The Qudelix-5K thread

[speedingcheetah]

My iOS app seems to have auto updated, some Ui changes.

Seems to work fine with previous firmware. See no reason to update firmware.

 

[Hypops]

My iOS app seems to have auto updated, some Ui changes.

Seems to work fine with previous firmware. See no reason to update firmware.

I guess it depends on what you use the 5K for. This update has lots changes to the DSP options, so if you use any of the DSP tools, this is a major update. And, honestly, without the DSP tools, I'm not sure why else you'd use the 5K. But, as ever, YMMV.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I guess it depends on what you use the 5K for. This update has lots changes to the DSP options, so if you use any of the DSP tools, this is a major update. And, honestly, without the DSP tools, I'm not sure why else you'd use the 5K. But, as ever, YMMV.

Existing 20band EQ and changing profiles works fine still with current 2.x firmware. I have no desire to change or adapt to their new annoying and unwanted(to me) changes.
If it works, don't fix it.

Though, it seems they did make changes to allow for single use of 20band, and made the new 10+10 EQ thing a mode, and not the only EQ options. Maybe that is why they delayed it much longer. Though, perhaps it is a transitionary step. In the future, fully removing the single 20band mode perhaps, seems they are keen to do that, to make it work identical to the T71 higher model DAC. That was their intentions from the start.

I do have a spare 5K i am not using atm, (replaced it with a different DAC that supports Optical in) once they work the initial bugs out of the 3.x firmware, may update that unit just to play around with things though.

I am surprised, though, happy, they seemed to have taken to heart feedback left by me, and others who spotted their 5K Update Plan thread.
They do make a very good product, but they have competition. Fosi Audio has reached out to me and many others, and started a dialog via group chat for user feedback on product development and improvement. They are making some compelling rivals to Qudelix, Fiio, etc.

 

[speedingcheetah]

For those who are wondering about the new EQ system, their description of what they are are buried on their forms.

https://forum.qudelix.com/post/usr-eq-spk-eq-12766523?pid=1336219029

https://forum.qudelix.com/post/usr-eq-spk-eq-12766523?pid=1336226594

 

[Hypops]

They do make a very good product, but they have competition.

I think you answered your own question. They rolled out this update because the competition has rapidly caught up to them. The 5K's DSP tools are what initially set it apart, so Qudelix has to update those tools to keep this thing relevant. If you don't like the update, you can just switch to the 20-band option and ignore the new stuff.

 

[speedingcheetah]

If you don't like the update, you can just switch to the 20-band option and ignore the new stuff.

For now.... their initial announcement and subsequent posts were very aggressive in stating their changes were permanent, absolute and superior to they way any user wanted to use their product as they have been. Give no option to stay on single 20 band, their amazing industry changing enhancement they pushed 1yr ago. lol

Guess they changed their minds and made it more flexible.

 

[zilax002]

Is the competition catching up though? Fiio is one of the main competitors in the space with the BTR5 and what not but their software (apps) are almost universally described as "bad." Certainly not feature-rich like the 5K. I much prefer Fiio for pure sound quality but for features ... I recently got the KA17 and haven't even tried to mess with the EQ yet. Partially because I got it for couch/casual use of full-size headphones that I don't think need EQ, but also because previous experiences with their app have not been enticing.

I'm mostly at a loss as to what these changes are really accomplishing though. Like, yeah, in theory I can imagine some people who AutoEQ everything (I find the results vary waaaay too wildly for me to want to do that myself) wanting some separate presets. But you can just adjust any of the AutoEQ profiles to whatever you want already.

How is this not just making it twice as complex for little to no appreciable benefits?

 

[zilax002]

I guess it depends on what you use the 5K for. This update has lots changes to the DSP options, so if you use any of the DSP tools, this is a major update. And, honestly, without the DSP tools, I'm not sure why else you'd use the 5K. But, as ever, YMMV.

Mind detailing some of those new DSP tools?

I'm curious but wary to update since on the face of it this update seems like a move in a direction I'm not interested in. And I'm not sure how easy (or possible) it is to downgrade firmware for the 5K.

 

[Hypops]

Is the competition catching up though? Fiio is one of the main competitors in the space with the BTR5 and what not but their software (apps) are almost universally described as "bad." Certainly not feature-rich like the 5K. I much prefer Fiio for pure sound quality but for features ... I recently got the KA17 and haven't even tried to mess with the EQ yet. Partially because I got it for couch/casual use of full-size headphones that I don't think need EQ, but also because previous experiences with their app have not been enticing.

I'm mostly at a loss as to what these changes are really accomplishing though. Like, yeah, in theory I can imagine some people who AutoEQ everything (I find the results vary waaaay too wildly for me to want to do that myself) wanting some separate presets. But you can just adjust any of the AutoEQ profiles to whatever you want already.

How is this not just making it twice as complex for little to no appreciable benefits?

They seem to be trying to make their dongles more desktop friendly. As you say, the (only) real strength of the 5K is in its software. If they can't keep that competitive, then they have nothing. And their competition really isn't against other dongles. Qudelix has to persuade people that they need an entry-level bluetooth dongle (and PEQ app) instead of just a phone with bluetooth earbuds. That is their real competition.

