[LarsMan]

There is a big difference between lacking and comparatively lacking

Please forgive me my semantic errors.

 

[prismstorm]

For me Susvara was definitely something that improved massively overtime. I think it has something to do with break in of the drivers and changing the cable. I was already thinking about selling it, it was lifeless, flat, muddy and boring. I've noticed that it wasn't responsing to EQ when adding more than 6db bass shelf, and that got me thinking. After a few days running it with +12db bass shelf, and changing the cable in the meantime, it became a totally different set. It's still flat and neutral, but the drivers definitely gave in a bit, macro dynamics and bass came through with force, to a point when I can make it practically as impactful as the TC, which is the bass impact king.

Another breakin episde is with my Cayin HA6a which was noisy at first but over time it became less and less nosisy. It still has a noise floor on sensitive headphones but it's barely noticable now.

But yeah, for many pieces breakin doesn't really change that much.

My Silver Dragon cables for Susvara just shipped and I hope it would bring improvement like you said.

I have also been 'burning-in' my Susvara by continuously playing tracks since I got it 6 days ago, I can't say that I have heard a massive difference so far. Of course I wouldn't know how many hour is needed to hear 'massive improvements', but whatever that's changed is too subtle for me to grasp. I can only count on the OOR stack to transform it next week. What is your experience or history of burning in the Susvara? Right now my unit is lame, weak, underpowered, lean, thin, and has underwhelming bass. I don't want to run drastic EQs so I want to improve it via amp or cable only.

 

[chesebert]

It doesn't take 6 days to burn in HFM, at least not from lame/weak to awesome/weight/full. I have no idea what OOR stack is but your dac and amp are anemic. Does OOR provide at least 2-3w on SE output with low gain setting (3 and below)?

 

[prismstorm]

It doesn't take 6 days to burn in HFM, at least not from lame/weak to awesome/weight/full. I have no idea what OOR stack is but your dac and amp are anemic. Does OOR provide at least 2-3w on SE output with low gain setting (3 and below)?

No, I currently only have Bifrost 2 / Jotenheim 2 stack. I will demo and hopefully purchase OOR stack next week only. I have no clue about whether burn-in for Susvara is real or not, and if so, how many hours it would take and how much improvement there really is. The sound currently is brittle, dry, and lacking body, and yes bass is anemic. I am attributing the subpar sound to my amp not nearly driving the Susvara to their ideal levels. I do not have OOR yet but I do see a +db switch on the unit.

 

[krude]

It doesn't take 6 days to burn in HFM, at least not from lame/weak to awesome/weight/full. I have no idea what OOR stack is but your dac and amp are anemic. Does OOR provide at least 2-3w on SE output with low gain setting (3 and below)?

Oor has 8w per channel into 60 ohms, which is more than many high class speaker amps (60w into 8 ohms more less). Should be enough

 

[chesebert]

Oor has 8w per channel into 60 ohms, which is more than many high class speaker amps (60w into 8 ohms more less). Should be enough

So that's 2W into 60 ohm in SE mode - enough but barely to be honest. Does the power double down with every halfing impedance in SE mode? Balance just adds 6db voltage gain to the output, so I generally calculate suitability based on SE mode.

 

[chesebert]

No, I currently only have Bifrost 2 / Jotenheim 2 stack. I will demo and hopefully purchase OOR stack next week only. I have no clue about whether burn-in for Susvara is real or not, and if so, how many hours it would take and how much improvement there really is. The sound currently is brittlem, dry, and lacking body, and yes bass is anemic. I am attributing the subpar sound to my amp not nearly driving the Susvara to their ideal levels. I do not have OOR yet but I do see a +db switch on the unit.

Burn in is real and the first few days can have audible changes, but you have been playing it for a week now. Whatever improvements after that will be minor TBH.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I'd agree with a few others. I'm not much of a believer in burn-in.. I have always personally believed that it's almost always just a mental adjustment which is attributed to "burn in". It also took me a weeks to get used to the Susvara and to understand it's strong points. I thought it may have been burn in, but eventually realized that it just has a really subtle presentation. Nothing jumps out at you immediately.. but over time things do.

They could also just not be for you lol, but just sharing if helpful.

 

[prismstorm]

I'd agree with a few others. I'm not much of a believer in burn-in.. I have always personally believed that it's almost always just a mental adjustment which is attributed to "burn in". It also took me a weeks to get used to the Susvara and to understand it's strong points. I thought it may have been burn in, but eventually realized that it just has a really subtle presentation. Nothing jumps out at you immediately.. but over time things do.

They could also just not be for you lol, but just sharing if helpful.

So you were impressed by the Susvara but ultimately sold it still, was it because you got the Shangri-La Sr in place of it?

Yes, I have spent almost a week with it, and everything is just too laid-back, vocals are too far away to feel emotional, there are many details but they're too subtle to appreciate easily. Body is also lean to be really engaging.

 

[number1sixerfan]

So you were impressed by the Susvara but ultimately sold it still, was it because you got the Shangri-La Sr in place of it?

Yes, I have spent almost a week with it, and everything is just too laid-back, vocals are too far away to feel emotional, there are many details but they're too subtle to appreciate easily. Body is also lean to be really engaging.

Exactly, only reason I sold it. I was definitely underwhelmed at first.. I would ensure they're at least decently powered and just give it a bit of time. I've never needed a few weeks to have my mind changed like that, but did with the Susvara--prior to the SGL, ended up being the headphones I used most, along with the 009.

