[canali]

Not necessarily. I would agree on some points if the expensive flagships actually brought more of the music to your ears. But it isn't necessarily the case IMO.

$2999 in Canada, right next door to the USA.

i'm in canada...sure as hell didn't pay that price for mine
(bought privately)...brand new, fully sealed, shipped from malaysia..even
with $200 taxes slapped on by canada customs my total price came
to Cdn $2k (US$1512)

even a retailer in Toronto was selling them new (her ebay store)
for Cdn$2400 or so.

 

[Maelob]

As far I know, there are not many closed phones above 1k- what are the recommendations for a great comfortable TOTL closed headphone? Any comparisons with the C-flow?

 

[Makiah S]

As far I know, there are not many closed phones above 1k- what are the recommendations for a great comfortable TOTL closed headphone? Any comparisons with the C-flow?

I'll do you one better, what I want to know is how does the MDR Z1R compare to the Audio Technica L3000? The MDR Z1R seems to have the same polarizing and oddly shifting impressions that I've read about the L3000, being a BIG EXPENSIVE bassy heavy and some what flawed flag ship... the people who have it seem to love it for what it is... which is fine... but for some one who's had the pleasure of hearing both how do the two compare?

 

[taktik]

As far I know, there are not many closed phones above 1k- what are the recommendations for a great comfortable TOTL closed headphone? Any comparisons with the C-flow?

If you're not a basshead, buy a used Ether C 1.1 in the Sale Forum, remove the stock pads which cause resonances and replace them by a pair of ZMF Ori pads. You will have marvelous, comfortable, precise, dynamic and neutral headphones for less than 1k$. My 2 cents... :-;

 

[daddyo1973]

I'm not talking about Sony testing the headphone on different rigs, I'm talking about each copy being tested on Sony's measurement rig before it ships. Include a sheet that shows the response curve compared to the gold standard prototype measurement. Owners should have a factory measurement that they can compare to other measurements taken by members of the community.

Now thats not a bad idea! I think it was the higher end Dynavector phono cartridges that I used to own that had a frequency response graph signed or stamped by quality control come in the box with the cartridge.

 

[stenog]

I'll do you one better, what I want to know is how does the MDR Z1R compare to the Audio Technica L3000? The MDR Z1R seems to have the same polarizing and oddly shifting impressions that I've read about the L3000, being a BIG EXPENSIVE bassy heavy and some what flawed flag ship... the people who have it seem to love it for what it is... which is fine... but for some one who's had the pleasure of hearing both how do the two compare?

Maybe take a look at the Aeon and the new Pioneer closed headphone, they both seems to be neutral. Whether they have flaws I don't know, personally I don't think the Z1R has any flaws...

 

[MacedonianHero]

The Fostex TH900 originally started at a similar price. It's now about half that. Nobody would pay the original asking price now and nobody would say the TH900 is worth $2200 or ever was. But it sometimes appears that if you want to be an early adopter, you have to pay full price. There will be an initial demand out of curiosity, and those wanting to be first on the block. Then again, if you audition and like that certain sound and it costs a certain amount, you'll go for it. If you're patient you can usually get it for less later, especially if it had high market place expectations but it stiffed. With the Z1R it seems people love it or dislike it....regardless of what they paid.

I paid $1900 Cdn for the TH-900, ended up regretting that purchase. They barely isolated like closed headphones and the zingy treble really wore on me over the months. With the Z1R, I'm still very happy with that purchase! To me, they are my favourite TOTL closed-back pair of headphones (to date that is and this is libel to change pending future releases).

 

[up late]

Can't agree on "distortion and lack of clarity". My initial impression with the Z1R was of a certain lack of resolution, call it clarity, probably due to the darker signature, a bit of a veil. With time I noticed that they are extremely revealing, lacking nothing in clarity. Often I noticed tiny details with the 800S and 800 (which are very, very resolving) and amazingly, they were still there with the Z1R. Even better, they're there even at low volumes. So my ears don't agree on that one, although in an immediate switch A:B with Z1R:800, the sense of extra grain/sharpness/detail is immediate, but mostly a perception caused by the extra brightness of the 800.

