[491838]

It's not sibilant actually. EQ corrects that really well. It's more to do with the way it represents detail or texture. It's quite a departure from the soft texture of planars (the comparison is meaningful because I've EQ-ed my LCD-2 to the same target more or less). It's like the surface detail is pushed really forward compared to other headphones and that reveals a lot of stuff that is actual detail but it also reveals the headphone's own harshness to some extent. It also doesn't help that the bass isn't all that present to make the sound warmer.

 

[longbowbbs]

Spot on JMC. The HD800's are not kind to a poor chain. They have proven their worth over more than a decade of Top end quality. If you ore going to use them you need to make sure the rest of the chain is worthy or be prepared to have your flaws revealed.

 

[johnjen]

I agree as well.
800's will reveal ALL of the sonic traits of the upstream gear with precision and unflinching clarity.

And yes they do have their flaws etc. but where many other HP's will 'soften' this sonic 'edginess', the 800's will not.

So when we move into the very top end of the audio food chain and into audiophool gear, ALL of the details both good and bad will be revealed.

And yes DSP can help but it simply can't 'solve' a poor signal being fed to the 800's.

And as I have previously disclosed, my research has shown that the major 'flaw' with the 800's isn't that 6.5-8KHz peak but rather too much overshoot on the leading edge of the re-created wave form.
This added 'zing' is the major source of the hard edginess and what has been attributed to that 6.5-8KHz peak.
And DSP simply can't address this issue.

There is a solution but it is a DIY project so being willing and able to take the 800's apart and fuss with them is what is needed.

JJ

 

[491838]

DSP can fix most of what is wrong with a headphone's FR in my opinion and no amount of modding and expensive sources will bring the response closer to something resembling neutral (like the HD600 or 650). My pair had mods installed including SDR but I decided to remove them since they barely made a difference (compared to EQ).

I have a new amp on the way and I will also be purchasing the SMSL M400 in the near future. If $1300 in source gear isn't enough then this hobby is stupid. You shouldn't need thousands of dollars in source gear to "fix" a headphone. I think that's mostly a story that people tell themselves to justify essentially burning money on stuff that isn't even that important.

 

[Ichos]

EQ can't fix overshoot , early reflections and unwanted reverb.

 

[Fegefeuer]

Exactly. Else I could skip all room treament just by using a DSP. You can't just dismiss physical modification without either experience or intensively reading about it. Some people here have done room treatment for decades @bagwell359

 

[johnjen]

DSP can fix most of what is wrong with a headphone's FR in my opinion and no amount of modding and expensive sources will bring the response closer to something resembling neutral (like the HD600 or 650). My pair had mods installed including SDR but I decided to remove them since they barely made a difference (compared to EQ).

I have a new amp on the way and I will also be purchasing the SMSL M400 in the near future. If $1300 in source gear isn't enough then this hobby is stupid. You shouldn't need thousands of dollars in source gear to "fix" a headphone. I think that's mostly a story that people tell themselves to justify essentially burning money on stuff that isn't even that important.

I agree that DSP can help with FR aberrations, but overshoot is not a FR problem.
It is a designed in compensation to make the HP sound more spectacular, but has additional acoustic consequences.

This hobby is as stupid as we each let it be.
And for those reaching for State of the Art performance, which the 800's are fully capable of doing, $1300 is a good place to start, but is by no means a pinnacle.
All of this is in the nature of SotA gear and our drive to achieve levels of performance that to some may seem stupid, that is unless you have experienced what a SotA enabled and truly tweaked system can deliver.

Such is the nature of wanting to push our hobby as far we can.

JJ

 

[gimmeheadroom]

DSP can fix most of what is wrong with a headphone's FR in my opinion and no amount of modding and expensive sources will bring the response closer to something resembling neutral (like the HD600 or 650). My pair had mods installed including SDR but I decided to remove them since they barely made a difference (compared to EQ).

I have a new amp on the way and I will also be purchasing the SMSL M400 in the near future. If $1300 in source gear isn't enough then this hobby is stupid. You shouldn't need thousands of dollars in source gear to "fix" a headphone. I think that's mostly a story that people tell themselves to justify essentially burning money on stuff that isn't even that important.

