[Elephas]

I'm a more recent Raptor owner, making the purchase earlier this year.

I don't consider the power supply heat and slight 3 second hum upon powering up to be warranty issues. They had no effect on my enjoyment of the amp.

I don't think current Raptor owners are losing anything by not going for the $50 or $200 upgrades. The amp is great as is. As a current owner, I see the upgrades as options that are priced very reasonably.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg Depends on your perspective. Such a value-drop on an amp purchased nearly two years ago is not so much of an issue. But more recent buyers (say, within the past 3-6 months) would have liked the same timeframe during which their amps retained value that you had. I completely understand that it is not feasible for RS Audio to upgrade all existing Raptor owners for free. That would not be a reasonable expectation. And by using the new "super" PS as the standard for all new Raptors while maintaining the same price is a boon to new buyers. However, in an industry & hobby where upgraditus and the associated equipment turnover is quite common, it is nice to maintain one's investment as long as possible thereby enabling the resale/upgrade process (or at least try). Now whether the new PS actually provides any sonic improvement, or what the delta is compared to the original, we don't really know atm. No claims have been explictly stated. But the implication is that there should be so everyone wonders, thus driving existing amps' value to new lows.In the DIYFSE market perhaps. But I count four updates to the Raptor in the past six months (that I know of, anyway). I don't think Cary or MF make such changes so rapidly, or without announcements well in advance. Larger companies need longer lead times. Now, you pay for that too, in the up-front cost. And you can argue that you get more value from a smaller, more nimble niche company. And to expect any audio gear to maintain value for any time at all is probably not a reasonable expectation either. I understand all that. It's not unreasonable however, that many existing owners might think there could have been ways of marketing the new PS as a value-ad while preserving value of existing customers gear, at least for a time, such as what you suggested Mike. I don't expect, nor want a response to this post. It's less a matter of right or wrong, and more about perspective. But it's not unthinkable that some owners feel left way out of the loop on this one.

I know, I read you weren't looking for a response. However, I wanted to point out that I certainly recognize there is another side to this as your example suggests relative to more recent owners. However, generally speaking the 1 1/2 year old amp will generally sell for the same as the 6 month old amp on Head-Fi. I don't believe there is a perfect way to do this. Some people may not like the way it's being done, others might not have a problem with it. So no, it is not unthinkable that some owners might "feel left way out of the loop on this one."

I agree, whether their is an improvement in sound quality is a question mark at the moment. As I said in my earlier post, I'm doing the $200 upgrade with the "hope" that there will be an improvement.

 

[Ray Samuels]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg Depends on your perspective. Such a value-drop on an amp purchased nearly two years ago is not so much of an issue. But more recent buyers (say, within the past 3-6 months) would have liked the same timeframe during which their amps retained value that you had. I completely understand that it is not feasible for RS Audio to upgrade all existing Raptor owners for free. That would not be a reasonable expectation. And by using the new "super" PS as the standard for all new Raptors while maintaining the same price is a boon to new buyers. However, in an industry & hobby where upgraditus and the associated equipment turnover is quite common, it is nice to maintain one's investment as long as possible thereby enabling the resale/upgrade process (or at least try). Now whether the new PS actually provides any sonic improvement, or what the delta is compared to the original, we don't really know atm. No claims have been explictly stated. But the implication is that there should be so everyone wonders, thus driving existing amps' value to new lows.In the DIYFSE market perhaps. But I count four updates to the Raptor in the past six months (that I know of, anyway). I don't think Cary or MF make such changes so rapidly, or without announcements well in advance. Larger companies need longer lead times. Now, you pay for that too, in the up-front cost. And you can argue that you get more value from a smaller, more nimble niche company. And to expect any audio gear to maintain value for any time at all is probably not a reasonable expectation either. I understand all that. It's not unreasonable however, that many existing owners might think there could have been ways of marketing the new PS as a value-ad while preserving value of existing customers gear, at least for a time, such as what you suggested Mike. I don't expect, nor want a response to this post. It's less a matter of right or wrong, and more about perspective. But it's not unthinkable that some owners feel left way out of the loop on this one.

Hi James...
I don't know why you are calling it a drop in value. I don't see every one in a panic trying to sell their Raptor. The up-grade of $50.00 dollars does everything you wish your Raptor will do. First no start on hum wich last 2/10th of a second only. The second is that the power supply runs cold to touch. This by it self should be a very positive up-grades to the owners of the Raptors. You mentioned 4-6 up-grades on the Raptor, did you ever read if these up-grades were given for a certain dollars amount? or the buyer paid for them? NO, they were all given FREE of charge PARTS LABOR, so why should any body complain. May be free is not appreciated, only if I charge for it then it could be.
Look at the Hornet, again FREE up-date, am I considered bad in giving free up-dates.

