[cotdt]

get a better DAC. the difference between high-bitrate mp3s and lossless is small, you can tell if you listen carefully but it's really minor. a better DAC makes a far bigger improvement.

 

[JSTpt1022]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif get a better DAC. the difference between high-bitrate mp3s and lossless is small, you can tell if you listen carefully but it's really minor. a better DAC makes a far bigger improvement.

While this MAY be true (a big may in my opinion) the idea of pairing a DA220 with lossy files makes my brain hurt...

 

[cotdt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSTpt1022 /img/forum/go_quote.gif While this MAY be true (a big may in my opinion) the idea of pairing a DA220 with lossy files makes my brain hurt...

and why is that? do a comparison of lossy lame-encoded 128MP3 on DA220 versus lossless on an iPod. the DA220 will still be way better. most people can't tell the difference between 320MP3 versus lossless in a blind test, although some can. i can, but it's pretty minor. even lossless is already quite "lossy" if you think about the limitations of 44.1kHz 16-bit data.

 

[Fidel]

Very interesting thread since I have a very similar speaker setup, but I am using the Harbeth C7s. Source truly makes a huge difference...I am still having trouble finding a DAC that can come close to the sq of my Meridian cdp. Like the others, I would suggest you to rip all your music to FLAC and run music through a high-end DAC. Harbeths are relatively forgiving speakers, but using mp3s really defeats the purpose of high end audio...

 

[JSTpt1022]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif and why is that? do a comparison of lossy lame-encoded 128MP3 on DA220 versus lossless on an iPod. the DA220 will still be way better. most people can't tell the difference between 320MP3 versus lossless in a blind test, although some can. i can, but it's pretty minor. even lossless is already quite "lossy" if you think about the limitations of 44.1kHz 16-bit data.

I think you misunderstand what I had an issue with. First, for me any positive difference at all is worth it, and I BELIEVE that I can hear the difference on my system, so I go with lossless. The second issue is completely psychological on my part but I just can't comprehend spending that amount of money on something I KNOW to be flawed, whether I can hear it or not. I think your above example is quite valid and good.

 

[CarbonTi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif get a better DAC. the difference between high-bitrate mp3s and lossless is small, you can tell if you listen carefully but it's really minor. a better DAC makes a far bigger improvement.

It's all relative.

I agree with that remark as the starting point is a EMU 0404. Today there's a nice sweet spot in the approx. $1K price range for DACs. That range covers DACs like the Stello 220, Lavry DA10, Benchmark and Apogee. All pretty decent sounding DACs.

DACs beyond this class will have refinements that will highlight that source deficiencies in the playback of lossy files. And in audio, to hit a glass performance ceiling at the $1K mark means something is amiss farther up the chain. Makes no sense to start with lossy source and have that deficit carry through the chain.

 

[Imperfectcircle]

I completely agree that the first thing you need to do is reripp all your music to lossless files instead of MP3. While alot of people say they cannot hear the differance between high bitrate Mp3 and lossless, these people are usually listening to PC speakers or lower end systems. The harbeths are some of the most revealing speakers money can buy and you will definitly be able to hear a clear differance between lossless and lossy. As for where to spend your $2-3k I would definitly put it into a nice DAC your soundcard is definitly the weak link in that system. Im not going to start recomending dacs, im sure if you own Naim and Harbeth equipment you have a pretty good idea of what Dacs to be looking at. As for a sub, unless you have a very large room the HL5's should go sufficeintly low and be punchy enough for ll but the most bass heavy rap and metal. But if thats your main musical taste you probably wouldnt have spent all that money on a speaker like Harbeth in the first place

Good luck with the system, Harbeth makes some really nice sounding stuff as does Naim.

 

[Jay B]

I just upgraded to a DAC from a sound card, and I must say there was a big difference. I wouldn't build a system like that without a good DAC.

The Stello DA100 is highly regarded around here, but I would probably look to a full-size considering the setup your building. Stello makes the DA220 full-size, that might be a good option. Around here we look for headphone scale DACs, so our options are a little more limited, and therefore so are most peoples recommendations. But I think there's lots of options in full size, AudiogoN is full of 'em, browse around.

As for lossless vs. lossy files. Check out this thread, most people can't tell the difference. But like it has been said, you're building a top-end system, so generally no compromises is a good idea. I'd try to rip to lossless where possible, but if you can't, you can live without it. I'm an MP3'er myself, I completely understand the convenience and size, it's just unmatched. But I FLAC my top-quality CDs.