Mind detailing some of those new DSP tools?

I'm curious but wary to update since on the face of it this update seems like a move in a direction I'm not interested in. And I'm not sure how easy (or possible) it is to downgrade firmware for the 5K.

I'm still digging around in it myself. Most of the additions seem ideally suited to a desktop speaker setup rather than to headphones.

 

[khtd]

How is this not just making it twice as complex for little to no appreciable benefits?

I think this was mainly done to help developers - Qudelix is a small firm with few resources, and they are not able to support multiple products at the same time. Making firmware for T71 & 5K similar in the most complex areas enables them to develop those areas further and push changes to both devices once without having to split the effort for each device.

 

[speedingcheetah]

are almost universally described as "bad."

Yeeeaaa.... The Fiio app, i have had nothing but issues with. It is terrible, imo. Qudelix app is a million times better. Fosi Audio, i am not sure they have products that are app based control, they make more desktop hardware based amps/dacs with physical controls etc.

I still have a couple of Fiio EK17 Alpen 2 DACs, those i used for years, but the dial control on them, gets sloppy and fails after a time.

I'm mostly at a loss as to what these changes are really accomplishing though. Like, yeah, in theory I can imagine some people who AutoEQ everything (I find the results vary waaaay too wildly for me to want to do that myself) wanting some separate presets. But you can just adjust any of the AutoEQ profiles to whatever you want already.

My understanding, Auto EQs are there to set that specific named headphone to the "Flat" reference signal. Who made those EQ profiles, i am not sure, so called audio engineers, or maybe some "professional audiophiles"? I tried a few of them, but they do not have any for the specific headphones i have. They sounded like crap to me.

 

[zilax002]

I think this was mainly done to help developers - Qudelix is a small firm with few resources, and they are not able to support multiple products at the same time. Making firmware for T71 & 5K similar in the most complex areas enables them to develop those areas further and push changes to both devices once without having to split the effort for each device.

Yeah, I imagine that's probably the case. But if the changes don't also appeal to users I think things get a little dicey.

Also, not that we have sales numbers, but I have to imagine the 5K outpaces the T71 sales by a huge margin. I literally bought a 5K without even knowing the T71 existed. And when I was pleasantly surprised by the 5K and wished they made something a little high end with more power I was legitimately shocked to find that they did. But it's considerably more expensive and with a focus (surround sound) that's interesting but not really what I use the 5K for.

 

[speedingcheetah]

I think this was mainly done to help developers - Qudelix is a small firm with few resources, and they are not able to support multiple products at the same time. Making firmware for T71 & 5K similar in the most complex areas enables them to develop those areas further and push changes to both devices once without having to split the effort for each device.

Yea. That is what i said, a business/developer based decision. Unifying their firmware makes it much easier on their end. I posted that on their forms, they did not take kindly to that statement though. Instead, they boast how they find their choices in Audio processing superior to their users and ask users to prove to them they have a valid reason against their design changes.

 

[Hypops]

My understanding, Auto EQs are there to set that specific named headphone to the "Flat" reference signal. Who made those EQ profiles, i am not sure, so called audio engineers, or maybe some "professional audiophiles"? I tried a few of them, but they do not have any for the specific headphones i have. They sounded like crap to me.

AutoEQ is just a repository of measurements, reference curves, and EQ profiles from a variety of sources using higher-end measurement rigs (pretty much anything better than EARS). The most well-known contributors are Crinacle, oratory1990, rtings, Headphones.com, Super* Review, and a few others. Oratory1990 used to be the only resource I knew of, then AutoEQ and Crinacle spread the love, and now Squiglink (run by Super* Review) has made those measurements and tools even more accessible.

However, when it comes to headphone measurements (and even more so in-ears), there are huge variations in fit and ear physiology that have dramatic effects on how each of us hear differently from one another. Even the slightest shift in how headphones are fitted to a measurement rig can have massive knock-on effects to frequency response measurements (especially in the treble region).

AutoEQ profiles can be a good place to start, but you need to tailor them to your own ears and preferences to make them worthwhile.

 

[zilax002]

I still have a couple of Fiio EK17 Alpen 2 DACs, those i used for years, but the dial control on them, gets sloppy and fails after a time.

I have an Alpen 2 as well that's still going strong. But the form factor, weight and PEQ of the 5K is just such a game-changer.

AutoEQ takes measurements from the internet (including databases like Oratory1990 and Crinacle, for example) and then uses an algorithm to produce EQ profiles for each headphone/IEM to hit a target (which I assume, but am not positive, is just one of the Harman variants). It's a cool project but if you look at Oratory1990's actual EQ profiles I think the results tend to be much better. They're actually doing it by ear and thinking about the changes being made, not just blindly trying to hit a curve like the algorithm is.

My experience with AutoEQ is it can sound good if it's EQing a headphone that doesn't need very much adjustment to hit the intended curve. But the more changes being made, the more "off" it tends to sound, in my experience.