[speedingcheetah]

They seem to be trying to make their dongles more desktop friendly. As you say, the (only) real strength of the 5K is in its software. If they can't keep that competitive, then they have nothing. And their competition really isn't against other dongles. Qudelix has to persuade people that they need an entry-level bluetooth dongle (and PEQ app) instead of just a phone with bluetooth earbuds. That is their real competition.


I'm still digging around in it myself. Most of the additions seem ideally suited to a desktop speaker setup rather than to headphones.

I do use a 5k connected via BT to my Apple TV, to power a set of Creative T4 2.1 speakers, as my main sound system for tv, and PC.

I do find using the DAC is way better sound quality then connecting the speakers to the ATV directly via the speakers BT 2.0 connection.

I also need to attenuate the right speaker by about 3.5db, due to its placement against a wall in a corner, causing the sound to be amplified a bit compared to the L speaker being in open room. The EQ and Filter selection also been a treat. Took some time, but got it dialed in, and how i control bass too, since the bass adjust knob is on the sub, which is stuffed away behind a desk, hard to reach. Just use one of several EQ profiles i have saved in the Q app. Having to re do all that to 10 band, not wanting to do that. But seem i may not have to.

I still have no intension, nor do i even understand their new user +spkr EQ style... one EQ does what i want it to, always has, and so does most any other DAC out there that has but a single EQ, not multiple. Not saying there aren't people out there that can make use of 10+10 EQ, but i for sure am not interested in it. Having both options, cool.

 

[Hypops]

It's a cool project but if you look at Oratory1990's actual EQ profiles I think the results tend to be much better. They're actually doing it by ear and thinking about the changes being made, not just blindly trying to hit a curve like the algorithm is.

So, so true. I tend to go back to oratory1990's database (and their excellent description of their method) to begin my EQ process. I also find oratory1990's custom target curve the closest to my own preferences.

 

[Hypops]

Having to re do all that to 10 band, not wanting to do that. But seem i may not have to.

No judgment, but are you sure you really need more than a 10-band EQ? Chances are, if you're dialing in your EQ that finely, you may be doing more harm than good (not to mention that you are severely limiting how much you can move your head). You also would want to have reliable measurements and a good measurement rig if you're fine tuning that far, and if that's the case, the 5K probably isn't going to give you what you're after anyway. Since you're using it over bluetooth, you're already taking a hit to sound quality that no amount of EQ can fix.

I still have no intension, nor do i even understand their new user +spkr EQ style... one EQ does what i want it to, always has, and so does most any other DAC out there that has but a single EQ, not multiple. Not saying there aren't people out there that can make use of 10+10 EQ, but i for sure am not interested in it. Having both options, cool.

If you're using the 5K with desktop speakers, then you should think about EQ-ing your left and right speakers individually. Again, if you're already using 20-bands to EQ both channels together, you could actually be *much* more precise by using just a few bands per speaker instead. And you might also find that something like a miniDSP 2x4 HD ($100) accomplishes what you're after much, much better.

 

[speedingcheetah]

No judgment, but are you sure you really need more than a 10-band EQ? Chances are, if you're dialing in your EQ that finely, you may be doing more harm than good (not to mention that you are severely limiting how much you can move your head). You also would want to have reliable measurements and a good measurement rig if you're fine tuning that far, and if that's the case, the 5K probably isn't going to give you what you're after anyway. Since you're using it over bluetooth, you're already taking a hit to sound quality that no amount of EQ can fix.


If you're using the 5K with desktop speakers, then you should think about EQ-ing your left and right speakers individually. Again, if you're already using 20-bands to EQ both channels together, you could actually be *much* more precise by using just a few bands per speaker instead. And you might also find that something like a miniDSP 2x4 HD ($100) accomplishes what you're after much, much better.

Yes i use the 20 bands, and no i do not want to dive into that debate.... All i needed for that aspect is lower volume for one speaker. not EQ adjust. Both speakers sound the same to me with that volume adjustment, as i want them to be. They are satellites anyways and have limited range anyways.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I just hooked up a 5K to the browser app, to export my EQ profiles, just to be safe, and i notice the updated extension now adds an additional line to the exported .txt compared to past version. So my old exports are 23 lines, the new ones 24 lines. (the dac is still on 2.x.x firmware)

line 2 now has the EQ type:
TYPE: GEQ

 

[Hypops]

Yes i use the 20 bands, and no i do not want to dive into that debate....

