[LarryMagoo]

Their new Schiit Jotunheim has balanced out ad seems to be reviewed as having a bunch of power for the XLR out's 

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

If/when we got an OTL "tubenheim" I'm gonna be all over that.

 

[pctazhp]

  Their new Schiit Jotunheim has balanced out ad seems to be reviewed as having a bunch of power for the XLR out's 

My experience running the HD800S single ended is that power is really not an issue. There is much more involved in choosing a good amp. But at least for those living in the US, the Jotunheim may be worth a try because Schiit offers a 15-day return right, although there is shipping and restocking fee involved I believe.
 
I have said this before, but my Elise runs circles around the Valhalla 2.
 
Candidly, I have never understood why the mere fact that an amp is balanced is important in a desktop environment. I believe there are other far more important considerations. But this is just my personal opinion.

 

[FLTWS]

...  
Candidly, I have never understood why the mere fact that an amp is balanced is important in a desktop environment. I believe there are other far more important considerations. But this is just my personal opinion.

 
 I never had any exposure to balanced versus SE until a few months ago, (50 years SE before that) now I'm hooked, I like what I hear. Everyone talks about long cable runs and noise rejection characteristics, blah, blah, etc. What I hear is a very solid left/right signal that blends to a more solid center image impression which is extremely important with a symphony orchestra spread out in front of me. I hear less of this solid center with SE. Maybe the pieces parts in my electronic chains were designed to sound better thru balanced than SE and that's the reason I prefer it balanced, it is what it is for me.
 
I also used to be a card carrying SS disparager. I'm changing my views on that as well. SS sound has come a long way since the 60's to my ears.
 
 
I like and can afford to have options so I'm no longer single minded with regard to amplification type at this point. I trust my ears to tell me what I like.
 
Considering the low cost I may try one SE Valhalla2 anyway, but I'm juggling too many components in the air now as it is and I can be patient at this point. End gamer phones for me is my primary focus, this amplification stuff is a second line of thought as I'm pretty satisfied with what I have and what's already on order.
 
I never though in the very early 80's that CD's would ever sound as good as LP's to my ears. I was wrong.
 
When I finally turned to the dark side and sold my LP collection I thought, wow, the then current crop of CD players (Wadia separates) provided a silent background for the music compared to LP's, can't get much better. (And the quality of transfer of A to D and the D itself were improving as well).  I was wrong again, Today I'm constantly getting spooked when the music starts. I look to the LED display on my transport and see: 0.01, 0.02, I'm thinking what's wrong, then that 1st attack by the instruments comes and I almost jump. And this is with music I had on LP's then replaced with CD's and listened to with the tech of the late 80's. I could still hear the background tape hiss before the music started. Not so much now.
 
But, those just my impressions at this point in time.

 

[fjrabon]

   
 I never had any exposure to balanced versus SE until a few months ago, (50 years SE before that) now I'm hooked, I like what I hear. Everyone talks about long cable runs and noise rejection characteristics, blah, blah, etc. What I hear is a very solid left/right signal that blends to a more solid center image impression which is extremely important with a symphony orchestra spread out in front of me. I hear less of this solid center with SE. Maybe the pieces parts in my electronic chains were designed to sound better thru balanced than SE and that's the reason I prefer it balanced, it is what it is for me.
 
I also used to be a card carrying SS disparager. I'm changing my views on that as well. SS sound has come a long way since the 60's to my ears.
 
 
I like and can afford to have options so I'm no longer single minded with regard to amplification type at this point. I trust my ears to tell me what I like.
 
Considering the low cost I may try one SE Valhalla2 anyway, but I'm juggling too many components in the air now as it is and I can be patient at this point. End gamer phones for me is my primary focus, this amplification stuff is a second line of thought as I'm pretty satisfied with what I have and what's already on order.
 
I never though in the very early 80's that CD's would ever sound as good as LP's to my ears. I was wrong.
 
When I finally turned to the dark side and sold my LP collection I thought, wow, the then current crop of CD players Wadia separates) provided a silent background for the music compared to LP's, can't get much better. (And the quality of transfer of A to D and the D itself were improving as well).  I was wrong again, Today I'm constantly getting spooked when the music starts. I look to the LED display on my transport and see: 0.01, 0.02, I'm thinking what's wrong, then that 1st attack by the instruments comes and I almost jump. And this is with music I had on LP's then replaced with CD's and listened to with the tech of the late 80's. I could still hear the background tape hiss before the music started. Not so much now.
 
But, those just my impressions at this point in time.

really this is just purely a result of crosstalk, which is fairly easily measured.  Some SE amps are bad with crosstalk, some are good with it. Usually a fully differential single end amp competes toe to toe on crosstalk measurements.