 

[Ultraviolet]

I'm a stereo guy on a headphone forum too (Vienna Acoustics Beethoven, REL Storm III, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Anthem AVM-20 etc). I agree with the people recommending FLAC. I'm running a digital out from an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile and just using the Anthem DACs and often I can tell the difference between FLAC and my APS VBR MP3's. The Viennas are fairly warm forgiving speakers too. I'm not going to lie (a.k.a "Audiophile speak") and say that the difference is enormous, but it is there. Just for comparison, I also have a little "cheapo" headphone setup that consists of a Creek OBH-11 and Shure e5c's and I cannot tell the difference between the APS mp3 and FLAC at all on that.

 

[el_matt0]

i agree with the numerous people that have commented on the quality of your recordings themselves. honestly even 256-320 kbps is OK, but its far from fantastic. if your going to be spending so much on gear, it would definitely be something id look into first. it would almost be like spending 3K on high-end headphone gear and then experiencing crap SQ because you dont clean your ears enough or something!!!! i have a mid-high end headphone rig, and i can DEFINITELY tell you that even 256kbps recordings (of which i have too many) sound like crud compared to a flac or even >1000kbps mp3. my 2 cents

 

[choariwap]

dac1 usb ftw!

 

[Wavelength]

Zz,

Even at your MP3 route upgrading your dac would be silly. The rest of your system is great but if you have only half the information then your only going to get half the sound.

Best bet is re-rip all the music onto a firewire drive and make a backup.

As for the comment on biamping... Not a good idea. One of my papers I wrote in College was multiple amplifier based systems. The result was that if you xover between 100Hz and 10khz you need the same amplifier or the differential in sound of the amplifier will kill the synergy of the speakers.

Guys... remember low E on a guitar is 80Hz when using standard tuning. Middle C under middle A on the piano is like 220Hz. I cannot understand some of the speaker designers. I don't think any of them every looked at the scale relative to instruements and vocals.

So do the ripping first then think of the dac and just don't buy one. Go to a dealer and listen to them. No need getting something that isn't your taste or sounds like crap.

Thanks
Gordon

 

[Scrith]

I highly recommend a Benchmark DAC1 USB.

Yes, there are endless debates here about how some other DAC you've never heard of outside of Head-Fi MIGHT be 0.01% better. It will be fun to read these while listening to music with your wonderful system.

The bottom line is, it is a great sounding DAC, and every review ever written about it agrees with that statement. If, for some extraordinary reason you do not like it, you can easily and quickly sell it on Audiogon for nearly what you paid for it (something you will NOT be able to do with one of those exotic DACs some people like to recommend), due to their popularity with buyers there.

The DAC1 USB also gives you the wonderful flexibility of using USB input from a computer without any special drivers, or using the digital inputs if you prefer to feed it from some other source. It has a great headphone amp and balanced output as well. You really can't go wrong here.

 

[Chri5peed]

I'm from the 'Change to Lossless, because its free' camp.

 

[drp]

Consider a PCMCIA sound card (hmmm, does Apple support this?) with coax digital out, a good coax digital cable, and pick up a used Resolution Audio Opus 21. Then, use the preamp function of the Opus to drive your amp (power amp, right?). Oh, and you get a good CD transport to boot. Small overall footprint if you need to save space.

My computer rig uses lossless, foobar, and the ASIO4ALL plug-in going to the Opus 21. I then use the Opus' preamp out to an amp and speakers, and the sound quality is just amazing. I use the unattenuated line out (DIN plug) of the Opus to my headphone amp. Really is the best of both worlds in one solution.

One guy's opinion, but I think the Opus 21 one of the best, most musical DACs on the market in its price range and those costing considerably more.

And ditto or reripping to lossless. I actually just use ALAC so I can use the same files with my iMod for portable. Have had no problems with the alac plug-in for foobar, and ripping to lossless with iTunes could not be more simple.

Sans something higher end like the Opus, especially for a speaker rig or senn HD650s, the Benchmark DAC1 gets high marks in my book. This especially true if your speakers are on the warm side. It however did not match as well with my drier sounding Aerial 5Bs. If your speakers are bright(ish) the Apogee Mini-DAC is a better choice and was my fav before the Opus.

Best of luck


Quote:

Originally Posted by ZzBOG /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello, I'm building a nice setup of Harbeth hi-fi speakers & NAIM amplifier. The problem is that my source is my laptop - Macbook PRo with EMU 0404 USB... The huge percentage of music is stored in mp3s. I want to improve the computer source to a possible maximum, to compensate the quality of mp3s. What should I do? Buy a DAC? Another, higher class card (this seems unlikely, though)? Which one? I have about $2-3 thousand to spend on it.