The Reference 6SN7 Thread

[bcowen]

Are you losing interest in your cardboard amp case already? Did you not just finish going over it with barn paint?

Here is a better look at the wood, that side of my shop has LED lighting and it gets pretty harsh.

Paint? Huh? Why would I paint it? I already told you I had it electroplated with unobtanium. I'm packing it up now to send off for cryo treatment, and after that's done it'll go directly to Synergistic Research to get quantum tunneled. Wood, schmood. I'm going to have a cardboard case that most can only dream of.

 

[FLTWS]

That grain pattern looks reptilian. Boaconda perhaps.

 

[Paladin79]

That grain pattern looks reptilian. Boaconda perhaps.

I may accept a few bids on it but I would not be unhappy keeping this one for myself after a few folks hear it. I want @LoryWiv to compare it to his Feliks audio.

 

[LoryWiv]

I may accept a few bids on it but I would not be unhappy keeping this one for myself after a few folks hear it. I want @LoryWiv to compare it to his Feliks audio.

Nice, all in due course, and thank you my friend. This moment I am listening to Elise with the Melz '63 6SN7's you sent my way, driving GEC KT88 powers. The latter sounded a bit warm, euphonic but lacking that last bit of detail, until I swapped in the Melz --> magic is happening. Bach's Goldberg Variations on a modern piano never sounded so ... right!

 

[Paladin79]

Nice, all in due course, and thank you my friend. This moment I am listening to Elise with the Melz '63 6SN7's you sent my way, driving GEC KT88 powers. The latter sounded a bit warm, euphonic but lacking that last bit of detail, until I swapped in the Melz --> magic is happening. Bach's Goldberg Variations on a modern piano never sounded so ... right!

To me, the piano is one of the toughest instruments to replicate and something I listen to intently when picking tubes or proper sound in my Incubus amps. I have other variations of the Melz tube on the way just to see what they sound like. Many of those tubes fetch $100 up but every once in a while you can luck out if you take the chance.

 

[bcowen]

That grain pattern looks reptilian.

That's just @Paladin79 's reflection in the mirror.

 

[Paladin79]

That's just @Paladin79 's reflection in the mirror.

Ok someone just had their name crossed off the loaner amp list. LMAO

 

[bcowen]

Ok someone just had their name crossed off the loaner amp list. LMAO

LOL! Well that sure sucks for whoever it was.

 

[Paladin79]

Amp is complete and I have tried a few tubes, after a bit of burn in I will go to 1958 Melz solid plate 1578 equivalent. Testing with a 53 Foton right now. On to a Tung Sol BGRP a little later.

 

[azvargulis]

Hi 6SN7 lovers! Was hoping to get feedback from some experienced folks before giving up on some of these tubes.

I've been trying to acquire a collection of nicer vintage 6SN7 tubes for my Woo WA5-LE, and am stumped by some of the better-reviewed tubes sounding not-so-hot, and the most "common" tubes I have being among the best of the bunch.

From left to right (top row), we have (1) Sylvania "Bad Boys" (non-JAN) with matched date code, (2) more Sylvania "Bad Boys" (JAN) again with matched date code, (3) very non-exclusive Sylvanias I think from the 60's, but I don't actually know, and then (bottom) (4) Sylvania 6SN7Ws.

Pair (1) sounded very good (excellent clarity and presence), but one of the tubes, despite testing well, was very unstable (I could initially coax it to life with some tapping) and died on me about a week in. I didn't really get to fully evaluate, but they sounded much better than... Pair (2) despite looking (and supposedly testing) NOS, sound absolutely dull dull dull (poor detail, veiled, poor treble extension) - least favorite pair here. Pair (3) came with my amp, and despite being the "no big deal" tubes have the most clarity and airiness of the bunch and are my current favorite. Pair (4), which should theoretically be better than the black-base-yellow-label tubes are not as clean, a bit slower, and slightly tubby bass.

Most burning questions: Is it possible for one pair of "bad boy" tubes (2) to be that much worse than another, theoretically better-testing pair (1)? I burned them (2) in for about 30 hours, but is it possible that they "open up" (would have to be a LOT) with even more burn in? I only have another 3-4 days in my return window.

Other than that, just wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, or if I may be losing my mind. I don't mind paying fair market price for good vintage tubes, but at the same time, it really sucks to be disappointed when they go into the amp. I know tubes need to burn in, but some of these would need a pretty major transformation for me to be satisfied with them, and I just haven't had any other tubes change enough on me to have such an expectation.

Chain for reference: Custom NUC server w/ Roon ROCK --> Chord DAVE --> Woo WA5-LE --> Utopia

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

 

[bcowen]

Hi 6SN7 lovers! Was hoping to get feedback from some experienced folks before giving up on some of these tubes.

I've been trying to acquire a collection of nicer vintage 6SN7 tubes for my Woo WA5-LE, and am stumped by some of the better-reviewed tubes sounding not-so-hot, and the most "common" tubes I have being among the best of the bunch.

From left to right (top row), we have (1) Sylvania "Bad Boys" (non-JAN) with matched date code, (2) more Sylvania "Bad Boys" (JAN) again with matched date code, (3) very non-exclusive Sylvanias I think from the 60's, but I don't actually know, and then (bottom) (4) Sylvania 6SN7Ws.

Pair (1) sounded very good (excellent clarity and presence), but one of the tubes, despite testing well, was very unstable (I could initially coax it to life with some tapping) and died on me about a week in. I didn't really get to fully evaluate, but they sounded much better than... Pair (2) despite looking (and supposedly testing) NOS, sound absolutely dull dull dull (poor detail, veiled, poor treble extension) - least favorite pair here. Pair (3) came with my amp, and despite being the "no big deal" tubes have the most clarity and airiness of the bunch and are my current favorite. Pair (4), which should theoretically be better than the black-base-yellow-label tubes are not as clean, a bit slower, and slightly tubby bass.

