[gimmeheadroom]

My disappointment has more to do with the fact that expensive headphones that are highly praised still need some form of fixing. The HD600 was much better in that regard out of the box. No need for EQ or esoteric sources.

The two cans you're talking about are for different uses. The 600 is for enjoying music, the 800 is more for producing it and analyzing it. I think Sennheiser didn't make it clear but that's what we figured out after listening to them.

Just because a pair of headphones is expensive does not imply that it is more enjoyable to listen to. To me the 800 is a special purpose tool that is good for what I bought it for.

 

[491838]

@Dealux So how do you explain what Sennheiser did in regard of the HD800S. They must've hidden some active dsp device inside? Or maybe it's just placebo effect of the color black?

Tyll explained it quite well. They tuned the driver a bit differently with the resonator and by increasing the bass distortion to warm up the sound. Hence why people think the 800S is the inferior headphone. In my opinion it's not worth the money given what a used HD800 goes for these days (half price essentially) and you can just get new pads and stuff with the rest of the money.

So masking effect and resonances existed and couldn't be fixed with a simple EQ?

Very weird , EQ should fix everything according to Mr. @Dealux..

Not according to me though. Acoustic engineers like oratory and Sean Olive seem to think that those resonances would be represented in the FR graph. Though even an industry standard HATS won't 100% simulate any individuals personal HRTF.

If you're not an acoustic engineer that designs headphone drivers I would refrain from making "engineer" claims of the sort you're making.

Just because a pair of headphones is expensive does not imply that it is more enjoyable to listen to. To me the 800 is a special purpose tool that is good for what I bought it for.

The consensus seems to be that the 800 is not very neutral at all (the 600 and 650 were much much closer). Really the only thing they need to fix about most high end headphones is the FR. NONE of them adhere to any specific target.

 

[Ichos]

Have you ever seen a waterfall CSD graph of HD800?
Observe the ringing and resonances at certain frequencies.

The resonator and the increase of bass distortion is acoustic mechanical solutions or EQ solution?
So Sennheiser admitted that there is a problem at 6Khz and fixed it with a resonator while according to you (and the mechanics you claim) it could be easily fixed with EQ.
You are waisting your knowledge please apply for Sennheiser now that Grell is gone.

I am sorry but your points are totally vague.

 

[491838]

Have you ever seen a waterfall CSD graph of HD800?
Observe the ringing and resonances at certain frequencies.
The resonator and the increase of bass distortion is acoustic mechanical solutions or EQ solution?

I am sorry but your points are totally vague.

I don't know that anyone knows how to read CSD graphs. You can hit up oratory1990 on reddit and read his thoughts on the subject. He's the acoustic engineer so I'm inclined to take his word for it.

 

[Ichos]

Let's clear some things up.
I have owned for years HD800 with and without mods and HD800s.
I have applied all the possible EQ solutions including Oratory and Sonarworks.
First EQ kills the headphone character and secondly can't fix the ringing not even of HD800s not to mention HD800.
So please enjoy your headphones but don't believe in chimeras and don't try to prove the opposite for facts that are measured and proven thousands of times here and other forums and labs.

 

[491838]

The SDR mod doesn't fix it either. I removed it for that reason. I get very decent results with the 5-band version of the oratory HD800 profile.

BTW, in my opinion, the HD800 is more tolerable with his EQ compared to the LCD-2F. That one had some severe timbre issues that weren't really reflected in his measurements. the 0.9/1K forwardness sounded pretty bad even post EQ.

 

[Ichos]

As they say if you can't hear the resonances then you are happy.
So apply your preferred EQ curve and enjoy!

 

[roskodan]

I agree with Ichos. Overall this has been too vague and arbitrary in regards to my understanding of the laws of physics. You can "room treat" a headphone to change its frequency response proprieties.

The space bounded between the driver and the ear in an ideal (doesn't exist) open headphone, is like speakers in open space. Similar as having small monitors in a larger studio monitoring room, you can approximate that as speakers in open space.

The reality of the laws of physics is that a headphone will always act more like an instrument in a recording room. And you can treat the frequency response of that room (or headphone) with various engineering approaches like conversion of sound waves into heat (e.g. open cell foam).

The same you can achieve with DSP. Where DSP and room treatment diverge is the ability of DSP to easily apply complex functions to treat a headphone, or room, frequency response.

But that's it, only the frequency response can be affected, whether you choose to use DSP or room treatment.

What neither room treatment nor DSP can do, is change the inherit physical proprieties of a driver, or speaker (i.e. change it's electromagnetic and mechanical proprieties).

 

[Ichos]

There are several boundaries.
Space between enclosure and driver is the one and the other is between the ear and the diver - enclosure.
All these reflections must be treated mechanically and it is quite difficult to do it.
There are even reflections between driver and outer enclosure even in open back headphones.
A good headphone is like a good speaker in the ideal room.
It must sound correct without applying further mechanical diy treatment and of course EQ.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

First EQ kills the headphone character and secondly can't fix the ringing not even of HD800s not to mention HD800.

Most of the time I don't EQ my 800s (not 800S) at all. I don't believe it's a warm or romantic headphone but it's great for orchestral music and good for hearing details in recordings. If I play some Joni Mitchell over my RME the parametric EQ works perfectly well to take the edge off. I don't notice any offensive side-effects.

 

[Ichos]

I preferred mine without EQ even though I was applying it very mildly.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I preferred mine without EQ even though I was applying it very mildly.

Some Joni Mitchell songs will piece your skull like icicles on a pair of 800s

I don't know about the 800Ss, I never heard them.

 

[Ichos]

Some Joni Mitchell songs will piece your skull like icicles on a pair of 800s

I don't know about the 800Ss, I never heard them.

HD800s is a little better behaved.
I was saved because I listen only to classical music and all my recordings are after the '80s!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

HD800s is a little better behaved.
I was saved because I listen only to classical music and all my recordings are after the '80s!

Definitely a great set of cans for orchestral, classical etc. But there should be a lot of great recordings before 1980.

 

[Ichos]

Yes sure there are but when I reorganized my CD collection , years years ago , I decided that everything should be DDD.