[jlbrach]

all of that is true but has nothing to do with achieving some sort of nirvana that would justify a large jump in price...

 

[Ciggavelli]

What if we really have reached the pinnacle? If so, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, my wallet likes the idea. On the other hand, I still crave better sound.

If we can’t increase resolution anymore, I guess that is almost ok. If we can’t increase bass anymore, I guess that’s okay. If we can’t increase transient speed anymore, okay. What we don’t have is a combo of all three in one pair of headphones. And we don’t have that hypothetical amalgam that can be driven easily. And we don’t have that combo with utmost fit and comfort.

So, maybe headphones can’t get more detailed, can’t have stronger bass quantity or quality, and can’t get faster. However, headphones can be improved by combining the best of those qualities in one pair of headphones that are comfortable and easy to drive. I’d personally pay over current TOTL prices if that pair of headphones was to exist.

 

[PhazeCrive]

What if we really have reached the pinnacle? If so, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, my wallet likes the idea. On the other hand, I still crave better sound.

If we can’t increase resolution anymore, I guess that is almost ok. If we can’t increase bass anymore, I guess that’s okay. If we can’t increase transient speed anymore, okay. What we don’t have is a combo of all three in one pair of headphones. And we don’t have that hypothetical amalgam that can be driven easily. And we don’t have that combo with utmost fit and comfort.

So, maybe headphones can’t get more detailed, can’t have stronger bass quantity or quality, and can’t get faster. However, headphones can be improved by combining the best of those qualities in one pair of headphones that are comfortable and easy to drive. I’d personally pay over current TOTL prices if that pair of headphones was to exist.

Don't forget about the tradeoffs. When you check one box, you sacrifice checking off other boxes. It's kinda why the LCD5 is sounding the way it does cuz of the physical properties of that driver. EQ corrects those limitations of the driver. Maybe EQ is the secret endgame.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Don't forget about the tradeoffs. When you check one box, you sacrifice checking off other boxes. It's kinda why the LCD5 is sounding the way it does cuz of the physical properties of that driver. EQ corrects those limitations of the driver. Maybe EQ is the secret endgame.

I’ve thought about IEMs, which I have only a little bit of experience with. They combine different types of drivers. For example I had the Noble Audio Khan which had three different driver types. One was electrostatic and the other 2 were more traditional. Anyway, it had electrostatic speed and amazing bass with a good seal. The comfort was a problem and the soundstage could have been larger with better imagining, but it was able to combine speed with bass. Why can’t the same thing occur with traditional headphones? Maybe they can combine different drivers in the same pair of headphones?

 

[number1sixerfan]

Technology will always prevail (this has been proven historically in this hobby over and over again). TOTL headphones will certainly improve eventually, just not overnight. At the $2-5k or so street price range, I don't anticipate we'll see substantial gains over say the TC/Susvara/Sr1a/009 for quite some time. Just different flavors with possibly, incremental improvement here and there.

The SGL already improves upon a lot of what all of those do imho (although not astronomical leaps), but assuming the HE-1 likely does as well.. and still would love to hear the Valkyrie. Although at an ultra premium price and not ridiculously huge performance gains, these definitely signal that we're certainly not a ceiling. Someone will find the right tech improvement to scalability/price ratio and performance will increase as always, again just slowly. Sure, the improvement at that level doesn't just totally trump the TOTL in the more affordable category I mentioned, but that's irrelevant as price to performance isn't a linear relationship in Summit Fi (and the higher up you go, the higher the premium for incremental gain). So the same could be said for the TC, Susvara, etc compared to lower category TOTL headphones (Utopia, VC and even lower, etc) as well.

 

[PhazeCrive]

I’ve thought about IEMs, which I have only a little bit of experience with. They combine different types of drivers. For example I had the Noble Audio Khan which had three different driver types. One was electrostatic and the other 2 were more traditional. Anyway, it had electrostatic speed and amazing bass with a good seal. The comfort was a problem and the soundstage could have been larger with better imagining, but it was able to combine speed with bass. Why can’t the same thing occur with traditional headphones? Maybe they can combine different drivers in the same pair of headphones?

Yeah, I put a lengthy comment on one of Abyss's videos saying that I do see the benefit of multiple drivers in a headphone. Of course there will be problems like phase distortion and overlapping frequency bands, the space and weight of the crossovers, but it's not impossible to remedy. It's just no one wants to sit down for years and figure it out AND then see how it all sounds in a headphone frame that has resonances and sounds of its own. Having multiple different drivers sound the same would be a new challenege altogether. Electrostat sounds like an electrostat, and dynamic driver sounds like a dynamic. Putting them together in a headphone and making them seem "as one" could be a stretch. It may be easier to use multiple types of the same driver instead so that one driver isn't overtasked with the full frequency spectrum, yet would sound much the same together.