 

[FLTWS]

 
really this is just purely a result of crosstalk, which is fairly easily measured.  Some SE amps are bad with crosstalk, some are good with it. Usually a fully differential single end amp competes toe to toe on crosstalk measurements.

 
That makes sense.

 

[LarryMagoo]

   
 I never had any exposure to balanced versus SE until a few months ago, (50 years SE before that) now I'm hooked, I like what I hear. Everyone talks about long cable runs and noise rejection characteristics, blah, blah, etc. What I hear is a very solid left/right signal that blends to a more solid center image impression which is extremely important with a symphony orchestra spread out in front of me. I hear less of this solid center with SE. Maybe the pieces parts in my electronic chains were designed to sound better thru balanced than SE and that's the reason I prefer it balanced, it is what it is for me.
 
I also used to be a card carrying SS disparager. I'm changing my views on that as well. SS sound has come a long way since the 60's to my ears.
 
 
When I finally turned to the dark side and sold my LP collection I thought, wow, the then current crop of CD players (Wadia separates) provided a silent background for the music compared to LP's, can't get much better. (And the quality of transfer of A to D and the D itself were improving as well).  I was wrong again, Today I'm constantly getting spooked when the music starts. I look to the LED display on my transport and see: 0.01, 0.02, I'm thinking what's wrong, then that 1st attack by the instruments comes and I almost jump. And this is with music I had on LP's then replaced with CD's and listened to with the tech of the late 80's. I could still hear the background tape hiss before the music started. Not so much now.
 
But, those just my impressions at this point in time.

FLTWS,
 
I wish more HP reviewers would discuss SE versus Balanced...because I, like you, think it is a big deal....I won't even consider an HP Amp unless it has XLR's 4 pin outs....Makes me think the designer was not into it as well...At least on my amp is has 4X the power of the SE connection.....
 
Another thing that blows me away, like you, I think vinyl is totally silly....You can spend $100K + on just a table ...let alone the Arm/ Cartridge set up....and you can still hear the needle dragging on the vinyl....and with every play you deform the grooves so with every successive play , you wear out the record...crappy signal to noise compared with Black Silent background...way larger signal to noise...of DIGITAL....I use to have the full set up with a Table that featured Multiple arms...I had the VIP record cleaner...the little doodad that lifted the tone arm after the disc was finished so I did not have to sprint to the table to lift the arm before it crashed into the spindle ++++ I love how easy it is to select a digital file, instead of listening to whole album side 'cause you spent so much f'n time preping the vinyl to listen to.  I was one of Mobile Fidelity's biggest customers...I had the whole Beatle catalog on MoFi...sold the whole kit and caboodle to go digital...never looked back!!!

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

   
I have said this before, but my Elise runs circles around the Valhalla 2.

It is 2x the price. In your view, does it offer 2x the SQ? Could anyone chime in about the WA3?

 

[FLTWS]

  FLTWS,
 
I wish more HP reviewers would discuss SE versus Balanced...because I, like you, think it is a big deal....I won't even consider an HP Amp unless it has XLR's 4 pin outs....Makes me think the designer was not into it as well...At least on my amp is has 4X the power of the SE connection.....
 
Another thing that blows me away, like you, I think vinyl is totally silly....You can spend $100K + on just a table ...let alone the Arm/ Cartridge set up....and you can still hear the needle dragging on the vinyl....and with every play you deform the grooves so with every successive play , you wear out the record...crappy signal to noise compared with Black Silent background...way larger signal to noise...of DIGITAL....I use to have the full set up with a Table that featured Multiple arms...I had the VIP record cleaner...the little doodad that lifted the tone arm after the disc was finished so I did not have to sprint to the table to lift the arm before it crashed into the spindle ++++ I love how easy it is to select a digital file, instead of listening to whole album side 'cause you spent so much f'n time preping the vinyl to listen to.  I was one of Mobile Fidelity's biggest customers...I had the whole Beatle catalog on MoFi...sold the whole kit and caboodle to go digital...never looked back!!!

 
I had a Nitty Gritty Record Cleaner plus a whole box of implements and accessories necessary to clean the stylus, align it, check the table for absolute level (I used machinists tools with a special jig made to sit directly over the spindle), adjust the belt speed to 331/3 precisely (worked just like a timing light in an auto), and destatic-ize the LP. I had a vacuum suction platter and isolater's for the TT, things to isolate the isolaters...
 