Soundstage, yes, of course the Z1R can't compare. But while we can compare the previous aspects, there's no point in comparing air. In Z1R's defense, I think it is brilliant in this aspect, for a closed can, but yeah, total loss here compared to good open models. Despite the smaller soundstage, the Z1R have excellent separation and positioning tho.

Regarding the bass, that's a trickier area. I won't even dare getting into that, so I'll agree. Finally, your view of the bonus for build seems reasonable, I'd say. It does add value, but of course, if one does not enjoy the sound (as you do not) there is no amount of quality build and comfort that will make up for it.

Two small notes on this one: I didn't mention ZMF in particular, but still retain my opinion about some of the "garage-assembled" offerings in the market, when compared to models like the Z1R in Utopia, considering purely materials and build. That said, I have a lot of respect for Zach's products and builds, he's definitely doing a good job, but there will be room for improvement, which is normal in the progress of the company. I find the prices a bit on the high side, but that is understandable due to the [lack of] economies of scale.

And finally, regarding the comment in bold on the Sony, I believe you're thinking of other Sony models. The Z1R is hand-assembled and QC'ed in Tokyo, by what you'd call trained artisans. It's not a "fully automated factory" and there isn't such a huge difference, except of course in the machinery they can use to craft them. Not the same as an assembly line pumping out Beats in China. This might - by the way - one of the reasons why the Z1R is a bit pricier than other models with a higher sales volume/more automation on the assembly line (and cheaper labour markets)

There are many articles/videos about this Z1R assembly and QA process.
I'll edit and post the detailed ones if I find them, for now:



Just enjoy it

it's been a while since I've heard the z1r but I can relate to the comments regarding a (slight) lack of clarity despite it being detailed or resolving

I think that the h800/s is also hand assembled or at least in part. I remember reading somewhere that sennheiser employed females who previously worked as beauticians for the hd800 production line because their hands were smaller than a male's and also dexterous.

As an aside, I think the last several pages should be considered very carefully concerning the type of discussion that head-fi wants to continue to have on this community. Until now, much of the discussion of measurements and related concepts have been side lined to the "Sound Science" sub forum.

I think that approach has generally worked well for the community, to avoid a bunch of discussion regarding looking at graphs and measurements and arguing over the smallest details of the smallest measurements. Is this distortion audible? Does this deviation from a flat frequency response mean the performance is worse? Is a resonance which appears in a frequency response at 100 DB a sure sign this headphone is garbage? Should we be targeting diffuse field or Harman curve, and which headphone which targets which curve is objectively better?

I have found that when audio communities open themselves up to wholesale discussion of measurements, the entire conversation turns to one about graphs. Imagine that every thread about every piece of equipment resembled the conversation happening over the last few pages in this thread. Head-fi would be unrecognizable.

I think discussion of measurements certainly has their place, but I worry about the conversation being dominated, and that in turn driving away contributors who can understand the context of the current state of research regarding what measurements can really tell you about the quality of a headphone - which ultimately isn't as much as people tend to assume.

it is unusual for a discussion about headphone measurements to go on for this long in a thread but this one is exceptional because of jude's involvement. the news of his sota measurement rig and how his z1r measurements differed from tyll's even dominated the home page at one point and is still there. I agree with @Sonic Defender that this too will pass and we'll be back to having burn-in and cable debates soon enough.

I think that you're doing some assuming of your own in the bolded text

@up late no car expert here...but maybe a Lexus?

I like it!

 

[nanaholic]

Thanks for that video! Very cool and impressive assembly process.

I'd also like to point out that Sony's Taiyo factory employs only disabled and handicapped people, giving them a job and skill so they don't feel left out of society and have something to be proud of. This may or may not contribute to the higher manufacturing price but it sure makes me feel warm and fuzzy, rather than knowing that what I save in my wallet is actually from exploiting cheap labour in China or some other developing country.

