The long and winding road... to endgame: MSB Premier, Riviera AIC10, HF Susvara.
Feb 18, 2022 at 3:26 AM Post #46 of 195
@tdx i also thought about the naim uniti atom HE before ferrum oor+ hypsos and spring 3 became favourites for me. How close was the naim unit commpared to what you have now?

Lumin U1 mini streamer might be great for your setup as it does dsd upsampling , as i understand spring 3 does handle playing dsd great. If you want to move away from computer, just a tip.
 
Feb 18, 2022 at 7:45 AM Post #47 of 195
The naim was definitely the best all in one I tried. Honestly if I was using easier to drive cans I would've kept it. But the DAC/amp section wasn't as good as separates for the Susvara or even the LCD-5.

I considered the Lumin U1 mini (and the regular one) as I heard it has great SQ. But in the end what stopped me from getting it is that it has a lower bitrate ceiling than what HQplayer can output and the Spring can take. I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the small, cheap(er) Ultrarendu can handle anything HQplayer can throw at it without batting an eye, so I kept it for that reason. If Lumin comes out with a U1 successor that can handle higher bitrates I'll give it a look, as I'm sure the SQ must be better than the Rendu.
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 12:10 AM Post #48 of 195
I have been talking about doing this to many on this forum for awhile now, but due to a couple of setbacks and delays I just only recently got my hands on all the gear I wanted to test and compare. So, now that I've had all this for some time, here are my thoughts on some of the most popular sound gear currently on the market.

Before I start with actual impressions, just a few notes for context:

- I have been in this hobby for close to 10 years and have become really active in the past two (pandemic will do that to you). Before owning the gear I am discussing, I've owned many others, including Meze Empyreans, ZMF Verite Closed, Kennerton Rognir, Hifiman HE100SE, Focal Stellia, along with mainly portable or semi-portable gear (Hiby R8, Ibasso DX300, Shanling M30) and more. Once I got stuck at home though I decided to get more stationary equipment and to try out the best for each. I also demoed a lot of other gear this year before settling on these contenders but it would take too long to get into everything.

- Like many here, I listen to all genres, but mainly rock, acoustic, classical, soundtracks and EDM. Most of my listening is done in Roon and recently HQPlayer. I have all my music stored on an i9 NUC currently connected to a Sonore Ultrarendu for streaming. I am not the most knowledgeable audiophile by far, but I've spent enough time listening to music on different gear that I know very well what I like and why. But please don't expect a very technical review, this will not be one.

- Finally, just wanted to say that this is my way of paying back a little of all the amazing knowledge, insight and advice I got on this wonderful forum, as well as my deep appreciation of all fellow headfiers who helped me along this fabulous journey. A special shout-out to the awesome headfier and dear friend OneEyedHito, who spent so much time giving me tips and also assisted me in getting close to half the gear on this list.

Okay, enough rambling, on with the show.

1A. Hifiman Susvara
This is the one I probably need to talk the least about, since it has been covered so much already. Suffice to say, all the hype is justified, as this is the one headphone that for me does everything right: looks, comfort, durability, and of course sound quality across the whole spectrum. Other HPs might have specific strengths but this one balances all of them beautifully. Sure, the bass could be a smidge stronger, but with the right amp (see below) it can shine there too. It was also, among all HPs I've tried, the one that allowed me to appreciate the differences in my chain the most. Yes, it's not cheap (don't pay retail though!) and yes it needs very good amplification. But it rewards you with the best sound for all music genre in my opinion, except maybe the 1266 which admittedly I have not tried.

1B. Audeze LCD-5
It's a great headphone, and if I didn't own the Susvara I would probably choose this to keep. The comfort and looks are slightly better (even with the clamping which is real but manageable) and the sound is very well rounded. It has presence, bite. resolution like crazy and a nicely shaped soundstage. It's also easier to drive than the Susvara, and it trades blows when it comes to pure enjoyment, especially with harder hitting music like rock or EDM. One thing that didn't really do it for me though is that it works better with certain music genres than others. Music that calls for fast attack and slam will shine on this, but then music that needs a more laid back approach will still feel very strong so there's not as much modulation in the sound (to my ears at least).