Yes i was told by some good brains on this forum to give the $50.00 up-grade with all new Raptor keeping the same price as $1175.00, & offer the Super power supply as an up-grade where buyers pay another $200.00 extra on the price of the Raptor making it $1375.00.
May be I should have done so, as every one knows all components are going up in price due to shift to no lead standards.
Why does not an owner of the Raptor think that he has an option in the coming months to up-grade to a super power supply & look at it the positive way instead saying this up-grade reduced the selling price of my Raptor?
Looks like you will never ever win.
Ray Samuels

 

[Bones13]

I personally have had great response when dealing with Ray. My PSU arrives on his doorstep today for the upgrade. An upgrade which, while not "necessary" for the noise and the heat from my standpoint either. I also won't mind a sound increase, but the lack of the startup noise, and heat production will be helpful in an amp that I already love. I did not buy an amp with the resale value being much of a concern. Other companies that have upgraded their gear have charged well for upgrades, if an upgrade option existed at all.

My question :

Will a more refined powersupply have a longer life? (less heat, better efficiency)

My concern :

Despite some of the less kind words here, I hope I am not too far back in the line.

More power to you Ray.

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bones13 My question : Will a more refined powersupply have a longer life? (less heat, better efficiency)

Yes, less heat means less stress put on the components inside the power supply.

 

[Ray Samuels]

This is just another reminder for all Raptor's owners who want their power supplies upgraded, please send it in, I do not know for how long I am going to offer the 2 modes, but for sure I do want at least the $50.00 mode done to all the remaining Raptors in the field in order to put an end to the heat issue & the start up, short hum.
Thanks.
Ray Samuels

 

[mrarroyo]

Being a Meathead I get to meddle in other people's business, so here it is:

Be thankful that the option is given! Very few manufacturer's do so, when was the last time you were able to take in your car to have a more efficient engine/transmission put in?

Good luck and enjoy the amp!

By the way if you are upset you do not have to make the change, better yet send it to me.

 

[909]

As the old saying goes, you can’t please all the people all the time. I don’t think anyone likes spending more, consumers or manufacturers. And there’s no free lunch. Those purchasing new Raptors make out while previously purchased raptor owners need to shell out some additionally cash for the $50 mod or $200 upgrade if they desire. At least they presently have a reasonably price mod available. The $200 upgrade is harder when new owners get it without a premium, yet new parts aren’t free.

If I owned a Raptor I would opt for the $50 mod.

If a raptor owner had a heat related warranty issue and didn’t want to pay for a mod or upgraded power supply would they get back a repaired original design power supply? I am sorry to pry, but I am curious.

 

[Ray Samuels]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 As the old saying goes, you can’t please all the people all the time. I don’t think anyone likes spending more, consumers or manufacturers. And there’s no free lunch. Those purchasing new Raptors make out while previously purchased raptor owners need to shell out some additionally cash for the $50 mod or $200 upgrade if they desire. At least they presently have a reasonably price mod available. The $200 upgrade is harder when new owners get it without a premium, yet new parts aren’t free. If I owned a Raptor I would opt for the $50 mod. If a raptor owner had a heat related warranty issue and didn’t want to pay for a mod or upgraded power supply would they get back a repaired original design power supply? I am sorry to pry, but I am curious.

Hi Dave...
The main reason I wrote this post is, first to bump it to the top & second to remind the rest of the Raptor's owners, who either forgot about this offer, or did not see this post to take advantage of this offer, NOW, before I get to involved with building the B-52 amps.
The Raptor has no related warrenty issues, at all, but for as little as I am asking, to make an improvement, lets call it, won't it be worth the $50.00, my firend?
Thanks.
Ray Samuels

 

[909]

Of course Ray, that's why I indicated if I owned a raptor I would get the reasonably priced $50 mod.

I appreciate your reply. Thank you.

 

[tyrion]

I've been burning in my new Raptor ps. The ps gets just a bit warm and is silent. In terms of sonic differences, I believe on certain tracks the bass is tighter with increased dynamics. This is not too unlike the changes I've noticed when using certain higher end power cords.

 

[Elephas]

My Raptor power supply with the $200 upgrade has returned from its trip back to home base.

It runs cooler than before and there's no startup hum.

I put the stock tubes in and plugged in the K701. Wow, the black background, soundstage, details, bass...yes, the K701's bass is strong, deep, impactful and textured.

The Raptor drives the K701 very well.

 

[skyline889]

If only the $50 power supply upgrade is purchased, can the amp section be stacked over the DPS? Or will it overheat?

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 If only the $50 power supply upgrade is purchased, can the amp section be stacked over the DPS? Or will it overheat?

No.

Regardless of the PS, the amp unit still gets hot. And I don't think the connecting umbilical is long/flexible enough to allow it anyway.

Not recommended.

 

[Elephas]

The top part of my fully upgraded power supply gets warm. It's not as hot as before, but not cold to the touch, either.

The tube section should not be placed on top of the power supply.

Edit: The PS is warmer when driving the HD650 and cooler when driving the HF-1. Only the top part of the case becomes warm. The sides, back, front and bottom are cool.