 

[krude]

So you were impressed by the Susvara but ultimately sold it still, was it because you got the Shangri-La Sr in place of it?

Yes, I have spent almost a week with it, and everything is just too laid-back, vocals are too far away to feel emotional, there are many details but they're too subtle to appreciate easily. Body is also lean to be really engaging.

I had very similar experiences as you are having. I bought the Susvara, sold it off, then a few months later bought another one when I was forced to upgrade the chain.

There are 2 possibilities here,
1) this set is really not for you, which is possible
2) Susvara is very much like HD800 in that it reacts to the chain A LOT. I don't think I appreciated it quite as much on my first try, and I was running Hugo2 into Cayin HA6a and SMSL SP400. The result was lean, soft and uninspiring. I honestly thought it sounded crap. On my second go I went all out, got Holo May L2 into Oor, GT and HA6a and the silver cable. After 3 months of ownership I can tell you that all of my 3 amps run Susvara no problem. HA6a sweats a bit, but it still manages to pull off impressive sound and Susvara sounds really different from all of those 3 amps. It is a neutral set, but it should be as sharp and as detailed as you like. If you like bass you absolutely need to EQ the low end, but that's true for almost all flagships.

 

[LarsMan]

I'd agree with a few others. I'm not much of a believer in burn-in.. I have always personally believed that it's almost always just a mental adjustment which is attributed to "burn in". It also took me a weeks to get used to the Susvara and to understand it's strong points. I thought it may have been burn in, but eventually realized that it just has a really subtle presentation. Nothing jumps out at you immediately.. but over time things do.

They could also just not be for you lol, but just sharing if helpful.

I dunno. I have had headphones (LSA HP-1 come to mind) that sounded awful out of the box, then I let them run for several days without listening to them, and then give 'em another listen and they sound like different headphones they're so much better, so 'mental adjustment' was not involved. Appreciate your sharing your experience with Susvara, though!

 

[chesebert]

Is burn-in a permitted topic outside the SS forum?
My 2c: 2-3 days for most things, a few days longer for large woofers and big caps. Things mostly settle down after a week, some minor improvement may be heard thereafter but will not change the overall sound quality.
Manufacturer burnin: some manufacturer will burn their equipment in for 1-2 days before shipping just so their customers don't hear the nasties.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I dunno. I have had headphones (LSA HP-1 come to mind) that sounded awful out of the box, then I let them run for several days without listening to them, and then give 'em another listen and they sound like different headphones they're so much better, so 'mental adjustment' was not involved. Appreciate your sharing your experience with Susvara, though!

I think a few days is reasonable for sure. I don't have the expertise to really be able to confirm whether burn in is real or not, but I just don't believe in the long span burn (e.g. 200+ hrs) in requirements that people talk about, I think that's mainly mental. I can only say that for myself and the Susvara, it was definitely me just better understanding them.

 

[TheAttorney]

What material of terminal did you choose and did it make a difference?

I've recently upgraded the connectors on my Toxic SW22 (silver/gold) cable for my HEKse. With the conclusion that the connectors are also very important and well worth getting the best available for that cable. I fitted the connectors myself and, despite my dodgy amateurish soldering skills (using Oyaide silver solder), the SQ differences were obvious from the first few seconds of listening.

My SW22 originally came with own-brand Toxic gold-plated connectors as these were the cheapest. They looked good with a carbon fibre-like finish, but made no claims to any audiophile credentials. When I upgraded from HEK V2 to SE with larger sockets, I replaced the 2.5mm Toxic jacks with 3.5mm ViaBlue gold-plated - a bit more expensive and very well constructed, but still no claims to any audiophile credentials. This was a couple of years ago and I can't remember if I noticed a difference in SQ, which suggests that the difference was not memorable.

More recently, I swapped the connectors for the best I could find. The key audiophile credentials for both AECO and Furutech is that the pins are one piece end to end milled from solid metal; and the core metal is copper rather than nickle/brass/etc. Whether these two factors matter in practice can only be determined by listening.

First I replaced the ViaBlues with AECO Gold plated. I could have chosen rhodium or silver, but went for the allegedly warmer sound of gold plating to see if that tamed the HEKse's slightly forward nature. The AECO's did inded have a slightly warm presentation, but the fundamental benefits were across the board - all the usual cliches. On a practical note, these tiny plugs were a pain for an amateur to solder and I wasn't impressed with the cable strain relief mechanism, but for SQ they were worth the £80 per pair.

Then I replaced the Toxic 6.3mm jack with a Furutech rhodium plated. The SQ improvements were also across the board, but it did follow rhodium's reputation by imparting a more neutral and transparent overall presentation that rather nicely balanced out the AECO's warmer gold presentation. Because there's only one plug to change, it's even better value at £40.

Whilst I could immediately notice the SQ differences, both connectors then suffered from a burn-in period. I've convinced myself that this is not just me getting used to a new presentation - because the sound could flip one day to the next, from say a bright forward presentation to dark subdued and then back again. I felt the gold AECO settled down after about 1 week, and I'm still not sure if the rhodium Furutech has fully settled after 2 weeks. Of course, the longer the period the harder it is to determine what's what, but I've satisfied myself that some of this is due to real burn-in. So when people think they're hearing new headphones burn-in, it may be the headphones themselves, or the cable, or the connectors - I suspect it's a combination of all three.