1C. Susvara vs LCD-5
I really wanted to prefer the LCD-5. It's a great HP and while not cheaper than the Susvara at street pricing, it would need less amplification so less $$. But try as I might I couldn't get it to sound as effortless and emotional especially for orchestral and acoustic. Music sometimes had a bit more presence and the bass was definitely stronger on the Audeze, but I felt as if the music was presented to me rather than the sensation of losing myself in it that I have with the Susvara. Also, while easier to drive, the LCD-5 still benefited from better amps and DACs so knowing myself I would have still spent as much as I would on the Susvara chain. But still, as much as I prefer the Susvara, I can say that on one will ever regret owning an LCD-5.

2A. Enleum 23r
This amp is really, really something special. It absolutely shines with hard to drive cans like the Susvara, but it also gives you all the control and power you could want for any other HP. Even though I didn't try it, I heard it's also amazing with speakers. It's built like a tank (the extra feet def are nice too) and while I was using it I always felt that I was getting the absolute best rendition of my music, no matter the genre. The soundstage is as wide as can be, the resolution, timbre and layering are perfect, and as I was saying before, it's the one amp that remedied any issues the Susvara could have with bass. It basically makes any can, DAC and piece of music shine, and I could not find a single fault with it.

2B. Ferrum Oor + Hypsos
This is another very special amp, provided you use it with the Hypsos power supply which definitely adds a considerable amount of precision and body to its sound. It is one of the most neutral and effortless amps I've heard, and has this ability to make itself invisible in the sound chain while at the same time getting the most out of each component. The one sound quality that is always evident is a sense of refinement, especially in the upper registers, that allows music to really breathe and occupy the correct space in the soundstage. Without the Hyspos it's nice but not as good as other amps. With the Hypsos it really sings and it gets everything important about music just right.

2C: Oor vs Enleum
This was the most difficult choice of this comparison. I went back and forth so many times between the two, and could really not choose a winner easily. After using them for many weeks though, I would have to give the tiniest edge to the Enleum as far as rendering bass and having a slightly wider soundstage. If the prices were the same I would probably have kept the Enleum for those reasons, but they were not.

3A. Holo Spring 3 KTE
I know this has been written before, but whoever said that all DACs sound the same has not listened to the DACs like the Holo. I almost went for the May but most users seem to agree the Spring is very close for half the price, so the Spring it was. I was immediately impressed by the natural dimension that music acquires with this DAC. Everything sounds just... right. It's also a great DAC for soundstage, timbre, and lower register impact. And the cherry on the top is pairing it with HQPlayer. Roon already sounds awesome on it, but when HQplayer is used to upsample music or convert to DSD, well let's just say interesting things happen. Combined with the beautiful case construction, the awesome preamp module and the perfect USB implementation, this is a special DAC in more ways than one.

3B. Rockna Wavelight
Another pearl of a DAC. I had a Naim Uniti Atom before this and I thought I was getting really good sonic results (it's still an amazing machine for what it offers). But once I got the Wavelight all my music went up several notches and I finally got what I was missing. Like the Spring it also has a massive but natural soundstage, pinpoint instrument precision and a refined but never boring quality, that just allows the listener to be immersed in the music. Construction is also stellar and it too has a great preamp section. The one slight knock is that the input bitrate is capped at 384 PCM and 512 DSD so I couldn't experiment with it like I did with the Spring and HQplayer. But then again the internal upsampling filters are so good on this that it kind of makes up for it.

3C. Wavelight vs Spring
Maybe I should rephrase what I said before about all DACs not sounding the same. Cheap DACs and pricier DACs definitely do not sound the same, however after a certain price point DACs don't sound bad, just different. This is the case of the Wavelight and the Spring. With either of them, I never for one moment felt as if something was lacking vs the other, just that they gave me an equally superb but slightly different presentation of audio. The Wavelight was slightly more ethereal and laid back, the Spring somewhat more assertive and present. But I'm talking minute differences here, just like the Enelum and the Oor.

Conclusion: There can be only one! (of each)
Ok so time to wrap this up, I could go into much more detail for each but then this post would become unmanageably long. I am happy to give more specific info to anyone who wants to know, just reply to this thread or send me a PM. So, with all that said in the end, I will be keeping the Susvara, the Ferrum Oor and the Holo Spring. Again there was absolutely nothing wrong with the other gear, but when it came time to choose the Susvara sounded better for my preferences, the Oor was very close to the Enleum for roughly half the price and the as for the Spring, it allows me to enjoy music now but also change it up in the future when better upsampling algorithms come along. Taken all together it's not an inexpensive chain by any means, but it's also not the craziest gear, and I feel like I've reached an extremely nice level of sound enjoyment and I'll be content for a long time to come. Now of course, more and potentially better gear will come along and might make me rethink this but that's the Head-Fi world right? Or, like Omar would say in the Wire, “All in the game yo, all in the game.”

