[ColtMrFire]

  HD800 tonal issues are there.

 
For certain people yes, but I love the stock configuration.  Everyone has different priorities.  

 

[MattTCG]

  HD800 tonal issues are there . Mainly Slight lack of bass extension and impact compared to the best ( HE-6 for example) , dipped high mids and a treble emphasis especially around 2 or 3 spots.  those issues can have more or less significant effect depending on the music we're listening to. 
 
I recently bought a RME ADI2 pro soundcard that offers ( amongst a lot of other features ) a 5 bands parametric EQ so I'm playing with it and listened to a lot of sweep tones to detect by ears what  seems to need a fix . Once properly EQed , benefits are really obvious. I applied very little corrections to find my sweet spot and the most important to my ears is to fix a significant Dip around 4khz . my SDR mod already fixed the 6khz peak so I didn't need a lot of work on that . Critical area to my ears is the 4-,5,5khz range ( let's say I cut 4 db around 5,3 khz and add 4 db around 4khz and I take care to not add or cut to much db below and above this range ). 3 or 4 db added between 20/70hz add a nice heft as well. I also try to fix a higher peak around 10Khz I clearly hear in sweep tones but which does not affect much how music sounds.  
 
Once my Senn EQed as mentionned, i did a lot of listenings and it confirmed my previous experience. Applied EQ makes very significant difference for the music I struggled to appreciate with my Senn and not so much ( but still significant) for music I was already enjoying a lot. I didn't detect any drawback yet but I really tried to be careful with EQ and to not apply drastic change and try to make my HD800 sounds like another headphone. More interesting experience : Even after EQ applied, mMy amplifier Stratus still makes sense and makes a difference compared to the very decent amplifier embedded in the RME  
 
Sure I could live happily without those small tonal fixes but now I had a taste of what EQ brings to the table, there will be not return.
 
Except tonal issues , the Senn is a bit slow and grey compared to something Like Stax Omegas or A focal Utopia . There's no way to fix that. Only senn can do it and release a new faster HD800. Hopefully soon.  But, to my ears , this relatively slow nature of the HD800 is not at all a dealbreaker. I know people who are focused on and I can get why. fortunately there're a lot of good headphones that offer sometimes something better than the HD800 but a lot of downsides as well.  Nothing new under the sun. 

 
Gentle EQ done correctly can certainly take the hd800 to the next level both from a performance and enjoyment perspective. I fought EQ for years but now rely on it to make small tonal changes to all my headphones. 
 
I guess that I get your point about the hd800 being "slow." Even compared to my Ether Flow open, it's obvious that the Flow is quicker with better decay of notes. The sound just emerges instantly from a very black background. Stats will of course be even faster. 

 

[Sorrodje]

@MattTCG : yea, 8 years old driver. Shows its age compared to the new focals for example. But those focals exhibit other issues.  and despite the slowness, i never found a headphone i prefer to my HD800. 
 
@ColtMrFire :  Even if those issues don't bother you, denying them makes no sense.  I never heard a 100% perfect headphone. Only headphones with issues I can live with or not.  

 

[ColtMrFire]

 
@ColtMrFire :  Even if those issues don't bother you, denying them makes no sense.  I never heard a 100% perfect headphone. Only headphones with issues I can live with or not.  

 
You said "tonal issues".  They are only "issues" for certain people.  An issue is something that needs fixing.  For certain people there is nothing they want fixed, hence no issue.  This is all very subjective.  I also never claimed the HD800 was perfect.

 

[LugBug1]

   
You said "tonal issues".  They are only "issues" for certain people.  An issue is something that needs fixing.  For certain people there is nothing they want fixed, hence no issue.  This is all very subjective.  I also never claimed the HD800 was perfect.

Have to agree with this. Its the same on other threads at the mo. Folk trying to fix the HD650's veil...
 
It is of course subjective, one mans cheese is another man's turnip (just made that one up... Can you tell?). But an issue is only an issue if it's an issue to you! I'm not going to say the HD800 is perfect. Perfection doesn't exist for a start. But I can honestly say there is nothing I'd change about the sound. I used to do a lot of E'Qing in the passed both digital and analogue - It can do wonders! But I hear no need for the HD800. Little things like the dip at around 3-4khz for example help the sound to be more natural to my ears. When these frequencies are flat or slightly etched, thats where you start getting nasalness (new word folks). Even the mighty HD600 has this at a very small level. The K701 - Grado's are the kings of nasalness  No such nasal problems with the HD800 or the HD700 for that matter (although the HD700 could actually do with a little lift in this area.) 
 
In my experience "a flat line is only good for mixing - Not for hifi listening..." Quote of the year!!       

 

[Sorrodje]

In my opinion,  "tonal issues" are facts and they aren't relative to my tastes or preferences.  a good chunck of "issues" is sometimes the thing that make us love something or someone ..
 
 
At least, it's what my wife explained me when sh look at my belly. ahem. 

 

[ColtMrFire]

A headphone is like a Rorschach test for the ears.  

 

[MWSVette]

  A headphone is like a Rorschach test for the ears.  

I cannot agree with this statement enough.
 
We are each different in what we sound hear and how we then interpret that sound...
 

