The Pono Player Impressions Thread
Feb 2, 2017 at 9:15 PM Post #1,576 of 1,969
Good to hear the Surf Cable are durable, they are just more delicate than I am used to. They sound great though and looking forward to some long usage. Thanks guys for all the help. These Ponos are great little DAP's
 
Feb 2, 2017 at 11:42 PM Post #1,578 of 1,969
I've got one of the Trinitys, think I may get a second as back up.
 
Feb 2, 2017 at 11:47 PM Post #1,579 of 1,969
Don't wait around. Trinity has discontinued mmcx cables. Non of their current IEMs use them. Think the clearance price was about $30. Not going to beat that. Someone said they weren't listed on the revised Trinity website. They had to call to get them.
Good luck.
 
Feb 3, 2017 at 10:37 AM Post #1,582 of 1,969
This thing has changed the way I listen to music. I used to hop around from track to track for maybe 30 minutes at a time. I put this on shuffle and 3 hours are gone before I know it. This is crazy! I look forward to putting my headphones on. What a product!

Welcome to the  Reference Level DAP Club :)
 
Feb 6, 2017 at 11:16 AM Post #1,583 of 1,969
  I recently bought an Aune M1s.  I bought it because (at least by the specs) it had simliar features as the Pono (which I have).  Dual sabre chips in it, balanced output, supposedly very basic UI for sound reasons, no bluetooth or wifi or any doodads like that.  The Aune M1s has been getting some very high praise with comments such as 'sounds better than DAPs costing much more'.  I can say, without a doubt, that the Pono sounds much much better.  The Pono sounds alive and organic.  The M1s does not.  It's mostly in the bass regions where the Pono sounds...real.  Forget about the balanced mode, Pono kicks the Aune's ass.
Another thing, Pono's line out sounds amazing in comparison as well.  Real life, like vinyl.  The Aune sounds compressed and mechanical (not like "real" music).  Just goes to show you that even with good parts and innovation, it's hard to compete with what Ayre came up with with the Pono.


Good to hear. I truly believe that Ayre's philosophy of listening is what makes them special. Yes they can wrangle some good parts together, but if you don't know how to put them together to taste right they don't perform as expected.
 
Ayre gives the engineers time to take every build of the circuit home and listen for a couple of days before determining it's fate. They let the music's emotional power over them decide, not an oscilloscope or spec sheet or trend. They avoid short ABX tests whenever possible, thus giving the ear-brain more time to file it's review and the engineer can go forward with the build.
 
Ayre is smart enough to know that what you just heard is gone, and what you will hear will continue to change as the day wears on, as you move around your life and your day. So they make sure their circuits sound good all the time, day and night, for whatever mood you may be in.  
 
This philosophy of audio circuit building is what really makes Ayre's Pono work so special. They managed to build a nearly perfect mobile signal chain for $100 or so because they, at it's most basic, just listened better than everyone else.
 
Feb 6, 2017 at 1:51 PM Post #1,584 of 1,969
I tried the Aune M1s with a Pioneer XPA 700 amp. It was a good combination and really brought out better bass detail in the M1s that I thought was lacking in the DAP by itself. The Pioneer is a balanced amp and it noticeably improved my enjoyment of that DAP. That being said, I A/B that combo with the Pono balanced and the Pono won out still, easily. Pono has a very adequate amp section and can just drive bigger headphones by itself in balanced mode. Amping it with a small headphone amp doesn't improve it because the amp in the Pono is already so efficient. I think that a lot of DAPs suffer from inadequate amp sections in comparison.
 
Feb 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM Post #1,585 of 1,969
Quote:
I tried the Aune M1s with a Pioneer XPA 700 amp. It was a good combination and really brought out better bass detail in the M1s that I thought was lacking in the DAP by itself. The Pioneer is a balanced amp and it noticeably improved my enjoyment of that DAP. That being said, I A/B that combo with the Pono balanced and the Pono won out still, easily. Pono has a very adequate amp section and can just drive bigger headphones by itself in balanced mode. Amping it with a small headphone amp doesn't improve it because the amp in the Pono is already so efficient. I think that a lot of DAPs suffer from inadequate amp sections in comparison.


Yep. The DAC in Pono is common (good but common), but after the DAC it's all custom, and all good.
 
