The Opamp thread
Jun 17, 2016 at 1:43 AM Post #5,236 of 7,383
more detail please
 
can you perhaps specify which opamps you are comparing, and which is the "louder" ?  you obviously know which one you mean... that makes one of us
tongue.gif

 
Jun 17, 2016 at 11:58 AM Post #5,237 of 7,383
Right... Not sure if it works this way, but can anyone recommend off the top of their head a clear, balanced and energetic OpAmp?
 
Jun 17, 2016 at 2:22 PM Post #5,238 of 7,383
ADA4627-1B or ADA4610
If it sounds unbalanced when you stick it in, it probably just needs an extra film cap across its PSU pins.  You'll need the chips mounted on adapters.
 
Jun 17, 2016 at 8:22 PM Post #5,239 of 7,383
  Right... Not sure if it works this way, but can anyone recommend off the top of their head a clear, balanced and energetic OpAmp?

 
it doesn't quite work that way, but to help you :
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/5175#post_12642543
 
however, that's just my opinion, so you should read the other 349 pages in this thread  (a mere 5238 posts) to give it appropriate context; but the burson v5i is doing it for me in a major way presently
 
as a further comment, (dual) opa627 is a cheap(er) and really good place to start for the buffer position if you want to appreciate a step up from the default supplied on the stx - sounds less marvellous in the i/v slots though
 
Jun 17, 2016 at 10:44 PM Post #5,240 of 7,383
Much less efficient. With the Pulse Infinity, with the v5D and the THX00, I could actually hear out when the Pulse was at -51 but with Sparkos Labs, I had to turn it up to in the low -30s. There still is a lot of control but I had not thought about that type of difference.


After listening to sparkos labs S3601 pair, I put the v5D back in and the difference was not that great. I am not sure why the change is there now.

I have seriously listened enough for any conclusions yet.
 
Jun 18, 2016 at 12:30 AM Post #5,241 of 7,383
   
They arrived today as I bought 2 singles.  I just put them in.  Haven't listened but I can tell you I was shocked by the different efficiency that the Burson Audio SSA v5D I had in the Lycan.  Just put the Purist Audio Design Ultimate System Enhancer CD on for a few hours to break them in.

 
 
Much less efficient. With the Pulse Infinity, with the v5D and the THX00, I could actually hear out when the Pulse was at -51 but with Sparkos Labs, I had to turn it up to in the low -30s. There still is a lot of control but I had not thought about that type of difference.

 
 
After listening to sparkos labs S3601 pair, I put the v5D back in and the difference was not that great. I am not sure why the change is there now.

I have seriously listened enough for any conclusions yet.

 
 
Just to be clear, please entertain this question:  
 
If you were to swap the op-amps back and forth without touching the volume control, which would play more loudly in your headphones - the Burson V5 or the Sparkos?
 
If my interpretation of your earlier posts is correct, I'm thinking your will answer that the Burson V5 is louder - which really surprises me because I experience exactly the opposite with the V5 Duals vs. Sparkos SS3602 in my iBasso PB2.  It's a noticiable difference, true enough, but I measure a higher SPL reading between the headphone ear pads, when using the Sparkos op-amp.
 
Maybe it's just a difference in supply voltage with your amp vs. mine.  The relationship between supply voltage and output power is almost never linear.  In other words, in terms of output power, maybe the Sparkos is a better suited to my amp, where the V5 is better suited to yours.
 
Jun 18, 2016 at 8:48 AM Post #5,242 of 7,383
   
 
 
 
 
 
Just to be clear, please entertain this question:  
 
If you were to swap the op-amps back and forth without touching the volume control, which would play more loudly in your headphones - the Burson V5 or the Sparkos?
 
If my interpretation of your earlier posts is correct, I'm thinking your will answer that the Burson V5 is louder - which really surprises me because I experience exactly the opposite with the V5 Duals vs. Sparkos SS3602 in my iBasso PB2.  It's a noticiable difference, true enough, but I measure a higher SPL reading between the headphone ear pads, when using the Sparkos op-amp.
 
Maybe it's just a difference in supply voltage with your amp vs. mine.  The relationship between supply voltage and output power is almost never linear.  In other words, in terms of output power, maybe the Sparkos is a better suited to my amp, where the V5 is better suited to yours.

 
I am using the Burson Audio Lycan so there may be bias build in for their  v5 discrete opamp.  Originally I thought there was a significant difference but after letting the Sparkos Lab S3601 singles play for roughly 36 hours, when I swapped the v5D back in last night, not changing anything, the difference was not nearly as noticeable.  I would say t he v5D was only slightly louder.  However, what I did notice is the Sparkos Labs seemed to have more treble than the v5D.  I don't know if any of the difference could be attributable to using 2 single S3601 and the 1 dual v5.    
 
Jun 18, 2016 at 12:06 PM Post #5,243 of 7,383
   
I am using the Burson Audio Lycan so there may be bias build in for their  v5 discrete opamp.  Originally I thought there was a significant difference but after letting the Sparkos Lab S3601 singles play for roughly 36 hours, when I swapped the v5D back in last night, not changing anything, the difference was not nearly as noticeable.  I would say t he v5D was only slightly louder.  However, what I did notice is the Sparkos Labs seemed to have more treble than the v5D.  I don't know if any of the difference could be attributable to using 2 single S3601 and the 1 dual v5.    

