[kool bubba ice]

Sad, but true.. All of a sudden it would be better then sliced bread.
Quote:

That's right, Sonance.  Nothing ever becomes revered until it goes out of production.  I remember the fights over the K-1000 while it was still on the market.  Its status has completely changed in the years since it went out of production.
 
Today, probably the best thing Sennheiser could do for the HD-800 would be to discontinue it.

 

[fdhfdy]

if they will sell and make some profits why they don't?

 

[nikongod]

 
Quote:

if they will sell and make some profits why they don't?

Do you mean the R10?
 
They didnt. Sony took more than 8 years to sell about 1200-1300 pairs of R10. Sony maintains that they were sold at a loss from day 1.
 
A quick glance at serial numbers on the HD800 says Sennheiser has already sold that many, if not more... in only nominally more than a year (the first HD800 were delivered to customers during canjam 2009).

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Wow, yes, I'm surprised too at the resurrection of this thread! I have to concur with the above statement, that two years on, not much has changed. There hasn't been a R10 or Qualia replacement. O.K. guys, bear with me here, as I'm going to bring up the plastic issue again. My thoughts are not aimed at the HD800 specifically but what I notice about plastic in general. It seems that more and more, plastic is taking hold in the manufacturing of "durable goods". Ten years ago it was less so. Durable goods include refrigerators, stoves, and things like washing machines. Now that plastic has invaded these appliances it is no surprise that appliances are breaking down at higher rates than the past. My mother's Maytag lasted 20 years; not so her new  Sub-Zero. Add to this computer chips that expand, contract, oxidize, and have a 3 year shelf life, it seems we are now in the age of throw-away durable goods; headphones included. Depressing.

Plastic can last a long long time. Case in point, the Stax Lambdas. They have lasted over thirty years in some cases and sound just the same as they did in 1979. At the rate of improvement in efficiency in so much technology these days, I am satisfied. Those chips are certainly more durable and long lasting then many vacuum tubes I would think. I think some headphones today, especially the IEM market have made enormous breakthroughs in audio, so much so that I would honestly rather have a JH-3A system then an R-10 at the same price.

 

[davidhunternyc]

^^^ Well, I have been thinking about this. It is such an amorphous term; plastic. This is like talking about headphones made from "metal". Well, what kind of metal? Titanium or quick silver? There is a difference. So we are bound to find examples of what I say is true and what you say is true too. But back to the point of the R10, namely a hypothetical successor to the R10. I don't think anyone here would be happy if the next R10 were made from any kind of plastic, no matter what kind it is. Am I opened minded to the possibility that Sony could have a stroke of genius and implement plastic in the next R10? Sure I am. I am also highly doubtful. The one great thing about headphones that are not made from plastic is that they have a nice hand to them. They feel good in the hands. They feel like they have consequence. The only plastic that I feel has come close to having a nice hand is bakelite. I know everyone says that the sound is all that matters but I say that communicating passion and feel and substance is just as important. They are not mutually exclusive. 

 

[Maxvla]

Bakelite is so flimsy and cheap, though. They make violin chinrests out of the stuff and I have seen hundreds of them snapped in half over the years.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Are you sure it is bakelite or an imitation? I don't think that true bakelite is manufactured anymore. I have an electric GE water kettle from the 1950's and the chrome and bakelite are still perfect. The bakelite is heavy and smooth, and has a real nice feel to it, unlike any plastic I've ever felt. It doesn't conduct heat either. I boil water in this kettle every day and the bakelite is still as perfect as the day it was made. 

 

[Maxvla]

It's possible they are imitations, but these types of chinrests have been around since the 50s also. I just took in a 1957 EH Roth violin with an original bakelite chinrest on it that matches perfectly with the new ones I have in stock.
 
You are right about it feeling good. It has a nice weight to it and also a nice look when unmarred. When it breaks it has a look of broken glass as it does not bend at all, it simply shatters. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

 

[Vaipec]

And we have lcd-2 and hd-6, not new technology but sure a revamp from 50's... and according to many, mid's to die for (lcd-2) bass never  heard before (again lcd-2) and treble so smooth and clean that you'll die when you listen (he-6) 
 
better than R10 ???
 
Question of personal taste I'll dare to say

 

[orkney]

Quote:

 

Do you mean the R10?
 
They didnt. Sony took more than 8 years to sell about 1200-1300 pairs of R10. Sony maintains that they were sold at a loss from day 1.
 
