The New Enleum AMP-23R Amplifier (Successor to Bakoon AMP-13R) Thread

Aug 30, 2023 at 4:26 PM Post #1,726 of 1,959
I’ve not mentioned firmware. I mentioned software. Not the same thing.

Yes, I was one of the people who suggested it may be faulty. I accept most of the Enleum response re: DC offset etc. but I struggled with the “measures okay = must be okay“. At this point, having heard and measured the lack of mids then either other people’s tastes are weird; they’re deaf, or, there’s something weird going on.
 
Aug 30, 2023 at 6:28 PM Post #1,728 of 1,959
I’ve not mentioned firmware. I mentioned software. Not the same thing.
Technically yes, but in the end still it would mean that there is a digital processing (or am I wrong?). Software is mostly for the pot operation (remote) I think.

At this point, having heard and measured the lack of mids then either other people’s tastes are weird; they’re deaf, or, there’s something weird going on.
But the thing is, I think, that if it measures normally then it works fine. I think that there should be other problems besides that one. Did you ever heard about an amp that is faulty with ‘smoothing textures of instruments’ or ‘recessing mid rage?’. I didn’t but I don’t know everything. Still it sounds like a nonsense to me. Usually when the gear is faulty you have things like distortion, gain loss, one channel dead, etc. Amp is an analog thing, so usually you need to have a physical damage to it.

Also why do you say that their taste must be weird? That’s why there are discussions on this forum or differences in the reviews - people like different stuff. Many like bass (this is how our brain works) but not all. Some people like sharper treble other more smoothed. I wouldn’t say that anyone’s taste is weird. It’s just different from mine and that’s ok.

I the end we won’t know for sure. It would mean that we should check two samples from people that say contradictory things. For once I heard two models - version 1 with old remote in store and then version 2 that I have in home. I wasn’t able to A/B them, but I had problems with mid range from the start so ver. 1 also (I wrote about it here before buying Enleum). Moreover I was A/B Amp-23R with Ferrum stack and the midrange was better on Oor and Hypsos.
 
Aug 31, 2023 at 1:09 PM Post #1,729 of 1,959
Lots of reasons software can screw up sound. Thinking that if it measures okay then it must be okay is a tad naive. We don’t know what parameters Enleum use to draw that conclusion for starters.

Usually when the gear is faulty you have things like distortion, gain loss, one channel dead, etc. Amp is an analog thing, so usually you need to have a physical damage to it.

Usually but not always. My Naim power amp showed none of those symptoms at all but I was absolutely convinced “something” was wrong. Upon return to the factory it was discovered to be fried i.e. several components had blown.

You have completely missed my point re: weird tastes. My point was that, objectively, I can show that the amp I heard lacked mids. Others either have an amp which does have those mids, which makes the one I had faulty, or, theirs might not have mids but they think it does In which case they have a hearing issue, or, … weird tastes.

I guess that if I am to persist with my interest in the amp then my choices are

- try another dealer.
- find someone in the North West of England with the Enleum who believes that theirs is working; has the mid range; the large soundstage and the stunning vocals and see if they’d be kind enough to let me listen.
 
Aug 31, 2023 at 1:22 PM Post #1,730 of 1,959
Lots of reasons software can screw up sound. Thinking that if it measures okay then it must be okay is a tad naive. We don’t know what parameters Enleum use to draw that conclusion for starters.



Usually but not always. My Naim power amp showed none of those symptoms at all but I was absolutely convinced “something” was wrong. Upon return to the factory it was discovered to be fried i.e. several components had blown.

You have completely missed my point re: weird tastes. My point was that, objectively, I can show that the amp I heard lacked mids. Others either have an amp which does have those mids, which makes the one I had faulty, or, theirs might not have mids but they think it does In which case they have a hearing issue, or, … weird tastes.

I guess that if I am to persist with my interest in the amp then my choices are

- try another dealer.
- find someone in the North West of England with the Enleum who believes that theirs is working; has the mid range; the large soundstage and the stunning vocals and see if they’d be kind enough to let me listen.
How can you call someone naive then in the next paragraph call other peoples tastes 'weird'..
 
Aug 31, 2023 at 2:03 PM Post #1,731 of 1,959
How can you call someone naive then in the next paragraph call other peoples tastes 'weird'..
Make a choice. Read the post and comment on it, or, attack the poster. I called the view that “okay measurements means okay“ naive. I did not call any person naive. If you’d like a fight kindly go find another thread.
 