  1. Proprietary Ayre filters after the DAC (less smear).
  2. True balanced signal all the way through the circuit.
  3. Separate digital and analog boards. 
  4. Discreet power for each board (digital runs off + only).
  5. Dedicated regulators (not shared) for audio master clock, DAC, and rest of digital circuitry. No integrated circuit with audio mingling with everything else. 
  6. No radios or sensors in the device adding interferences and distortions.  
  7. Flexible outputs (balanced, dual unbalanced, line)
 
The end result is pristine sound for almost anything thrown at it, running almost any speakers.
 
I have wanted a few more clicks of volume occasionally (when unbalanced) but I like to really crank it and i've heard that when balanced it has plenty of volume.
 
PonoPlayer is great. I don't know if anyone will ever top it at that price. It's simply an artisan crafted device, a single purpose gadget unlike any other I can think of (in consumer space).
 
Who else could restrain themselves from adding all the side features and compromising the audio signal, and still bring it to market at <$500?  
 
Feb 9, 2017 at 12:43 PM Post #1,586 of 1,969
Got a Cardas A8 iem at CanJam this past weekend, they're discontinuing it for a newer, slightly changed newer version at good discount. What made it exciting is that they have balanced Pono cables, that they didn't have at the show, but they sent them, just got them. Can't wait to connect them up and pay them through The Pono.
 
Feb 9, 2017 at 12:55 PM Post #1,587 of 1,969
Does anyone know if the impedance halves in balanced mode like it does in some of the other daps out there.  I love the Pono but at times I think the impedance is mucking up the bass a little with my ciems.  Thanks for any information.
 
Feb 9, 2017 at 3:14 PM Post #1,588 of 1,969
Does anyone know if the impedance halves in balanced mode like it does in some of the other daps out there.  I love the Pono but at times I think the impedance is mucking up the bass a little with my ciems.  Thanks for any information.


It actually doubles per Stereophiles testing:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pono-ponoplayer-portable-music-player-balanced-mode#B4fyizJA1wFRrIYe.97
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 10:29 PM Post #1,589 of 1,969
The more I listen to my PONO, the more I feel that the PONO has become a victim of its own fanfare and eccentricity.  This comes from someone who owns a PONO and has it hooked up to HD700s (and now has a balanced cable).  The PONO was marketed as a means of "bringing 'music' back to the people" and was supposed to be a player that was part of a "greater musical ecosystem."  The only problem is is that an ecosystem - in this case digital representations of master and various-gen tapes (both analog and digital in their own rights) - is only as good as what's placed in it, and it's only as accepted as those that roam through it, and only as used to its fullest as much as those can exploit from it with the resources / knowledge available to those within the ecosystem.  I've found the PONO to be a sort of musical ecosystem that's only as enjoyable as everything it is given to work with.  The way that it is built, and how it's put together, it demands more than just "ooh, a 24/192 track!" or "ooh, high-end headphones!" or even "ooh high dynamic range music that doesn't brickwall / have compression!".  To me, it's like a genesis.  Everything that it comes with is punching far above its price-point in terms of performance, but to make it shine, you (the end-user) must be its deity of sorts and give it everything it needs to be musical.
 
In a world where the vast majority of portable players are iPods and other MP3 oriented players, where the basis is already compressed and bitrate-downsampled, people have become keen to the idea that boomy and bassy equate to better, even at the expense of a fullness of sound, and at the expense of being able to build a more musically "open" ecosystem.  It sounds like something, so it must be what was made in the first place.  The MP3-ization process almost makes me wish there was a program that could show the ghost in all MP3s as a person goes from 24/192, or 16/44.1 down to various MP3 compressions, and show what is lost.  Yet other compromises are made to make it tolerable.  I loved the fact that the PONO was no-BS like this; give it a crappy dynamic range file, and it'll happily send up to your ears (in a somewhat spiteful way), a craptacular audio experience; yet with well-mastered files, gave it the potential to sing and be a reference-class DAP (yes, I will call it that, it's that good).
 
But I think that the biggest downfall of the PONO in terms of it not being a runaway success is that it essentially requires an overhaul of how one listens / sets up his or her headphones.  iPods and the sort (ie: we're excluding Fiio, AK, etc.,) are plug-and-play, and while many of us on Head-Fi (and other audio appreciation forums) may be OK with overhauling our setups so we can enjoy the optimum listening experience, the PONO's flaunting and almost outright "you must balance your headphones to make me musical" advertising was a bit of a turnoff.  It's a great idea, and definitely does work in improving audio quality, but how many lay people are realistically going to swap their apple buds for something in the vein of a Shure SE535 or SE846, recable them for balanced mode (at considerable added expense), and then figure out a slightly arcane Android 2.3 OS to enable balanced mode?  Yes, the steak is amazing, but there's no sizzle of "instant gratification" that most people desire.  
 