Just trying to suggest solutions to your problems.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Just trying to suggest solutions to your problems. But if you'd rather just complain, that's cool too.

I don't have any problems with my current settings or setup, and am not complaining about anything as it is or has been. (other than agreeing with the user that mentioned Fiio app was crap). What exists works perfect for me and have no intention or desire to change it.

The fact that Qudelix actually made the new EQ style optional, i was not expecting though. If they had forced changed it, then i would have problems.

 

[4udio7ool]

For those who are wondering about the new EQ system, their description of what they are are buried on their forms.

https://forum.qudelix.com/post/usr-eq-spk-eq-12766523?pid=1336219029

https://forum.qudelix.com/post/usr-eq-spk-eq-12766523?pid=1336226594

Thanks for the links. I get it now.

Use SPK-EQ to tune your headphones to a specific target curve. Use USR-EQ to further tune those for specific uses (EX: movies, music), music types (EX: EDM, classical), moods, etc. I actually find value in this approach.

Another use case is if you know how your preference differs from a set of presets, you can enter the presets as SPK-EQ and tune them using a USR-EQ instead of changing them all manually. For example if you like to start with oratory1990 presets that tune to the Harman Target but prefer your headphones to have less energy in the 1k-3k range, you can create one USR-EQ that applies a negative gain in the 1k-3k range and enter unmodified oratory1990 presets for all of your headphones in the SPK-EQ. And if you change your mind later, just one EQ to change.

 

[speedingcheetah]

Thanks for the links. I get it now.

Use SPK-EQ to tune your headphones to a specific target curve. Use USR-EQ to further tune those for specific uses (EX: movies, music), music types (EX: EDM, classical), moods, etc. I actually find value in this approach.

Another use case is if you know how your preference differs from a set of presets, you can enter the presets as SPK-EQ and tune them using a USR-EQ instead of changing them all manually. For example if you like to start with oratory1990 presets that tune to the Harman Target but prefer your headphones to have less energy in the 1k-3k range, you can create one USR-EQ that applies a negative gain in the 1k-3k range and enter unmodified oratory1990 presets for all of your headphones in the SPK-EQ. And if you change your mind later, just one EQ to change.

I already have just one EQ to change. I just plug in (new) headphones, hear how they sound with no EQ on, and then make a EQ profile to make them sound to my liking (my specific target curve that SPK-EQ is for i guess) . Done. I have no further adjustments.

If i have some other need for a different sound profile temporarily, maybe a "less bass" mode, i edit my existing EQ Profile and save it as a new one in the list.
It is just one tap to change profiles.

I guess some people like it overly complex to manage, this idea and process of multiple and overlapping EQ's and profiles.
But to each his own.
Everyone's setup is unique and so are their preferences.

 

[Hypops]

Thanks for the links. I get it now.

Use SPK-EQ to tune your headphones to a specific target curve. Use USR-EQ to further tune those for specific uses (EX: movies, music), music types (EX: EDM, classical), moods, etc. I actually find value in this approach.

Another use case is if you know how your preference differs from a set of presets, you can enter the presets as SPK-EQ and tune them using a USR-EQ instead of changing them all manually. For example if you like to start with oratory1990 presets that tune to the Harman Target but prefer your headphones to have less energy in the 1k-3k range, you can create one USR-EQ that applies a negative gain in the 1k-3k range and enter unmodified oratory1990 presets for all of your headphones in the SPK-EQ. And if you change your mind later, just one EQ to change.

Yeah, it's one of those ideas that maybe looks good on paper, but ends up being a bit clunky in practice (seems infinitely easier just to create a whole other profile rather than layer two EQ profiles on top of one another). It also might make switching between headphones a bit more complicated since it means having to change two EQ profiles instead of just one.

Need a week or more to see how I end up using it in real-world applications. I might just switch it back to the old style.

 

[XTF1]

The 5K latest FW pretty much mimics what the T71 does for 2ch DSP. I have the T71 and I actually like very much where Qudelix is going here... I love the 5K/T71 powerful DSP capabilities but I would be the first one to recognize that it can be overwhelming, and getting/correcting what you want with a PEQ is far from easy.

AutoEQ profiles can be a good place to start, but you need to tailor them to your own ears and preferences to make them worthwhile.

