[up late]

ok...

pm sent

 

[nordkapp]

So today I finally got a pair of Z1R. Been reading this thread for months and have been very excited to listen to them. I'm coming from a pair of B&W P9 signature headphones which I have liked a lot. Will write more when I have had the chance to listen to them for a while

Better yet, post your thoughts here too.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/sony-z1r-listening-impressions-only.853330/

 

[gbx2006]

I have spent years listening to that type of music, and I have to say that in general the recordings are poor enough that trying to make them sound good might be a tough task. I guess it depends on what aspects of such recordings really draw you in. If you want to hear all the crisp edges of the instruments in as much clarity as possible I would think there are better choices out there. If you want to make the music more listenable the Z1R is a great choice, but there are also less expensive options. I will tell you I really like the Onkyo H900M, they are rather very good, affordable, well made and sport a nice 50mm driver so you also get the benefit of air volume movement which I do like for energetic music. The NightOwl by Audioquest is a headphone I am enjoying reading about.

Anyway, the Z1R depending on your preferences certainly could be quite good for your musical choices. I also take it you want to stay with closed headphones? By the way, that is a very nice system. I heard a Yggy/Rag LCD 3 rig at a local meet and it was very nice indeed.

Making the music sound more listenable with better imaging and soundstage is my main goal. I don't really need closed cans so I'm open to any suggestions really. I really like the Schiit stack as well. I had to sell pretty much everything I own to afford it, but some things in life are worth the sacrifice I guess.

I would say that type of music along with Hip Hop and RnB, are the genre's these headphones are best suited to. Essentially, any kind of modern music that relies on a good amount of bass impact and texture, whilst retaining a comparatively wide sound stage and excellent imaging. As mentioned much earlier in the thread, including multiple in-depth comparisons, I own the HD800, HD800S, T1.1's, now the LCD-3's, and finally also the MDR-Z1R's too, and I actually find the Z1R's the best balanced for the majority of the music I listen to.

Im glad to hear this. This is exactly what I hoping to hear people say regarding these headphones. I also find it interesting the different headphone measurements. Not sure what to make of it at this time though. I kinda wish interfidelity would test another pair of z1r's though.

I listen to mostly rock and pop and Z1R are perfect for this. If you can't afford them then Audioquest Nighthawk/Nightowl is another recommendation. The problem with many other headphones is they are too bright and analytical already and older pop/rock recordings make it too harsh sounding. That is not to say the Z1R is bad for "audiophile" music, I think they sound great on that genre as well.

If you want to also take it to another level of musicality then get rid of the schitt crap and buy a DSD DAC. I used Roon to upsample to DSD128 and a $500 Teac UD-501 and it sounds awesome.

Bright and analytical is what I'm trying to avoid so it sounds like the Z1r is more what I'm looking for. I'm not sure if I agree with your statement about the Schiit stack though. This setup is one of the best I've heard and I've owned a few different dacs over the years in the $500-$1000 price range, and none of them come close to yggy. I've never tried the Teac though.

I dig them with Elton John, Supertramp, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, ZZTop, Bob Dylan, Angus and Julia Stone, Eminem, The Beatles...... All of them really shine with the Z1r and make good use of it's bass capability.

You listen to a lot of the same music that I do so your post is very reassuring to me. I just might have to order me a pair of z1r's sometime in the near future.

 

[nordkapp]

@gbx2006
Innerfidelity is testing another pair-the pair from Headfi. Hopefully results soon. Stay tuned.....

 

[Sonic Defender]

@gbx2006
Innerfidelity is testing another pair-the pair from Headfi. Hopefully results soon. Stay tuned.....

I will go out on a limb here and predict the test very close to the original set Tyll tested, which is the result we should expect if the headphones are not sonically different.

 

[nordkapp]

I will go out on a limb here and predict the test very close to the original set Tyll tested, which is the result we should expect if the headphones are not sonically different.

Yup. Totally agree. Get ready for more fireworks.....

 

[Naim.F.C]

leaving your subjective impressions aside and looking at the comparative frequency response chart, the Z1R has the most boosted bass, recessed midrange and prominent spikes at 2k and between 3k and 4k and then at 10k. the hd800 has the notorious 6k spike, but it's apparent that the z1r has the most uneven frequency response out of those four totl cans. isn't that why tyll was so critical of it or am I missing something?

but the z1r has a greater midrange depression in its frequency response relative to those two headphones. the utopia and lcd-4 both have flatter frequency responses overall.

and for the record, while I respect tyll's opinion that doesn't mean that i always agree with it.

would you mind enlightening me?

More midrange depression compared to the other two headphones sure, but it could also be argued that the other two headphones have much greater top end emphasis and boosting. The Utopia in particular also has an upper mid bump. I think the point I'm trying to make is, there isn't really an ideal here. The way you're comparing the MDR-Z1R to the other headphones, is as if you are implying the other headphones have the balance right, and that it is the MDR-Z1R that is imbalanced or improper, and I disagree with that implication or notion.

My personal subjective belief is that for too long, audiophiles and journalists have been presenting an inaccurate account of what "neutral" or "balanced" actually is. I believe manufacturers were making their headphones more articulate and detail orientated with headphones like the AKG K701, T1, HD800, Grados etc, to promote the idea that the revealing nature of such sound signatures were the pinnacle of accuracy, and justified the high price tags. Personally I think these headphones weren't actually neutral, accurate or necessarily ideally balanced, but instead, detail orientated and verging on the colder side, lacking tonal accuracy, and the emotive and atmospheric properties present in, for example, high end speaker set ups. In that respect, I actually feel like headphones such as the MDR-Z1R, do a better job of replicating the authenticity of live performances or recordings, and are ironically in many ways better balanced, despite having somewhat of a bass emphasis.