(And don't even get me started on things such as bluetooth and internet and streaming... which to me are frivolous and part of why I love my PONO, and why many people may hate it...)
 
That being said, the PONO is phenomenal if you're willing to set it up and digitally feed it right.  The problem is taking the time and financial means to do so before you can fully exploit the most out of this amazing musical ecosystem that sits nicely on your desk, and terribly in your pocket.

Jason
 
Feb 15, 2017 at 3:11 PM Post #1,590 of 1,969
  The more I listen to my PONO, the more I feel that the PONO has become a victim of its own fanfare and eccentricity.  This comes from someone who owns a PONO and has it hooked up to HD700s (and now has a balanced cable).  The PONO was marketed as a means of "bringing 'music' back to the people" and was supposed to be a player that was part of a "greater musical ecosystem."  The only problem is is that an ecosystem - in this case digital representations of master and various-gen tapes (both analog and digital in their own rights) - is only as good as what's placed in it, and it's only as accepted as those that roam through it, and only as used to its fullest as much as those can exploit from it with the resources / knowledge available to those within the ecosystem.  I've found the PONO to be a sort of musical ecosystem that's only as enjoyable as everything it is given to work with.  The way that it is built, and how it's put together, it demands more than just "ooh, a 24/192 track!" or "ooh, high-end headphones!" or even "ooh high dynamic range music that doesn't brickwall / have compression!".  To me, it's like a genesis.  Everything that it comes with is punching far above its price-point in terms of performance, but to make it shine, you (the end-user) must be its deity of sorts and give it everything it needs to be musical.
 
In a world where the vast majority of portable players are iPods and other MP3 oriented players, where the basis is already compressed and bitrate-downsampled, people have become keen to the idea that boomy and bassy equate to better, even at the expense of a fullness of sound, and at the expense of being able to build a more musically "open" ecosystem.  It sounds like something, so it must be what was made in the first place.  The MP3-ization process almost makes me wish there was a program that could show the ghost in all MP3s as a person goes from 24/192, or 16/44.1 down to various MP3 compressions, and show what is lost.  Yet other compromises are made to make it tolerable.  I loved the fact that the PONO was no-BS like this; give it a crappy dynamic range file, and it'll happily send up to your ears (in a somewhat spiteful way), a craptacular audio experience; yet with well-mastered files, gave it the potential to sing and be a reference-class DAP (yes, I will call it that, it's that good).
 
But I think that the biggest downfall of the PONO in terms of it not being a runaway success is that it essentially requires an overhaul of how one listens / sets up his or her headphones.  iPods and the sort (ie: we're excluding Fiio, AK, etc.,) are plug-and-play, and while many of us on Head-Fi (and other audio appreciation forums) may be OK with overhauling our setups so we can enjoy the optimum listening experience, the PONO's flaunting and almost outright "you must balance your headphones to make me musical" advertising was a bit of a turnoff.  It's a great idea, and definitely does work in improving audio quality, but how many lay people are realistically going to swap their apple buds for something in the vein of a Shure SE535 or SE846, recable them for balanced mode (at considerable added expense), and then figure out a slightly arcane Android 2.3 OS to enable balanced mode?  Yes, the steak is amazing, but there's no sizzle of "instant gratification" that most people desire.  
 
(And don't even get me started on things such as bluetooth and internet and streaming... which to me are frivolous and part of why I love my PONO, and why many people may hate it...)
 
That being said, the PONO is phenomenal if you're willing to set it up and digitally feed it right.  The problem is taking the time and financial means to do so before you can fully exploit the most out of this amazing musical ecosystem that sits nicely on your desk, and terribly in your pocket.

Jason

 
 
Great post, I agree with your sentiment. The Pono Player is simply the purest mobile audio source renderer, aka DAP, made, and it's amazing it made it to market and didn't die upon heavy use.
 
Mine is as rugged or more so than anything apple has sold me, since the triangle shape above all else adds to structural integrity. So hopefully the player will live for decades no matter what happens to the business behind it.
 
Curating a person's musical library and musical tastes is not the job of pono, and ending the "loudness wars" is impossible because there are so many causes of it. That part of the marketing was a bit misleading. 
 
Even more so was focusing on lossy file degradation only, and not on the signal chain and audio tech inside the device. 
 

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