It was like a church service with all bells, whistles, and procedural items on my checklist, only it took more time.  By the time I would finally get around to lowering the tone arm and stylus into the groove, set the volume to where I thought I would want it, and walked back to my listening chair I was winded. And then the volume was usually too high or too low necessitating another trip across the room and back. Good times, good times. But I was much younger then as well.
 
I didn't know my DAC from a whole in the ground at that point and blamed the early poor quality CD sound on that nebulous demon, digititis. But eventually DACs improved, recording engineers got a better handle on how to use the 0's and 1's, and and things started sounding better, including some of the already released early port-overs from analogue tape to digital CD. It wasn't perfect or necessarily better but it sure was less labor intensive. I eventually jumped ship. The only LP I think I didn't get rid of was the "Fugs" first album (great album cover), saw'em live at the (original) Electric Factory in Philly during my ill spent early adulthood life phase.

 

[fjrabon]

  I won't even consider an HP Amp unless it has XLR's 4 pin outs....Makes me think the designer was not into it as well...At least on my amp is has 4X the power of the SE connection.....
 

This makes no sense on multiple levels.  Balanced is not magically better, or even inherently better.  Balanced can have some advantages, but a well designed SE amp can very much stand toe to toe with any balanced amp on short cable runs.  Yes, many balanced amps are better, but it's mostly because they're better amps, not because they're balanced.  And 4X more power doesn't mean anything unless you're actually using the power.  People on here have some sort of idea that having 4 watts available matters when you're not coming anywhere even close to actually using that power.

 

[whirlwind]

  I want an OTL amp for my HD800. Do you think Woo Audio WA3 will solve the purpose. Since I would be only using it with my high impedance HD800 this falls in my budget too. If you guys using tube amps could provide me more inputs I would really appreciate it.

I am using this, but I think any OTL would be a decent match..
 

 

 

[FLTWS]

The Force is strong in the glow of those tubes.

 

[LarryMagoo]

  This makes no sense on multiple levels.  Balanced is not magically better, or even inherently better.  Balanced can have some advantages, but a well designed SE amp can very much stand toe to toe with any balanced amp on short cable runs.  Yes, many balanced amps are better, but it's mostly because they're better amps, not because they're balanced.  And 4X more power doesn't mean anything unless you're actually using the power.  People on here have some sort of idea that having 4 watts available matters when you're not coming anywhere even close to actually using that power.

Fjrabon,
 
I would also agree with your statements above, what I guess I meant was the Senn's 300 Ohms does take some poop to drive and the SE out's on the HA-1 does not sufficiently have the headroom to make the 800S really sing.  My opinion is my balanced does sound better than my SE outs but that's just me...And certainly there is way more to music reproduction than sheer power...When I think I have my HP's really cranked up I am only half way (High Gain setting) on the Vol knob...
 
It does seem though when I read about Amps with the Balanced outs, it's not uncommon to read about SQ difference between the two types of output...   I guess all anyone looking for is that sweet coupling between an Amp and their Cans that delivery them to their nirvana!!

 

 

[pctazhp]

  It is 2x the price. In your view, does it offer 2x the SQ? Could anyone chime in about the WA3?

That's a very fair point and valid question. First, I was probably being too flippant in saying the Elise runs circles around the V2. V2 is clearly a good amp and good value. I never really know how to answer a question of whether one piece of gear is X times better than another.
 
For me, the SQ I get from the Elise and the much greater tube-rolling flexibility make it clearly worth the price difference for me. Would I advise someone who needed to incur credit card debt and pay it off over time to finance the additional cost of the Elise to buy it. Absolutely not.
 
Unfortunately the Elise is a gamble. It ships from Poland and there is no return right. When I bought mine (received it in January) I had to pay and then wait 10 weeks. I understand the wait time now is much shorter, but still there is no right of return. I'm thrilled with the Elise and the many satisfied owners on the two active Elise threads certainly are some indication of its value and special qualities. But it is still a gamble for anyone who orders it.
 
Sorry. Don't know anything about the WA3.

 

[FLTWS]

  This makes no sense on multiple levels.  Balanced is not magically better, or even inherently better.  Balanced can have some advantages, but a well designed SE amp can very much stand toe to toe with any balanced amp on short cable runs.  Yes, many balanced amps are better, but it's mostly because they're better amps, not because they're balanced.  And 4X more power doesn't mean anything unless you're actually using the power.  People on here have some sort of idea that having 4 watts available matters when you're not coming anywhere even close to actually using that power.

 Does the availability of extra power headroom, even though you couldn't / wouldn't use all of it all of the time, but only use a small bit occasionally, have any value in a headphone? So the signal isn't continuously banging its head on some electrical limit or ceiling generating distortion of some sort. (Of course exceed the power limitations of the transducer too much for too long should = something fried).