We need to get rid of the notion that headphones with treble or detail emphasis are automatically more accurate or balanced, as well as the belief that a perfectly flat response curve is also somehow indicative of an ideal sonic balance. It isn't.

Ironically, the estimated Harmon Kardon target response curve does also have a recessed midrange, along with a bump in bass, and a tremendous bump in the upper mids and highs. I believe they're working on a specific headphone variant.

Here's Tyll's headphone estimated version.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Yup. Totally agree. Get ready for more fireworks.....

Well it is Canada Day here tomorrow and for those in the US the 4th of July soon so it is fireworks season anyway, so why not, bring it on!

 

[Currawong]

I am really surprised not many people have commented on this post. This is the most astute thing I have read about this entire debate, written by an expert, and 100% explains why many of these measurements need to be SERIOUSLY questioned.

Something worth noting is that when a bunch of people say that their measurements correlate, you have to take into account that amateur measurements rigs are calibrated against Tyll's, or someone else's system. As I understand it, many of them will have been calibrated against his measurements, so if that is the case, of course they'll all show the same 10k peak as his does.

That being said, I think the whole drama has brought out a lot of good discussion and Tyll's response was good and brought up more good points.

 

[Sp12er3]

Send me a PM if you are interested in the trade. Even trade, I'll pay the shipping costs. Serious traders only.

That's the best comment I've seen on the whole debacle..
And y'know what? A very similar (pref M50x) comment was made in Elear thread not too long ago and was dismissed almost like a troll (dismissed by a couple of people then ignored, bcoz obiously no IF known experience and expertise)...
Now i think the same thing would happen if it's on any TOTL headphone, so it's just clear how attention grabbing such comment is and Tyll should know it.

 

[MacedonianHero]

but the z1r has a greater midrange depression in its frequency response relative to those two headphones. the utopia and lcd-4 both have flatter frequency responses overall.

and for the record, while I respect tyll's opinion that doesn't mean that i always agree with it.



would you mind enlightening me?

Guess which measurements you go with . Sonically the TH-900s and PS1000 are significantly more "U" shaped.

The LCD-XC 2016 and Ether Flow C and a more flat. But I definitely put the Z1Rs here as three of my top choices for closed headphones.

 

[nordkapp]

Does Sony release their own measurements? If Tyll and Jude both come back with the same original findings, we may you never know the truth....

 

[rnros]

Does Sony release their own measurements? If Tyll and Jude both come back with the same original findings, we may you never know the truth....

The truth is the Z1R is a great headphone. Of course, IMHO/YMMV, always. Plain and simple for me.

BTW, InnerFidelity has the MrSpeakers AEON review published:
"The Aeon is going to knock its big brothers Ether C and Ether C Flow of to take the top spot on the Wall of Fame as outstanding over-ear, sealed headphone."

Nah. It does not surpass the Z1R. I'm a fan of the AEON but it does not rise above the Sony Z1R. Extracted from my comments in this thread on June7:
"Moving on to wishing more could afford the Z1R, do not miss the AEON. I've had the Z1R for ~7 months, the AEONs for a week, now approaching 120 hrs burn. Yes, the Z1R is a notch above, a notch, not a different class or league. The Sony design team deserve respect and applause for the Z1R project, as does Sony Corp. for bringing it to market. No doubt, it will remain a reference point. And then there is Dan Clark at MrSpeakers. A $799 AEON that can be placed side-by-side and not suffer by comparison? There are more similarities than differences. Note: this is with a good DAC and desktop amp. AEON does require a little more power.
To be sure, IMO, the Z1R is superior for soundstage projection, bass, small measure of resolution, and perhaps, tonal balance. The AEON immediately showed a little more energy in the upper mids than the norm would support, something like a performance space that is a little too bright, not awful, just a small amount. Additionally, early in the burn, there was a small amount of glare in the same region, again, just a small amount. At 120 hrs, that small touch of glare is gone, and the upper mid emphasis is reduced."

This comment from Tyll's review of the Z1R summarizes his opposite reaction/experience in comparing these two headphones:
"When switching back and forth between it and the Mr. Speakers Aeon and Ether C Flow, and Sonoma e-stat to compare tonal balance I was regularly struck with how the others provided a much better sense of an integrated whole; the Sony in comparison was disjointed and incoherent."

Of course, good to see that I am hearing what he hears with the AEON, or at least some measure of what he hears. (There's that word again... Measure.)
If you read the AEON review, you will see it took 3 or 4 sets of AEON before he published the final review. With the LCD4 and Utopia there were subsequent revisions. Issues with the Elear were never revisited.
So, I am still firmly aligned with the Z1R fans. Exceptional headphone.

 

[Whitigir]

What happen to M50X then ? I love Z1R, but I couldn't keep it due to the large housings....I need to get me a pair of m50X, probably limited edition when I am at it

 

[Imperfectionist]

What happen to M50X then ? I love Z1R, but I couldn't keep it due to the large housings....I need to get me a pair of m50X, probably limited edition when I am at it

I have a pair to exchange for your sr009. Lol