EDIT: I'm removing my own comment about "varying QC" because that is disrespectful implying that disable and handicapped people is somehow unable to do as well of a job as others. Apologies.

 

[stenog]

I said performance, distortion, lack of clarity, small soundstage, wooly bass. Performance being non frequency balance related or build. In the US the difference is 1699 vs 2299. Ill give you 500 bonus dollars for the build. Then you still have much worse performance for the price. Maybe a more enjoyable sound signature but a worse performance nonetheless.

If I understand you correctly, the Z1R has wooly bass? Could you define that?

I read your review of the B&W P9, could you make a short comparison between the P9 and Z1R ? I have both at the moment and for me they are very different. The bass on the P9 is, even for me, often too much, kind of boomy and often out of control. I have never had that feeling with the Z1R. For me it's perfect. But I do understand that we all hear different and for some/many people the Z1R will come across as bass heavy.

And regarding price. I agree that the Z1R is overpriced, but how many did actually paid full price for these? I didn't.

 

[jscmd2000]

Sounds like something the Japanese would do. They really are a special group of people I admire. Thank you for that info!

 

[rnros]

As far I know, there are not many closed phones above 1k- what are the recommendations for a great comfortable TOTL closed headphone? Any comparisons with the C-flow?

I also recommend that you take a look at the AEON Flow. Especially if you are considering the C Flow. You will find some comparisons between the two in the earlier pages of the AEON thread. I posted a very brief (but enthusiastic) comparison with the Z1R in that thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...netic-headphone.833820/page-124#post-13533618

The fact that I would even think of placing the AEON in a side-by-side with the Z1R says a lot, I have high regard for the Z1R.
No, it is not the equal of the Z1R, but this is $799, and an incredibly fine headphone for a very accessible price. Apparently, MrSpeakers decided to buck the ever escalating price trend and place the successful Flow technology into a lower priced, extremely comfortable, beautifully crafted headphone.
This is a serious market entry that could reverse the current hyperbolic price curve. I have no doubt that it will.

 

[TSAVJason]

If that was the case then he wouldn't be saying things like " I guarantee that Sennheiser wouldn't put out that kind of performance at that price."

That's a pretty strong statement that is a bit more than an opinion - he is stating that some objective performance should be bought at a certain price, yet he has failed to quantify what those objective performance standard should be.

Does any of that matter? I remember so many products in this realm that people screamed loudly about any headphone over $600 saying it was crazy and stupid and here we are crossing over to the $6000.00 price point. My knee jerk is "Who cares!"

 

[nordkapp]

Does any of that matter? I remember so many products in this realm that people screamed loudly about any headphone over $600 saying it was crazy and stupid and here we are crossing over to the $6000.00 price point. My knee jerk is "Who cares!"

Scroll back to post #10714. Question for you. ☺

 

[TSAVJason]

@TSAVJason. Do you sell the MDR Z1R? If so what kind of feedback were you getting from owners before and after Tyll's tear down? Owners only-not guys auditioning. Just curious since you are in the know.

I don't know when Tyll released his findings. I can say that in the last 4 weeks the sales have been steadily climbing. It doesn't appear my customers are affected by Tyll or Jude's reviews. In December during the launch the Sony was flying off the shelf. It then slowed as a result of deal hunters buying from Amazon UK for crazy prices that we couldn't match unless we dealers were willing to simply trade dollars and derive literally ZERO profit. Now it's almost totally back to the launch numbers and not showing any slow down. I have had 1 Sony Z1R with an issue about comfort and I believe Sony is stepping up to take care of that customer. 1 thing I have noticed is that a large portion like over 60% also purchased the Focal Utopia before they purchased the Z1R. Sorry I couldn't offer anything that indicates Tyll had any affect on sales or customer satisfaction.