Thanks for the detailed sharing, I am in a similar situation so it's very relatable and useful, but would like to seek your further opinion.

I just got a pair of Susvaras, and I am only beginning my headphone journey, so all I have now is a humble Bifrost 2 / Jotenheim 2 rig, and as confirmed in the Susvara thread already, the Jot 2 is insufficient to drive the Susvara to any satisfactory level. I did some research, read a few reviews, and also came across your post. I find that the following three amps can drive Susvara and have good synergy with them:

1) Flux Labs Acoustics Volot
2) Ferrum OOR + Hypsos PS
3) Enleum AMP-23R


At 60Ohms, Flux Volot seems to have slightly more power than Ferrum, but where I am located it is only available on Flux's website and it is on backorder. The Enleum option is twice as much as Ferrum at around USD5500, and the website is excruciatingly slow so I haven't been able to take a look or order. This leaves me with the Ferrum OOR and Hypsos. I have booked an appointment at a local dealer that carries it to demo it a few days from now. Do you think in this situation I should gravitate towards the Ferrum OOR? I do not want to mess up again, I need an amp that is confirmed to work brilliantly with Susvara. Of course I've heard the OOR works well with other headphones such as LCD-5 and Elite as well, so that's a bonus as I am also looking to purchase those down the line. Or do you suggest me keep saving for the Enleum, or wait for the Volot to be back in stock? I am looking for large, powerful sound that is impactful and not bright or analytical.

I like warm, intimate, impactful sound, but I am finding Susvara too laid-back with wimpy quantity of bass that does not hit with any authority. I am hoping acquiring one of the above amps will solve my woes. Thanks in advance.
 
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Feb 24, 2022 at 1:40 AM Post #49 of 195
Thanks for the detailed sharing, I am in a similar situation so it's very relatable and useful, but would like to seek your further opinion.

I just got a pair of Susvaras, and I am only beginning my headphone journey, so all I have now is a humble Bifrost 2 / Jotenheim 2 rig, and as confirmed in the Susvara thread already, the Jot 2 is insufficient to drive the Susvara to any satisfactory level. I did some research, read a few reviews, and also came across your post. I find that the following three amps can drive Susvara and have good synergy with them:

1) Flux Labs Acoustics Volot
2) Ferrum OOR + Hypsos PS
3) Enleum AMP-23R


At 60Ohms, Flux Volot seems to have slightly more power than Ferrum, but where I am located it is only available on Flux's website and it is on backorder. The Enleum option is twice as much as Ferrum at around USD5500, and the website is excruciatingly slow so I haven't been able to take a look or order. This leaves me with the Ferrum OOR and Hypsos. I have booked an appointment at a local dealer that carries it to demo it a few days from now. Do you think in this situation I should gravitate towards the Ferrum OOR? I do not want to mess up again, I need an amp that is confirmed to work brilliantly with Susvara. Of course I've heard the OOR works well with other headphones such as LCD-5 and Elite as well, so that's a bonus as I am also looking to purchase those down the line. Or do you suggest me keep saving for the Enleum, or wait for the Volot to be back in stock? I am looking for large, powerful sound that is impactful and not bright or analytical.

I like warm, intimate, impactful sound, but I am finding Susvara too laid-back with wimpy quantity of bass that does not hit with any authority. I am hoping acquiring one of the above amps will solve my woes. Thanks in advance.
Oor + Hypsos will not dissapoint you if you like warm detailed and punchy sound. Run it in balanced. If you want Susvara to be more visceral you may benefit from a silver cable. I got the Lavricables Grand and it transformed Susvara for me.
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 2:42 AM Post #50 of 195
Oor + Hypsos will not dissapoint you if you like warm detailed and punchy sound. Run it in balanced. If you want Susvara to be more visceral you may benefit from a silver cable. I got the Lavricables Grand and it transformed Susvara for me.
Thanks, I see that you have Ferrum Oor + Hypsos as well as Susvara. I will run balanced XLR from Bifrost 2 into OOR and use the XLR output for my Susvara. I have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon Cable incoming as well. Have you tried a copper cable for the Susvara, does a silver cable result in excessive brightness? Lastly, did you face the decision of choosing between Flux Volot and Enleum 23R?
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 2:45 AM Post #51 of 195
Thanks, I see that you have Ferrum Oor + Hypsos as well as Susvara. I will run balanced XLR from Bifrost 2 into OOR and use the XLR output for my Susvara. I have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon Cable incoming as well. Have you tried a copper cable for the Susvara, does a silver cable result in excessive brightness? Lastly, did you face the decision of choosing between Flux Volot and Enleum 23R?
Cable change for me was a big step up. Was choosing between GT Oor and Volot. Ended up with GT and Oor. I gravitate towards Oor, but GT is still a really good amp. Didn't have a chance to audition 23r or Volot unfortunately.