That's exactly the point: the Speaker (or HP, or IEM) PEQ is where AutoEQ presets are applied. They do 90% of the heavy-lifting for you. Then you can use the User EQ to adjust & fine-tune your personal preferences> As an example, I think the new option to combine a 10-band Speaker PEQ with a 10-band GEQ makes perfect sense: you get the "complex" PEQ in Speaker PEQ and a more intuitive 10-band GEQ in User GEQ... Hiby DAPs are moving in the same direction when you combine the PEQ--the equivalent of Speaker PEQ--and MSEB--the equivalent of User EQ.

As far as FiiO, I gave up after the BTR5.... I don't know where their software stands today (is it really that bad...?), but I know that I still receive major SW updates for my old 5K whereas my BTR5 is just... collecting dust.

They rolled out this update because the competition has rapidly caught up to them.

Who is rapidly catching up? FiiO? To me, they are rapidly moving in multiple directions, that's for sure.

I already have just one EQ to change. I just plug in (new) headphones, hear how they sound with no EQ on, and then make a EQ profile to make them sound to my liking. Done. If i have some other need for a different sound profile, maybe a "less bass" mode, i edit my existing EQ Profile and save it as a new one. It is just one tap to change profiles.

That's absolutely fine !!! But why would you even consider the 5K then?

 

[speedingcheetah]

That's absolutely fine !!! But why would you even consider the 5K then?

Because of the EQ, and the sound quality... because i needed a BT DAC and Fiio sucked and i did not see any better options really. 5K had the better reviews on Amazon.

The 5K and all the other DACs i have had over the years, all just have ever had a single EQ. This multiple layered EQ is very new. The 5K came with single 10band EQ, then they upgraded it to 20band, and for me, i noticed a difference when i took the time to convert and fine tune to 20 band. (i posted about it back then as well) Not a huge difference, but a refinement to my ears.

 

[XTF1]

It also might make switching between headphones a bit more complicated since it means having to change two EQ profiles instead of just one.

I would disagree with you on this!
Here is my scenario: I develop a personal preference curve in the User EQ section (GEQ or PEQ) based on say Oratory measurement of Headphone "A" (AutoEQ stored in Speaker PEQ). I now switch to Headphone "B", load the same Oratory AutoEQ and voila! I still have my, unchanged (!!! !!!), personal preference curve in the User EQ... but now applied to Headphones "B". I think it is a lot sleeker...

 

[XTF1]

when i took the time to convert and fine tune to 20 band

I flat-out admire your dedication and patience !!! For me, if a HP/IEM needs more than say 5-6 PEQ filters to sound "right", it is an utter garbage, not worth my time...

 

[Hypops]

The 5K latest FW pretty much mimics what the T71 does for 2ch DSP. I have the T71 and I actually like very much where Qudelix is going here... I love the 5K/T71 powerful DSP capabilities but I would be the first one to recognize that it can be overwhelming, and getting/correcting what you want with a PEQ is far from easy.

This makes a lot more sense on the T71 since that's designed for more than 2-channels and for more than just headphones. I guess they're just simplifying things by creating a one-size-fits-all app for all their devices, but it really doesn't make much sense to me for the 5K. I could be overlooking some obvious use case though.

That's exactly the point: the Speaker (or HP, or IEM) PEQ is where AutoEQ presets are applied. They do 90% of the heavy-lifting for you. Then you can use the User EQ to adjust & fine-tune your personal preferences> As an example, I think the new option to combine a 10-band Speaker PEQ with a 10-band GEQ makes perfect sense: you get the "complex" PEQ in Speaker PEQ and a more intuitive 10-band GEQ in User GEQ... Hiby DAPs are moving in the same direction when you combine the PEQ--the equivalent of Speaker PEQ--and MSEB--the equivalent of User EQ.

Right, but then why would you need the original AutoEQ preset at that point? Once you've adjusted it to your liking/needs, you don't need the original anymore. If you do need the default preset for some reason, it's always there in the AutoEQ database. No need for it to occupy an entire PEQ preset slot. I don't get it. Seems like an attempt to simplify things that actually makes them more complicated. Dunno.

Who is rapidly catching up? FiiO? To me, they are rapidly moving in multiple directions, that's for sure.

Many other options now for PEQ on mobile devices, not just other dongles. Like I said above, an entry-level dongle like the 5K isn't just competing against other dongles. It's competing against people who just use their phones, a DAP, or even a desktop setup in some cases. As for me, I'm finding that I actually use Roon ARC for PEQ more often than I use the PEQ on the 5K. And if that's the case, there's less reason for me to bother with the 5K anymore. However, the advantage is that the 5K can do L/R PEQ separately. The 5K suddenly becomes viable as an office solution for doing room correction on my desktop speakers .