Most burning questions: Is it possible for one pair of "bad boy" tubes (2) to be that much worse than another, theoretically better-testing pair (1)? I burned them (2) in for about 30 hours, but is it possible that they "open up" (would have to be a LOT) with even more burn in? I only have another 3-4 days in my return window.

Other than that, just wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, or if I may be losing my mind. I don't mind paying fair market price for good vintage tubes, but at the same time, it really sucks to be disappointed when they go into the amp. I know tubes need to burn in, but some of these would need a pretty major transformation for me to be satisfied with them, and I just haven't had any other tubes change enough on me to have such an expectation.

Chain for reference: Custom NUC server w/ Roon ROCK --> Chord DAVE --> Woo WA5-LE --> Utopia

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Just a couple comments:

1) If the first pair of Bad Boys responded favorably to 'tapping', my first thought would be that one or more of the pins has a bad solder connection. Are you able to solder and re-do the pins on those?

2) Your description of the 2nd pair of Bad Boys sounds to me like worn out tubes. When you state "supposedly" tested NOS, I'm assuming that's what the seller stated? If you bought them off Ebay, there are probably more sellers that are flat-out liars (or who use vintage testers that haven't been refurbished or calibrated in 50 years) than there are honest, reliable sellers. Not suggesting there aren't any good sellers on Ebay, just that they are greatly outnumbered by the charlatans (or ignorant ones). I'd bet that 2nd pair is on its last leg(s). If you have no way to test them and have a return window, I'd send them right back (myself). More burn-in will not improve the deficits you're hearing.

3) IMO (and let me doubly state that...IMO) the short bottle 6SN7W's are way overhyped. The tall bottle versions are much, much better.

 

[azvargulis]

Just a couple comments:

1) If the first pair of Bad Boys responded favorably to 'tapping', my first thought would be that one or more of the pins has a bad solder connection. Are you able to solder and re-do the pins on those?

2) Your description of the 2nd pair of Bad Boys sounds to me like worn out tubes. When you state "supposedly" tested NOS, I'm assuming that's what the seller stated? If you bought them off Ebay, there are probably more sellers that are flat-out liars (or who use vintage testers that haven't been refurbished or calibrated in 50 years) than there are honest, reliable sellers. Not suggesting there aren't any good sellers on Ebay, just that they are greatly outnumbered by the charlatans (or ignorant ones). I'd bet that 2nd pair is on its last leg(s). If you have no way to test them and have a return window, I'd send them right back (myself). More burn-in will not improve the deficits you're hearing.

3) IMO (and let me doubly state that...IMO) the short bottle 6SN7W's are way overhyped. The tall bottle versions are much, much better.

Thank you so much for this. I have never soldered tubes, and don't really have confidence in myself to do this right. The seller of that pair (the one with the tube that died completely) is super responsive and has offered to send me a replacement, as he had a few pairs on hand.

I'll see if anyone else has other thoughts, but based on your feedback, my current plan is to send those back.

 

[tubebuyer2020]

@bcowen do you think you had worn out any of the tubes you own yourself, by the way? I could not find accurate information on how long 6SN7-like octals are supposed to last...

 

[Deceneu808]

Just a couple comments:

1) If the first pair of Bad Boys responded favorably to 'tapping', my first thought would be that one or more of the pins has a bad solder connection. Are you able to solder and re-do the pins on those?

2) Your description of the 2nd pair of Bad Boys sounds to me like worn out tubes. When you state "supposedly" tested NOS, I'm assuming that's what the seller stated? If you bought them off Ebay, there are probably more sellers that are flat-out liars (or who use vintage testers that haven't been refurbished or calibrated in 50 years) than there are honest, reliable sellers. Not suggesting there aren't any good sellers on Ebay, just that they are greatly outnumbered by the charlatans (or ignorant ones). I'd bet that 2nd pair is on its last leg(s). If you have no way to test them and have a return window, I'd send them right back (myself). More burn-in will not improve the deficits you're hearing.

3) IMO (and let me doubly state that...IMO) the short bottle 6SN7W's are way overhyped. The tall bottle versions are much, much better.

What is "tapping" ?

 

[bcowen]

@bcowen do you think you had worn out any of the tubes you own yourself, by the way? I could not find accurate information on how long 6SN7-like octals are supposed to last...

I've had a good number of tubes test as worn out immediately after receipt from some Ebay purchases ("worn out" meaning testing below minimum GM or emission levels). Can't say that I've ever worn out a pair of new-testing tubes from use, although I've had some that have developed noise or significant microphonics after a period of time. As far as life span on a 6SN7 (or any other tube for that matter), a lot depends on how it is run in the circuit. If it's run at conservative voltages, then a 6SN7 can probably last 5k hours, maybe more. If it's run at the upper end (or max) of its ratings, then 1k hours may be the max. I've seen stories of Western Electric 300B tubes still going strong after 20+ years of 24/7 operation in telephone equipment, although I would imagine they were run quite conservatively in that equipment. I have 9k hours (and counting) on the KR 300BXLS output tubes in my Jota amp. While they don't test at NOS levels, they are still well above minimum. My tester has settings for a regular 300B but it doesn't have specific settings for the higher-output XLS version (which were developed long after Hickok disappeared from the market), so I can only get an approximation on my tester. But I can't tell any sonic difference (yet) when swapping in a new pair that I have as backups, which is a more valid test.