babyoh
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Is it normal for 7N7 to give lower gain vs 6SN7? I normally listen at 10 o'clock on the volume dial and have to turn up to 12-1 o'clock with 7N7.
The Reference 6SN7 Thread
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Designsfx
500+ Head-Fier
Every data sheet I’ve seen shows the two being basically equal as far as specs go.
bcowen
Headphoneus Supremus
No. They have the same amplification factor. It's possible the 7N7 is very worn and has lower emission.
WildPhydeaux
Head-Fier
Are you absolutely certain it's a 7N7 and not possibly a 7AF7, maybe worn off branding/type? Same pinout and construction but lower gain...
Cheers,
Robert
Isaacc7
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The 7af7 also has round plates and clear glass so it is another way to ID them.
babyoh
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Positive. Both tubes have 7N7 "stop signs" at the top.
bcowen
Headphoneus Supremus
Do you have a way to test them, or someone that can test them for you?
babyoh
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I did an A-B comparison between 2 sets of 7N7 (tall boy, clear glass vs grey glass) and the gain is back to normal at around 10 o'clock. I think my ears need to adjust to the less upfront and less transparent sounding grey glass that puts the soundstage further back for the perceived "lower gain".
Lakerfreak
100+ Head-Fier
I am still fairly new to tubes (coming from solid states) - how would you compare Melz 1578 to Tung Sol round plates in terms of sonic profile? I have been using 4x Tung Sol round plates and 2x Telefunken ECC801S for my LTA stack, and am curious how the Melz 1578 will be different from what I have now.
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LobalWarming
Headphoneus Supremus
That's a good question.
Best answered with another question:
Which era of Melz 1578? The harsh bright era of the '70s and '80s, the medium bright era of the '60s or the smooth, balanced era of the '50s?
Of my Melzies, I feel only the 1578s from '50s can compare well to the TS RP. The later generation 1578s are just too bright, harsh and gritty for long term enjoyment. Sure, they offer up an earful of fake detail, but doesn't wear well for me.
My '50s1578s are more similar in tonal balance to the TS RP, with a more laidback presentation which can be appealing. To my ears both are very good 6SN7s, the TS RP offering more midrange richness and body versus a little more detail from the 1578.
Neither tube is worth the insane price of today's holy grifter market. The TS RP VT-231 or Melz 1578 is a decent $50-$75 tube. But if cost is not a consideration, then consider 1578s from the '50s, unless you enjoy costly disappointment, then '70s 1578s might suffice.
Both are bested in soundstage presentation, detail and listening engagement by the lower cost twins from the DDT, 6J5/L63, 6C4 or EC86 families - in my opinion - which is the only opinion I have available at this time.
mordy
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Great post Lobal! I really enjoyed reading it!That's a good question.
Best answered with another question:
Which era of Melz 1578? The harsh bright era of the '70s and '80s, the medium bright era of the '60s or the smooth, balanced era of the '50s?
Of my Melzies, I feel only the 1578s from '50s can compare well to the TS RP. The later generation 1578s are just too bright, harsh and gritty for long term enjoyment. Sure, they offer up an earful of fake detail, but doesn't wear well for me.
My '50s1578s are more similar in tonal balance to the TS RP, with a more laidback presentation which can be appealing. To my ears both are very good 6SN7s, the TS RP offering more midrange richness and body versus a little more detail from the 1578.
Neither tube is worth the insane price of today's holy grifter market. The TS RP VT-231 or Melz 1578 is a decent $50-$75 tube. But if cost is not a consideration, then consider 1578s from the '50s, unless you enjoy costly disappointment, then '70s 1578s might suffice.
Both are bested in soundstage presentation, detail and listening engagement by the lower cost twins from the DDT, 6J5/L63, 6C4 or EC86 families - in my opinion - which is the only opinion I have available at this time.
I was just about to write the same thing.
LobalWarming
Headphoneus Supremus
Ah... you guys making my cathodes blush...I was just about to write the same thing.
I have some Melz from the 70s and 80s.That's a good question.
Best answered with another question:
Which era of Melz 1578? The harsh bright era of the '70s and '80s, the medium bright era of the '60s or the smooth, balanced era of the '50s?
Of my Melzies, I feel only the 1578s from '50s can compare well to the TS RP. The later generation 1578s are just too bright, harsh and gritty for long term enjoyment. Sure, they offer up an earful of fake detail, but doesn't wear well for me.
My '50s1578s are more similar in tonal balance to the TS RP, with a more laidback presentation which can be appealing. To my ears both are very good 6SN7s, the TS RP offering more midrange richness and body versus a little more detail from the 1578.
Neither tube is worth the insane price of today's holy grifter market. The TS RP VT-231 or Melz 1578 is a decent $50-$75 tube. But if cost is not a consideration, then consider 1578s from the '50s, unless you enjoy costly disappointment, then '70s 1578s might suffice.
Both are bested in soundstage presentation, detail and listening engagement by the lower cost twins from the DDT, 6J5/L63, 6C4 or EC86 families - in my opinion - which is the only opinion I have available at this time.
I find the 70s ones the most detailed tubes I have ever heard. Very clean and extremely extended. The 80s ones are a bit mellower. I have never found any of them bright but on my amp they are being balanced in conjunction with power tubes which will of course will make a difference. For example with WE 300B and their midrange focus they are amazing IMHO.
That said I've never heard the 50s ones.
I would certainly love to hear them but I've never seen them anywhere to purchase ever! unfortunately. Do let me know if you see any around
.As you say the scalper prices are ridiculous and most of them are not the right ones anyway. Its a real minefield with these particular tubes.
LobalWarming nailed it in his answer especially 1578s. I find brightness / detail of 70s 1578s artificIal due to distortions. TS RP and early 1578s are top tubes (but expensive), up the with B65s / CV1988s tubes etc.
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