 
Thanks for your clarification!  I'm perfectly OK with your impressions, as we are not making an apples-to-apples comparison - different gear, not to mention different ears.
 
In the end, as with almost all audio components, prospective buyers really have to make whatever comparisons they are considering - on their own.  There are very few audio products that have acquired a truly majority consensus of positive opinion - as with the Uptone Audio USB Regen, where even though different people hear different things across countless combinations of gear, only a tiny fraction of buyers end up returning it for having made no audible improvement that they can discern - it's something like 1 out of 500 people are disappointed, judging by what I've read, following multiple USB Regen forums.
 
I am, nevertheless, pretty comfortable in saying I believe most people who have even a modest amount of experience rolling op-amps, having spent a lot of time critically analyzing the differences, would find either the Burson V5 series or Sparkos SS360x series discrete op-amps to stand well above any IC-based op-amp. Beyond that solid conviction, I can only say that I personally prefer the Sparkos SS3602 to the Burson V5 Dual, with my gear, my headphones, my tastes.  They stand on the podium together - so I would heartily advise anyone considering them to try both and decide for yourself. Big bucks, I know - but perhaps some other factors (dimensions, heat tolerance, supply voltage maximums, etc.) can guide you if you only want to buy one or the other and be done with it.  
 
The Sparkos is fat but short - too fat for some applications. The Burson is skinny but tall - too tall for some applications. Which one is a better fit inside your component? The Sparkos can handle higher supply voltages, maxing out at +/- 22V vs. +/- 17V for the latest rendition of the V5.  (Higher supply voltages translate to higher output voltages delivered to your headphones - assuming you have an amp that can push the max. 22V Sparkos higher than the max. 17V Burson.) The Sparkos can handle higher operating temperatures - its PCBs are not trapped inside a foam-filled plastic case that can overheat and melt if insufficiently cooled.
 
Back to a discussion of the audible differences - again with the disclaimer that my opinion may not translate across to anyone else's gear and tastes...  When using this chain:  
 
  1. iPod Touch 6, streaming 44/16 from Tidal Hifi >
  2. Oppo HA-2's ES9018K2M DAC Line Out >
  3. A Cardas HPI interconnect cable >
  4. iBasso PB2 portable amp, with dummy buffers instead of real op-amps in the output gain stage, such that I am only hearing the Burson or the Sparkos duals in the Input voltage gain stage > 
  5. Balanced output with Toxic Cables Silver Poison >
  6. Into either my 300-Ohm Senn HD800 or my recently acquired (I'm late to the party) 600-Ohm Beyer DT880 (modified by BTG-Audio to replace the single-ended cable with mini-XLR jacks for balanced operation with an Audeze-style balanced Silver Poison cable).
 
Having qualified the conditions in which I made my comparisons, let me add that I used a cheap SPL meter, made by Scosche, placed between the ear pads with the headphones sitting on a table, to volume match the Burson and Sparkos duals while playing a white noise file, putting marks on transparent tape that I had placed around the volume control of the amp- so that I could toggle the volume control correctly as I swapped the op-amps back and forth while playing some favorite test tracks. Even if the inexpensive Scosche meter is inaccurate when it reads 85dB, I adjusted the volume to achieve the same reading with both sets of op-amps, while playing white noise, so the actual SPL level was perfectly matched, even if not precisely at 85dB.
 
All that said, I prefer the sound of the Sparkos for these reasons:  The treble has less of a "glow" that I believe is not really part of the recording. I don't think the Sparkos treble is so much rolled-off relative to the Burson treble, as it is just cleaner.  I hear even the faintest of low-energy treble details better surrounded by blackness with the Sparkos, where the V5 has an ever so slightly "splashy" sound.  Mind you, I find these distinctions impossible to make with less resolving headphones like my LCD-2 rev.1, with which I would only conclude that the V5 has more treble energy, but I am making the allegation that the V5's treble energy is not entirely genuine. Toss in an NOS DAC, like my Metrum Octave MkII and you might as well have replaced the HD800 or DT880 with the LCD-2 rev.1.  The NOS DAC has nowhere near the resolution of the diminutive Oppo HA-2's ES9018K2M implementation.  Again, this points to how the chain that surrounds these op-amps can mask certain aspects of their intrinsic traits.
 
I liken the ever so slightly "splashy" treble of the Burson V5 (in my chain) to how uncontrolled, sloppy bass frequencies can be misinterpreted as having higher energy than a faster, more tightly controlled bass. The wooliness caused by longer decays create a perception of higher energy, summed across time, even though instantaneous measurements might prove them to have the same energy. For some systems and some tastes, this might actually produce a preferred sound, just as the Burson V5 treble might be preferred by some people, in their environments, vs.the, dare I say it, more "genuine" treble of the Sparkos duals. I mean, let this sink in:  I prefer the V5 treble when using any headphone I have other than the DT880 or HD800.  You could say I want to darken my too-bright HD800 and DT880 by using the Sparkos op-amps or you could say I want to brighten my too-dark LCD-2 rev.1 and I suspect my HD600 or HD650, when I still had them, by using the Burson V5 op-amps. And that's without changing anything else in the chain.  Underneath it all, I believe the Sparkos is the more accurate and transparent op-amp.  Whether or not that works for you will be determined by a lot of other variables.
 