Also with pieces of this caliber you really need to spend signifficant time with them. It's no longer a midfi to hifi upgrade, it's more about fine details and discovering personal preferences. Both take time.
 
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Feb 24, 2022 at 2:52 AM Post #52 of 195
Cable change for me was a big step up. Was choosing between GT Oor and Volot. Ended up with GT and Oor. I gravitate towards Oor, but GT is still a really good amp. Didn't have a chance to audition 23r or Volot unfortunately.

Also with pieces of this caliber you really need to spend signifficant time with them. It's no longer a midfi to hifi upgrade, it's more about fine details and discovering personal preferences. Both take time.
Is it this one? https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-silver-hifiman-susvara-he1000-edition-x-upgrade-cable/
What material of terminal did you choose and did it make a difference?

I am having no bass with Susvara now, so my first priority is to get them running balanced out of OOR, I reckon that would improve it the most. Then I will sort out my DAC and cables. Thanks for the assurance that OOR works with Susvara.
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 2:58 AM Post #53 of 195
Is it this one? https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-silver-hifiman-susvara-he1000-edition-x-upgrade-cable/
What material of terminal did you choose and did it make a difference?

I am having no bass with Susvara now, so my first priority is to get them running balanced out of OOR, I reckon that would improve it the most. Then I will sort out my DAC and cables. Thanks for the assurance that OOR works with Susvara.
I took Aeco Rhodium 4 pin XLR. In my case it sounds like a different headphone. A lot sharper and more extended. I've heard that not everyone likes that, but for me it was a bigger improvement than I was hoping for.

Re bass you need at least +6db bass shelf for Susvara imo if you like bass. It is a very neutral headphone stock but it can certainly do bass very well.
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 8:05 AM Post #54 of 195
Thanks for the detailed sharing, I am in a similar situation so it's very relatable and useful, but would like to seek your further opinion.

I just got a pair of Susvaras, and I am only beginning my headphone journey, so all I have now is a humble Bifrost 2 / Jotenheim 2 rig, and as confirmed in the Susvara thread already, the Jot 2 is insufficient to drive the Susvara to any satisfactory level. I did some research, read a few reviews, and also came across your post. I find that the following three amps can drive Susvara and have good synergy with them:

1) Flux Labs Acoustics Volot
2) Ferrum OOR + Hypsos PS
3) Enleum AMP-23R
Others have replied to your question with very valid points, I'll just add my 2 cents: All three of these are perfect for the Susvaras. I have not heard the Volot but I have no reason to believe it will underperform, it's the biggest and baddest amp of the three (something you might want to take into account, re placement, heat, etc). The Oor/Hypsos sounds amazing with the Susvara, super detailed and articulate sound, nothing is missing. And the Enleum is even a bit better, with the same technical performance but more impact, emotion and musicality (but for more $$ of course). I see the Burson GT gets mentioned too, I tried and, if you're on a budget, it's a great choice, it too will not hold back the Susvara in any way. It's just that, compared to the others, it is not at the same level (resolution, timbre, fullness of notes). But a valid choice nonetheless.
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 8:23 AM Post #55 of 195
Others have replied to your question with very valid points, I'll just add my 2 cents: All three of these are perfect for the Susvaras. I have not heard the Volot but I have no reason to believe it will underperform, it's the biggest and baddest amp of the three (something you might want to take into account, re placement, heat, etc). The Oor/Hypsos sounds amazing with the Susvara, super detailed and articulate sound, nothing is missing. And the Enleum is even a bit better, with the same technical performance but more impact, emotion and musicality (but for more $$ of course). I see the Burson GT gets mentioned too, I tried and, if you're on a budget, it's a great choice, it too will not hold back the Susvara in any way. It's just that, compared to the others, it is not at the same level (resolution, timbre, fullness of notes). But a valid choice nonetheless.
Thanks, I will demo the Oor/Hypsos with my Susvara next week and report back :beerchug:

Where I am I have no access to any Volot or Enleum, meaning the Volot has to be bought blind and it is currently backordered with no word on when it might become available again. Enleum sounds a bit better, but it costs much more than the Oor/Hpsos, leaving the latter a sweet spot! :ksc75smile:
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 8:25 AM Post #56 of 195
Thanks, I will demo the Oor/Hypsos with my Susvara next week and report back :beerchug:

Where I am I have no access to any Volot or Enleum, meaning the Volot has to be bought blind and it is currently backordered with no word on when it might become available again. Enleum sounds a bit better, but it costs much more than the Oor/Hpsos, leaving the latter a sweet spot! :ksc75smile:
Having owned both for a long time I can guarantee you're not downgrading by going for the Oor. It's an amazing little amp...
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 9:37 AM Post #57 of 195
Having owned both for a long time I can guarantee you're not downgrading by going for the Oor. It's an amazing little amp...
Out of curiosity, did you buy all the gear (Susvara, LCD-5, Holo Spring, OOR, Enleum) before demoing and then decided to sell the rest and end up with only one chain? That's quite the conviction man :sweat_smile:

Yes since in your original post you said Oor was very close to the Enleum for roughly half the price, I have now set my eyes on that, with the hope that it will finally fix my Susvara's leanness and lack of body, bass impact. In the event of that failing, I will have to surrender and move on to Meze Elite or LCD-5 for a punchier sound. So yes quite a lot resting on the OOR / Hypsos salvaging the current disaster ...
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 9:41 AM Post #58 of 195
Out of curiosity, did you buy all the gear (Susvara, LCD-5, Holo Spring, OOR, Enleum) before demoing and then decided to sell the rest and end up with only one chain? That's quite the conviction man :sweat_smile:

Yes since in your original post you said Oor was very close to the Enleum for roughly half the price, I have now set my eyes on that, with the hope that it will finally fix my Susvara's leanness and lack of body, bass impact. In the event of that failing, I will have to surrender and move on to Meze Elite or LCD-5 for a punchier sound. So yes a lot of resting on the OOR / Hypsos salvaging the current disaster ...
Yes I did buy everything but either bought used from here or from dealers that gave me heavy discounts. The Oor will definitely liven up the bass on the Susvara, although as many have said the Susvara is not a bass heavy HP. But for my tastes it has more than enough, especially with the Oor. To give you a point of reference, I thought it sounded really bad out out of the Matrix Mini Pro, then better out of the A90, then better still out of the Naim Atom and finally when I got the Suvara/Enleum I was like "Oh ok THAT's how it's supposed to sound like!"
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 9:48 AM Post #59 of 195
Buy a HD650 and come back after a year after you have figured out what you like and don’t like and what sound signature you are going after. Also gives you time to get better electronics. Jumping from one expensive cans to another is a waste of time and money. Good luck.
 
Feb 24, 2022 at 9:51 AM Post #60 of 195
I took Aeco Rhodium 4 pin XLR. In my case it sounds like a different headphone. A lot sharper and more extended. I've heard that not everyone likes that, but for me it was a bigger improvement than I was hoping for.

Re bass you need at least +6db bass shelf for Susvara imo if you like bass. It is a very neutral headphone stock but it can certainly do bass very well.
I hope my Moon Audio Silver Dragon will have some of the effect that your Lavricables did and that it's not too bright a sound. I'm sensitive to treble. I've also ordered the Black Dragon in tandem in case the silver is gets too bright for my taste. Have you considered upgrading to the Danacables Lazuli Nirvana or Reference for your Susvara?
Yes I did buy everything but either bought used from here or from dealers that gave me heavy discounts. The Oor will definitely liven up the bass on the Susvara, although as many have said the Susvara is not a bass heavy HP. But for my tastes it has more than enough, especially with the Oor. To give you a point of reference, I thought it sounded really bad out out of the Matrix Mini Pro, then better out of the A90, then better still out of the Naim Atom and finally when I got the Suvara/Enleum I was like "Oh ok THAT's how it's supposed to sound like!"
Damn, I guess I'll have to take it one at a time. So Oor/Hypsos first. Although you are also making Enleum sound attractive and it's dangerous for my financial health lol.

One question: I see strangely that the Enleum doesn't have a 4-pin XLR output on the front. Is it only single ended 6.3mm and cannot go balanced? That is a fatal flaw for me if that, since I am planning to run the whole chain balanced.
 

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