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Sep 1, 2023 at 4:45 AM Post #1,733 of 1,959
With all due respect, if you want to disagree with a post then disagree with it. By all means pull it apart and offer clear reasoned justifications for doing so. We may not agree but full respect for that. If on the other hand your response is to attack the poster rather than the post then you’re likely breaching the terms on which most sites operates. You’re also showing that you actually lack a reasoned argument in response. If you had a reasoned response most would presume that you’d offer that before an attack on the poster.

The poster above inferred I had attacked an individual when I clearly had not. I exercised my right of response to that. The poster directly above then decides to also attack the poster not the post and incredibly asserts that there is a justification for a personal attack.

It will be plain enough to most here that disagreeing with the tone of a post is never going to be a justification for attacking a poster. I suspect most of us would agree that trying to justify a personal attack is a slippery slope which isn’t going to end well for the person trying to do that.
 
Sep 1, 2023 at 5:27 AM Post #1,734 of 1,959
spare us your sanctimony. i can repost examples of you attacking the poster if your memory fails you.
 
Sep 1, 2023 at 6:54 AM Post #1,735 of 1,959
Lots of reasons software can screw up sound. Thinking that if it measures okay then it must be okay is a tad naive. We don’t know what parameters Enleum use to draw that conclusion for starters.
Yes, I agree that measurements can't give us 100% assurance that the amp is fine and doesn't have other problems. Yet if they are ok then there is a high probability that it is because usually if the amp has problems it can have other issues that will be 'visible'. So if the problem with Amp-23R is real then it's rather nasty one and very selective.

As for software issues - if it was for DAC or an amp that's digital then yes, software may do weird things. But if I'm not wrong, 23R has analogue route of the signal and only the module for remote control of gain pot and switches are digital. That would mean that there might be problems with that and I believe that this is the case for my Enleum (with fast 'volume' up it blocks gain level at about 12 o'clock and can't be lowered). I may talk with a colleague who is a constructor from different forum. He'll know better.

Usually but not always. My Naim power amp showed none of those symptoms at all but I was absolutely convinced “something” was wrong. Upon return to the factory it was discovered to be fried i.e. several components had blown.

Sure, that's why I wrote 'usually'. There might be issues that aren't typical, but as we are talking about stuff that can be perceived differently by people (because human hearing process has a serious flaw which is that the brain that processes everything can be tricked even by itself) I believe it's not the case here.

I am curious though what was that "something" that you thought is wrong with your Naim.

You have completely missed my point re: weird tastes. My point was that, objectively, I can show that the amp I heard lacked mids. Others either have an amp which does have those mids, which makes the one I had faulty, or, theirs might not have mids but they think it does In which case they have a hearing issue, or, … weird tastes.

I thought now that maybe we should discribe what 'lack of mid range' means for us. Maybe we are talking about quite different things and this is why I think that your way of thinking is too harsh. For me 'lack of mid range' in regards to 23R means that it has less details, less textures with the instruments, it's maybe a bit reserved/recessed, leaner and (for lack of better description) it doesn't make me lost in the music. Maybe you are writing literally about 'lack of midrage'. Then I understand your point of view. If you are referring to something similar to me then I think that you are to harsh about it.

I guess that if I am to persist with my interest in the amp then my choices are

- try another dealer.
- find someone in the North West of England with the Enleum who believes that theirs is working; has the mid range; the large soundstage and the stunning vocals and see if they’d be kind enough to let me listen.

Seams reasonable. Without it we can only make circles :wink:.

It seams that I'll be sending my 23R for service to Enleum (the problem with the pot and gain volume being locked when I go fast to about 12 o'clock). If there is a different problem with the amp or with software then they should notice it. If it'll sound differently when it comes back to me then I'll write about it. I doubt it though.
 
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Sep 1, 2023 at 1:23 PM Post #1,736 of 1,959
A sensible post. Thanks @Zielarz I’m ignoring the other person. Wants a fight to overshadow an interesting discussion.

FWIW I am referring to literal mid range i.e. there is a measurable dip in those frequencies one would normally associate with mid-range. Also a sense that the music lacks any real magic or natural flow absent those things.

As regards the Naim it was literally no more than an intuitive sense that something was “off” and I had ceased to enjoy my music listening.
 
Sep 1, 2023 at 3:52 PM Post #1,739 of 1,959
A sensible post. Thanks @Zielarz I’m ignoring the other person. Wants a fight to overshadow an interesting discussion.

FWIW I am referring to literal mid range i.e. there is a measurable dip in those frequencies one would normally associate with mid-range. Also a sense that the music lacks any real magic or natural flow absent those things.

As regards the Naim it was literally no more than an intuitive sense that something was “off” and I had ceased to enjoy my music listening.
Which measurements are these? From one of the reviewers? Or you conducted your own?
 

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