Varying with the resulting output power of the op-amps, depending on the supply voltage they receive, and the efficiency of your choice of headphones, if you are running really inefficient headphones, like the Beyer DT880 600-Ohm, and your amp when set to its highest gain, still leaves the headphone hungry for more power, I can attest that there is significant difference in dynamics enjoyed with the op-amp that can produce a higher volume.  Which for me, in my gear, as evidenced by the volume matching I did, lies with the Sparkos SS3602.  Bass drum kicks especially stand out with the Sparkos SS3602 driving my DT880 600, but less so with the HD800.  For the LCD-2 rev. 1, which can scale to more power all the way up to 13 Watts rms per channel into 50 Ohms (per Audeze support), the difference between the Sparkos and V5 is also noticeable, but for the DT880 600, where its inefficiency seems to be more perfectly suited to the peak output possibilities of my balanced output iBasso PB2 with either the Burson or the Sparkos duals, the Sparkos wins, doing a fantastic job of controlling the 600-Ohm headphone with greater authority. The bass texture is spectacular - better control than with the HD800 bass (not to mention having more bass energy than the HD800, but that's a feature of the DT880 whether or not the bass is tightly controlled.)  
 
And again, for my gear and my ears, I find that the Sparkos puts me closer to the stage, where the Burson V5 pushes the whole soundstage farther away, more laid back, as if I'm seated in the 10th row.  Having owned the Burson Soloist, I can say that this kind of "house" trait for Burson.  I don't understand how it happens or how they could design for it, but if you want to feel closer to the voices and instruments, the Sparkos has an edge (as I've experienced it with my gear.)  
 
Lastly, I'll throw in my conviction that the design and quality control of the Sparkos op-amps is in another league relative to the Burson V5. They've had to ship me four V5 duals to end up with two that were not defective on arrival. Sparkos doesn't have much representation in these forums or others, but I do know this:  I have not had to return the pair of SS3602 duals I purchased. - they run cool and have already logged easily 400 hours without any hiccups.    
 

 
Mike
 
Jun 18, 2016 at 10:42 PM Post #5,244 of 7,383
so, do these look like they will change the world ?
 
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nura/nura-headphones-that-learn-and-adapt-to-your-uniqu
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 12:35 AM Post #5,246 of 7,383
It seems as if the calibration only adjusts frequency response.  
 
This paragraph is interesting:
 
Nura headphones connect to the lightning/usb port of your smartphone. You press go, and they sweep through a bunch of tones for about 30 seconds. At the same time, they listen to the sounds your ear is making. By processing these signals it works out how well specific frequencies of sound got through to your brain. Once they know this, they sonically mould to match your ears perfectly and provide rich, balanced sound for you.

 
Do these headphones have an internal DAC/amp?   (I suspect they do.)
 
Can they only be used with iOS and Android devices?   (It seems so.)
 
The only way they can calibrate the FR to a given listener is to perform the calibration using the same DAC/amp that will be used when later playing music. They're pulling the calibration tones out of an app on your mobile device - digitally - not as analog line out from a file played through your DAC and amp of choice.  So, these things appear to leave you stuck with using their built-in DAC and amp.
 
But if it sounds good, fine.  
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 12:33 AM Post #5,248 of 7,383
k701smile.gif

That's a good one.
 
Jun 24, 2016 at 11:22 PM Post #5,249 of 7,383
*facepalm*
Note to myself..
DO CHECK BEFORE SWAPPING OPAMP OUT; god knows what will happen to circuitry when you put the opamp on reverse.
 
I think I f-ed up tubes on my little bear B3.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 12:01 AM Post #5,250 of 7,383
  *facepalm*
Note to myself..
DO CHECK BEFORE SWAPPING OPAMP OUT; god knows what will happen to circuitry when you put the opamp on reverse.
 
I think I f-ed up tubes on my little bear B3.

 
burson's site has this to say :
 

Installation Steps

1. Make sure you have the right SS Op-Amp
– V5-OPA-D = dual Version Op-Amp = suitable to replace dual version chip opamps
– V5-OPA-S = single Version Op-Amp – suitable to replace single version chip opamps
2. Plug it in the right direction
Align the half moon marking on the PCB or IC socket to the half moon cut out on the SS Op-Amp enclosure (refer to photo below)
3. Register the SS Op-Amp for a life-time of warranty
Only by completing this simple registration via this link (http://www.bursonaudio.com/warranty-diy/), will your SS Op-Amps be covered for life.
 
Please note that not following the first 2 steps above will certainly destroy the SS Op-amp, such cases will not be covered by our warranty.
 

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