 

[LugBug1]

  In my opinion,  "tonal issues" are facts and they aren't relative to my tastes or preferences.  a good chunck of "issues" is sometimes the thing that make us love something or someone ..
 
 
At least, it's what my wife explained me when sh look at my belly. ahem. 

  
 
Well since you put it like that.. My wife is one big issue! But would I change her though... Hmm (maybe a few tweeks wouldn't go a miss 

 )

 

[LugBug1]

  A headphone is like a Rorschach test for the ears.  

 
 

 
I cannot agree with this statement enough.
 
We are each different in what we sound hear and how we then interpret that sound...
 

While I can kind of understand the analogy... The headphone is still a tool for us to enjoy music. Not a tool to decipher our response to FR in respect to what is the ultimate sound quality. One man's cheese etc..
 
I still stand by; we judge a headphone by all other headphones. There is no ultimate "idea" of a headphone in Plato terms. And we must refrain from using words such as "facts" (like the lovely Sorrodje just has) when we are talking about subjective opinions in SQ. Yes it's a "fact" (in relevant terms) that there is a 6k peak. But there is no "fact" that it is wrongly there and affects the sound negatively. The "issue" is therefore purely subjective.   

 

[ColtMrFire]

Well said.

 

[LugBug1]

I think we can all agree tis a beautiful looking machine. (just took this in rare UK sunshine  
 

 

[chucky27]

Hi,

I've just joined the HD800 club (good deal on 1year used pair with SDR mod). Have couple of questions:
1) Earpads: cleaned and disinfected them, fabric is in very good condition, but I can't tell if the foam is too compressed or not. Can somebody please measure the pad thickness, i would be very grateful.
2) Soundstage: while extra details are there (compared to my HD650), soundstage improvement is there too, but not even remotely to the extent that is usually talked about (maybe i was expecting too much...). I use DAC-19 (DSPv7) and Meier Corda Jazz-FF. Can it be and upstream gear 'issue' or just the way my ears\brain work?

Thanks

 

[Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by chucky27 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
2) Soundstage: while extra details are there (compared to my HD650), soundstage improvement is there too, but not even remotely to the extent that is usually talked about (maybe i was expecting too much...). I use DAC-19 (DSPv7) and Meier Corda Jazz-FF. Can it be and upstream gear 'issue' or just the way my ears\brain work?

Thanks

 
Agreed, and yet another example as to why you should always take what you read on the internet with a huge grain of salt, especially hype.  Do they seem to project outward more than a closed-back pair of headphones?  Sure, but they aren't really this mind-blowing, night and day difference in spaciousness compared to pretty much any open pair that so many reviews, and especially this site would have you believe.  While they might technically be one of the headphones, if not the headphones with the widest soundstage, it's kind of like comparing a 9.0 with a 9.5. 
 
Although what material you're listening to seems to make a pretty large impact too.  Despite what many claim, classical or jazz doesn't make me feel like I am in a "live room", nor are the instruments separated more than what they are on my DT880s or Alpha Dogs.  Some acoustic stuff sounds slightly more speaker/surround like, if only slightly.  Movies on the other hand are noticeably more speaker like.  That also happens to be the main reason I picked these up anyway, aside from simple curiosity.

 

[LugBug1]

   
Agreed, and yet another example as to why you should always take what you read on the internet with a huge grain of salt, especially hype.  Do they seem to project outward more than a closed-back pair of headphones?  Sure, but they aren't really this mind-blowing, night and day difference in spaciousness compared to pretty much any open pair that so many reviews, and especially this site would have you believe.  While they might technically be one of the headphones, if not the headphones with the widest soundstage, it's kind of like comparing a 9.0 with a 9.5. 
 
Although what material you're listening to seems to make a pretty large impact too.  Despite what many claim, classical or jazz doesn't make me feel like I am in a "live room", nor are the instruments separated more than what they are on my DT880s or Alpha Dogs.  Some acoustic stuff sounds slightly more speaker/surround like, if only slightly.  Movies on the other hand are noticeably more speaker like.  That also happens to be the main reason I picked these up anyway, aside from simple curiosity.

At the end of the day we are only talking about headphones... So in that respect I suppose it's up to the individual how they let their imagination run. 
 
I personally find the HD800 night and day compared to the HD650 (which is the headphone the poster has upgraded from) Bit like going from a classic Ford to a Bentley. But anyone only wanting to get from A to B is probably not going to appreciate the difference. Sound quality is a learned experience like anything. Sure we all have our tastes and preferences that are instant - but the whole point of sites such as Head-fi is to discuss the sound quality and all things related. As time goes on you can actually learn a lot. I've learned a lot about sound quality and the reproduction of it, this has helped me build systems to cater for my preferences.
Now anyone expecting a headphone's soundstage to sound like a pair of speakers in their room is realistically expecting a bit too much. If a headphone has been described as having a speaker-like presentation or soundstage, then it has to be taken within relevance to headphone listening and the expectations involved, naturally? I would have thought this would be common sense..
 
Soundstage size is an important part of a headphone and no-one on here with any experience is going to agree that they are all pretty much the same size. Because they are not. And to say the HD800 has only 0.5 larger soundstage over the HD650 is absurd my friend. I'm sorry! But it is...