but they sound great in audio.

 

[cats4cans]

It's also financial might. In the old days, it's the government's backing on tube production and whole of factories were dedicated to tube making. Nothing was spared to make the best and most robust tubes for the war.

Unless we have the financial clog of Mircosoft or Apple poring their money into tube production today, it's never going to rival what was produced by Mullard, GEC, Tung Sol of old... and that's not going to happen. Tubes don't make money today that mobilephone and PCs can today.

That would explain why so many of the favorite NOS tubes are old mil spec ones. I wonder how much the government paid for those originally, compared to the price now.

 

[UntilThen]

That would explain why so many of the favorite NOS tubes are old mil spec ones. I wonder how much the government paid for those originally, compared to the price now.

Just to give you an idea. Skylab paid $5 for a new Tung Sol 5998 during his time.

 

[Isaacc7]

No current production tubes will ever match NOS tubes of yesteryears. I envy Stevenvalve, he has 10,000+ NOS tubes. He told me, what do you want, I've ECC31, 33, 34, 35, EL34 metal base, 6550s, GEC KT88, 66, 77, Amperex, Telefunken, Miniwatt 12a*7, 6SL7, 6SN7s the list goes on. Even vintage transformers. GEC U52, Anything. Probably the biggest private collector I've ever seen.

“No current production tubes will ever match NOS tubes of yesteryear” is a statement of faith. There isn’t any reason why a new tube could not reach a similar level of performance as old ones.

As was pointed out, the tubes we love so much were not engineered for sound quality but for longevity, adherence to a spec, and manufacturing cost/consistency. Vacuum tubes were a mass produced consumable item, now they are an incredible niche item without the benefit of the manufacturing scale of yesteryear. There isn’t, and wasn’t, a “magic” variable that some companies decided to put in and others didn’t. I firmly believe that different tubes can sound different when swapped around in the same circuit but it’s important to avoid magical or cult like thinking.

If I didn’t already have an abundance of *sn7 tubes I would be eagerly looking forward to a new, high quality 6sn7. I have yet to hear two different 6sn7 tubes that sound the same. Along those lines I have yet to hear one that is always “the best” in every amp and in combination with every tube. Having another flavor is good news.

 

[UntilThen]

This is where I exit the discussion.

 

[Isaacc7]

I was mostly objecting to the "ever" part. That's a long time. If we live long enough all the old tubes will be gone or too expensive. I really hope you're wrong. Also, it might help if some of the NOS tube experts could provide feedback on where the new production tubes are still lacking. It isn't magic, it's engineering. I don't think they're there yet either. I just hope that they will be before long.

I think the differences can be chalked up to the fact that tubes had to be made to a higher standard in general back then. Audio just isn’t a demanding enough task to justify the extra care and expense that RF, communications, radar, computers, etc. demanded. The scale that they were made in allowed companies to amortize the extra expense over the vast quantity that were churned out.

WE will try to make high quality tubes but the small scale will make the price quite high.

 

[ThanatosVI]

No current production tubes will ever match NOS tubes of yesteryears.

Depends on the type.
Elrog 300Bs totally crush all NOS 300B and the difference is not small.

This certainly holds true the other way round for certain other types but also proves that new production tubes can be better than even the best of old