If I understood what you wrote so far in this thread you are running a 1500 euro pair of headphones that are known to be analytical, off a USB audio interface as a headamp and expecting you can make it sound better with DSP.

That is simply not going to work.

 

[491838]

EQ can't fix overshoot , early reflections and unwanted reverb.

I've actually talked about reflections and subjective aspects like that with actual acoustic engineers (oratory, Sean Olive) and their opinion is that headphones do not suffer from the same issues as speakers. It makes no sense to talk about driver enclosures and compare them to speakers in a room. I'm inclined to take the word of engineers over audiophiles with no engineering knowledge.

Though there are aspects about sound that are strange. The LCD-2 was quite strange too and I would agree with you more that in that case I really couldn't fix them with EQ to my liking because some Audeze planars have some form of ringing at 1K that doesn't respond so well to EQ. The HD800 sounds much more normal throughout the mids and highs but they have a more analytical timbre that some people might find fatiguing. I don't imagine that being fixed by magic by any source, except maybe for tube amps, but I don't use headphones that way. I don't want any form of coloration or distortion from my amps because I also use headphones as reference equipment for music production.

If I understood what you wrote so far in this thread you are running a 1500 euro pair of headphones that are known to be analytical, off a USB audio interface as a headamp and expecting you can make it sound better with DSP.

That is simply not going to work.

It doesn't sound bad. I actually expected them to suck on a cheap source but they don't hence why I think the "HD800 is super transparent to different sources" meme might be more of a myth than reality. But everyone acknowledges the fact that they sound sharp on any source (maybe not tube amps, but I digress) so it's really a matter of how much enjoyment you can derive from a headphone that will sound sharp occasionally.

My disappointment has more to do with the fact that expensive headphones that are highly praised still need some form of fixing. The HD600 was much better in that regard out of the box. No need for EQ or esoteric sources.

 

[Sound Trooper]

I’ve joined the HD800 gang with my recently new-old purchase. Sounds phenomenal directly out of a Dave and it is a pleasure for long listening sessions. From what I am hearing, the HD800 has a slightly warm-neutral sound signature and a very lifelike sound stage. Bass, thou not the most impactful, is fast and clean. I’m just kicking myself that I took 10 years to discover this gem.

 

[longbowbbs]

HD800's and the DAVE are a solid combination. The Headphone amp on that DAC is excellent. The DAC is one of the best. Enjoy your new system!

 

[roskodan]

@Dealux So how do you explain what Sennheiser did in regard of the HD800S. They must've hidden some active dsp device inside? Or maybe it's just placebo effect of the color black?

 

[elvergun]

I’ve joined the HD800 gang with my recently new-old purchase. Sounds phenomenal directly out of a Dave and it is a pleasure for long listening sessions. From what I am hearing, the HD800 has a slightly warm-neutral sound signature and a very lifelike sound stage. Bass, thou not the most impactful, is fast and clean. I’m just kicking myself that I took 10 years to discover this gem.

Congratulations.

I see they came with leather pads. You will never have to worry about the original pads falling apart on you.

 

[MacedonianHero]

@Dealux So how do you explain what Sennheiser did in regard of the HD800S. They must've hidden some active dsp device inside? Or maybe it's just placebo effect of the color black?

No magic, just a Helmholtz resonator to soak up the 6kHz peak and smooth things out. That and all black is about it.

 

[Ichos]

So masking effect and resonances existed and couldn't be fixed with a simple EQ?

Very weird , EQ should fix everything according to Mr. @Dealux..

Now all this things have been discussed thousand of times and can't be denied.
Headphones are tiny speakers inside a tiny room and they obey to the same physics lows.
And of course it is hundred times more difficult to get past that acoustic problems and that is why we don't have not even one headphone without problems and the perfect tonality.

Regarding the HD800 , fanboyism is good and please enjoy as you all like but it suffers from well known problems and limitations that can't be fixed with a simple EQ.
Facts are facts , that's life.