IEMs also have that bone coduction driver thing going for them which allows for hearing above 20khz, actually. Dare I say endgame there. XD The eardrum is too stiff to respond to frequencies above 20khz. Having a 100khz estat isn't really going to do anything if it can't move your eardrum at all. But a bone conductor would let you hear that.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Yeah, I put a lengthy comment on one of Abyss's videos saying that I do see the benefit of multiple drivers in a headphone. Of course there will be problems like phase distortion and overlapping frequency bands, the space and weight of the crossovers, but it's not impossible to remedy. It's just no one wants to sit down for years and figure it out AND then see how it all sounds in a headphone frame that has resonances and sounds of its own. Having multiple different drivers sound the same would be a new challenege altogether. Electrostat sounds like an electrostat, and dynamic driver sounds like a dynamic. Putting them together in a headphone and making them seem "as one" could be a stretch. It may be easier to use multiple types of the same driver instead so that one driver isn't overtasked with the full frequency spectrum, yet would sound much the same together.

IEMs also have that bone coduction driver thing going for them which allows for hearing above 20khz, actually. Dare I say endgame there. XD The eardrum is too stiff to respond to frequencies above 20khz. Having a 100khz estat isn't really going to do anything if it can't move your eardrum at all. But a bone conductor would let you hear that.

Maybe I need to look into IEMs again and figure out how to get better fit or maybe go with a CIEM. I will do some research. I know some IEMs are like $6K now, so maybe there have been advancements since I had the Noble Audio Khan that warrant that crazy price. It’s gotta be comfortable though. I could only wear the Khan’s for like an hour before they became too uncomfortable to keep in.

 

[PhazeCrive]

Ah yes, can't wait for the quinbrid 10k iem flagship.

 

[Axel]

Technology will always prevail (this has been proven historically in this hobby over and over again).

Someone will find the right tech improvement to scalability/price ratio and performance will increase as always, again just slowly.

Sure, technology gives you better software and precision tools, but does technology provide better sound? I’m not sure.

See the Orpheus system, which was released 30 years ago. Was it really surprassed sound-wise? Has technology made better sounding e-stats? Or the Stax Omega that people swear upon (haven’t heard it).
Is the HD800 better sounding than the HD650? Yes, it’s more detailed and with a bigger soundstage, but does it sound better? I’m not sure.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Sure, technology gives you better software and precision tools, but does technology provide better sound? I’m not sure.

See the Orpheus system, which was released 30 years ago. Was it really surprassed sound-wise? Has technology made better sounding e-stats? Or the Stax Omega that people swear upon (haven’t heard it).
Is the HD800 better sounding than the HD650? Yes, it’s more detailed and with a bigger soundstage, but does it sound better? I’m not sure.

I would say the sound is easily better across the board, now compared to then. And the HD800 to HD650 comparison is a great example. The HD800 is easily better technically and overall, when no one at the time thought the HD600/650 could be bested (again, for that generally affordable price range at the time). Yet to some people that won't be the case, it's still all subjective to a degree. And now the HD800 imho pales in comparison to anything TOTL (in a generally affordable range) now. I've had them alongside the TC/Susvara, each quite a bit better.. over time technology always wins. Pricing trends however, are the real question.

As far as the Orpheus, that was a premium product that will easily stand the test of time better than others due to being more advanced at their time of release. There are a few others similar in that regard. But most of them from that time are outclassed in many aspects now, although still nostalgic for many of us. (MDR-R10, Qualia, L3000, K1000, etc)

 

[Arion128]

Unboxing of a Lite Abyss 1266

 

[ken6217]

I’ve thought about IEMs, which I have only a little bit of experience with. They combine different types of drivers. For example I had the Noble Audio Khan which had three different driver types. One was electrostatic and the other 2 were more traditional. Anyway, it had electrostatic speed and amazing bass with a good seal. The comfort was a problem and the soundstage could have been larger with better imagining, but it was able to combine speed with bass. Why can’t the same thing occur with traditional headphones? Maybe they can combine different drivers in the same pair of headphones?

Are yours Universal or custom? Unless you have custom it’s very difficult to have a good fit, and a good seal, and everything else sound wise that goes along with that. I was found that noble was overrated. At least for me.

I have 64 Audio A12 and could make a case that it’s as good as the TC but in a different form. I’ve spent three hours a day round-trip on a train to and from New Jersey into New York for work and that’s what I’ve used.

 

[saudio7]

Just quick question regarding burnin of TC, how long it takes and if anyone can describe changes if any?

 

[WafflesID]

Just quick question regarding burnin of TC, how long it takes and if anyone can describe changes if any?

*raises hands emphatically*

For me it was drastic. Especially if you're treble sensitive. 3 days MINIMUM of just 24/7 loop of music. 5 days if you can stand staring at them without listening to them.

First 3 days I was getting this horrible harshness and this weird sound that i can only describe like if you cup your hands over your ears and talk or talk through a paper towel tube. kinda. some songs it wasn't as pronounced, so I got really really nervous that it was either just the way the headphones were or it was something with my gear.

 

[DJJEZ]

The treble smoothen'd out and bass got way better compared to day one. I left mine burning in 24/7 till I reached 300 hours, so around 12 days lol