A quick glance at serial numbers on the HD800 says Sennheiser has already sold that many, if not more... in only nominally more than a year (the first HD800 were delivered to customers during canjam 2009).

My HD800 S/N is in the mid-9000s -- not sure where they started but suggests sales in the 1000s by now and possibly far more. According to the dealer I bought 'em from, there's a standing 2-week backorder. That's some going, if true.
 
o
 

 

[SP Wild]

On the 7/7/08 digger945 was unaware of his special gift for seeing into the future...
 
Quote:

Give me a pair of R-10's and 6 grand.....I'm sorry, what did you say, "can't". How bad do you really want it. I wonder if someone just handed someone at Sony all the specs for the R-10 and said "if you build this, I think it will sound good." Honestly, I think the R-10 could be put to shame by a couple of guys in a garage, with maybe a computer and a friend who has access to a CNC machine.
Come to think of it, I don't remember the last time I heard someone say "can't".

Because two years after his uncanny predictions...


Quote:

And we have lcd-2 and hd-6, not new technology but sure a revamp from 50's... and according to many, mid's to die for (lcd-2) bass never  heard before (again lcd-2) and treble so smooth and clean that you'll die when you listen (he-6) 
 
better than R10 ???
 
Question of personal taste I'll dare to say

I mean...What!!!
 
On a serious note and a slight OT, I have never heard the R10s.  But this thread is terrific as I know nothing about the history of the R10, and this was fantastic.  I fantasize in my mind about an old Japanese Sensei, carefully and painstakingly assembling the R10 with patience and perfection.
 
I once saw a documentary on how the Katana blade was traditionally crafted, I was stunned at the Japanese culture for perfection, well embedded into its history.  I gotta say, the comparison that the current Chinese manufacturing suffers the same stigma as Japanese manufacturing a few decades ago is not the same comparison to make.  In that era when the Japanese products were viewed as inferior, they were developing the fundamental manufacturing principles that are strictly adhered to in modern times.  The Japanese has a culture of perfection deeply rooted into its history...or else...hari kari. 
 
I really, really want an R10 now, I am fantasizing that if an R10 failed QC...then...hari kari. 
 

 

[kwkarth]

That Japanese culture, implemented into their manufacturing methodologies, came to them by way of W. Edwards Deming, an American from Iowa.
 
Ford is only now beginning to implement his methods.
 
Quote:  from Wiki

William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993) was an American statistician, professor,author, lecturer, and consultant. He is perhaps best known for his work in Japan. There, from 1950 onward, he taught top management how to improve design (and thus service), product quality, testing and sales (the last through global markets)^[1] through various methods, including the application of statistical methods.

Deming made a significant contribution to Japan's later reputation for innovative high-quality products and its economic power. He is regarded as having had more impact upon Japanese manufacturing and business than any other individual not of Japanese heritage. Despite being considered something of a hero in Japan, he was only just beginning to win widespread recognition in the U.S. at the time of his death.^[2]

 

 

[vrln]

Quote:

That's right, Sonance.  Nothing ever becomes revered until it goes out of production.  I remember the fights over the K-1000 while it was still on the market.  Its status has completely changed in the years since it went out of production.
 
Today, probably the best thing Sennheiser could do for the HD-800 would be to discontinue it.

Insightful post. Agreed, the HD 800 could easily become another legend if Sennheiser just announced it isn´t making enough profit etc. Same with pretty much any STAX gear (including Lambda´s) if they would go bust again. These days the K1000 is regarded as high end, while back when it was available it was kind of a K701 today: highly polarising. The same phenomenon has been happening with R2R DAC chips as well, even with the only one still in production (tends to gain mythical properties). But yeah, everyone tends to realize how good something was once it´s gone What´s really difficult in life, is to value the things we have right now.
 

 

[castlevania32]

 
Quote:

That Japanese culture, implemented into their manufacturing methodologies, came to them by way of W. Edwards Deming, an American from Iowa.
 
Ford is only now beginning to implement his methods.

hehehe, i think there is more to it than that

look at the way they made katana's, the bushido, kendo, seppuku,etc... it's all related. It's like Germans. Some people do things better than others that's just the way it is !

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

hehehe, i think there is more to it than that

look at the way they made katana's, the bushido, kendo, seppuku,etc... it's all related. It's like Germans. Some people do things better than others that's just the way it is !

I'm saying he showed the Japanese how to take their culture for perfection and turn it into practical reality in a mass production sense.  Deming's approach was a forerunner and foundation of the Six Sigma methodology.