[Hutnicks]

Quote:

The LCD3's sensitive with amplification? Yes but not by a lot compared to its older brother. I wouldn't exactly agree the LCD2's playing nice with basically everything either and the LCD2 rev.1's are little less forgiving with amplification than the rev.2's. For example, on most tube amp's I've tried, DIY or even popular off-shelf stuff from Woo, Darkvoice amp's etc, the LCD2's just don't sound as good when fed with good clean neutral or bright but powerful solid state power. The LCD2's and 3's I can also say is one headphone that you don't want anything such as an amp too coloured sounding as this seriously bloats up the sound from these headphones, you want an amp with plenty of power to deliver clean power, amplifying the strong points of headphone itself, the LCD2's and 3's without reference to FR graphs and CSD plots are anything but neutral, some aspects of the sound is neutral this I agree, but it is far from being completely neutral and this includes the infamous Audeze bass response as well. 
 
Regardless of both, none of the two mentioned headphones require finicky amplification that the HD800's do.
 
For $5.5k you should be damned impressed at this price-point and there is no excuse for this whatsoever. Judging from what I've read and seen, these are good but not $5.5k good. That crown belongs to the SR-009.

Well I'm hearing everything from they are better than the 009, they cannot run with the 800's they are better than the LCD's, they are not on par with the LCD's. So when all is said and done there is so much conflicting information that in essence there is no information at all.
 
It would seem it's every man for himself here, and this man chooses to keep the 5.5 grand in the bank.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

The LCD3's sensitive with amplification? Yes but not by a lot compared to its older brother. I wouldn't exactly agree the LCD2's playing nice with basically everything either and the LCD2 rev.1's are little less forgiving with amplification than the rev.2's. For example, on most tube amp's I've tried, DIY or even popular off-shelf stuff from Woo, Darkvoice amp's etc, the LCD2's just don't sound as good when fed with good clean neutral or bright but powerful solid state power. The LCD2's and 3's I can also say is one headphone that you don't want anything such as an amp too coloured sounding as this seriously bloats up the sound from these headphones, you want an amp with plenty of power to deliver clean power, amplifying the strong points of headphone itself, the LCD2's and 3's without reference to FR graphs and CSD plots are anything but neutral, some aspects of the sound is neutral this I agree, but it is far from being completely neutral and this includes the infamous Audeze bass response as well. 
 
Regardless of both, none of the two mentioned headphones require finicky amplification that the HD800's do.
 
For $5.5k you should be damned impressed at this price-point and there is no excuse for this whatsoever. Judging from what I've read and seen, these are good but not $5.5k good. That crown belongs to the SR-009.

It is absolutely sensitive by a good margin over the LCD-2s. I've owned them since release date and have tried many amps with them. Sorry I can't agree here. Have you tried the WA22 with about $1k of upgraded tubes, Liquid Fire with a quad of Siemens tubes, GS-X (w/ upgraded Dynalo+ modules) and GS-X MKII (really the same as the GS-X with upgraded Dynalo+ modules)? I have and have done the same with the HD800s for about 1.5 years all here at home over many many months. This is simply not true based on my experiences. What "tube amps and DIY amps" have you heard them with? Could be that none were up to par for them and you haven't heard them at their best. I agree that the LCD-3s aren't as finicky as the HD800s (but what is?), but they are a darn much more difficult and sensitive than the LCD-2s (either revision...which I've owned and published reviews on). 
 
I happen to own the SR-009s and completely agree with your comments on them...they are spectacular and worth the price of admission. They are that darn good. Now with the Abyss, I'd love to see some measurements too.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

Well I'm hearing everything from they are better than the 009, they cannot run with the 800's they are better than the LCD's, they are not on par with the LCD's. So when all is said and done there is so much conflicting information that in essence there is no information at all.
 
It would seem it's every man for himself here, and this man chooses to keep the 5.5 grand in the bank.

I know that's why I need to go hear these things for myself because I've owned/heard all the other mentioned flagships so far this way I can come to a final honest decision of how well these things are. Before OP heard these on the Cavali amp, the Abyss was no match for the HD800's neutrality but still better than the LCD3's fun intimate sound (these are both very different sounding headphones is what I've so far gathered). Skip few weeks, OP hears the AB's again on the Cavali amp and so far OP claims these are still better than the LCD3's but closer almost neck to neck with the HD800 performance because both seem to be aiming for the neutral sound, OP also claims these are the best ortho to date in his "imo". 
 
Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well). 
 
I know MacodonianHero prefer's the Audeze's to the Hifiman range (perhaps bad amp/source combination of the time speaking or just preference for sound for the Audeze lineup), but I can suggest from what I've read from a few TOTL gear owner's in the Summit-Fi section that a very well powered HE-6 is about the only ortho at this time to come close to the SR-009 detail retrieval, clarity and neutrality. Everyone needs to have this in a comparison against the Abyss (or the Abyss running off speaker taps) then determine which is best so far.
 
But A2A's 30-40minute audition time for these and lack of other serious TOTL gear makes this episode of "down-under" comparison between the orthos is really _______ <fill in blank with crap/bad synonym slang terms>

 

[MacedonianHero]

I know that's why I need to go hear these things for myself because I've owned/heard all the other mentioned flagships so far this way I can come to a final honest decision of how well these things are. Before OP heard these on the Cavali amp, the Abyss was no match for the HD800's neutrality but still better than the LCD3's fun intimate sound (these are both very different sounding headphones is what I've so far gathered). Skip few weeks, OP hears the AB's again on the Cavali amp and so far OP claims these are still better than the LCD3's but closer almost neck to neck with the HD800 performance because both seem to be aiming for the neutral sound, OP also claims these are the best ortho to date in his "imo". 

Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well). 

I know MacodonianHero prefer's the Audeze's to the Hifiman range (perhaps bad amp/source combination of the time speaking or just preference for sound for the Audeze lineup), but I can suggest from what I've read from a few TOTL gear owner's in the Summit-Fi section that a very well powered HE-6 is about the only ortho at this time to come close to the SR-009 detail retrieval, clarity and neutrality. Everyone needs to have this in a comparison against the Abyss (or the Abyss running off speaker taps) then determine which is best so far.

But A2A's 30-40minute audition time for these and lack of other serious TOTL gear makes this episode of "down-under" comparison between the orthos is really _______

For the record, I've heard the he6s (which I like very much) on a few really nice DACS (Cary XCiter DAC, Bryston BDA1 and the Wyred4Sound DAC2) and with regards to amps, my buddy's Pioneer SX980 vintage speaker amp and my brother's outstanding McIntosh amp (along with many headphone amps). The LCD3s are better to my ears so I eventually sold off my HE6s.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

The LCD3s are better to my ears do I sold off my HE6s.

Yep and that is why I mentioned it so nobody else would come in here and start a flame war of HE-6 owning LCD3 or whatever. Not like there is anything wrong with preferring the LCD3's over the HE-6. I like both too, but I just like the meatier sound of the HE-6 more when I had it on a pair of Raysonic M100 monoblocks.

 

[Hutnicks]

Quote:

I know that's why I need to go hear these things for myself because I've owned/heard all the other mentioned flagships so far this way I can come to a final honest decision of how well these things are. Before OP heard these on the Cavali amp, the Abyss was no match for the HD800's neutrality but still better than the LCD3's fun intimate sound (these are both very different sounding headphones is what I've so far gathered). Skip few weeks, OP hears the AB's again on the Cavali amp and so far OP claims these are still better than the LCD3's but closer almost neck to neck with the HD800 performance because both seem to be aiming for the neutral sound, OP also claims these are the best ortho to date in his "imo". 
 
Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well). 
 
I know MacodonianHero prefer's the Audeze's to the Hifiman range (perhaps bad amp/source combination of the time speaking or just preference for sound for the Audeze lineup), but I can suggest from what I've read from a few TOTL gear owner's in the Summit-Fi section that a very well powered HE-6 is about the only ortho at this time to come close to the SR-009 detail retrieval, clarity and neutrality. Everyone needs to have this in a comparison against the Abyss (or the Abyss running off speaker taps) then determine which is best so far.
 
But A2A's 30-40minute audition time for these and lack of other serious TOTL gear makes this episode of "down-under" comparison between the orthos is really _______ <fill in blank with crap/bad synonym slang terms>

Ok my big issue with "TOTL" reviews of headphones is precisely this. It is never a review of a headphone but rather a headphone system. By this I mean the entire playback system is being reviewed and much as one would not think of trying to separate a 009 from it's amp, I believe we need to start looking at the entire picture as the performance you are going to experience with "your" system is likely as not  to have no resemblance to the system tested.
 
I would personally be much happier if the reviewers tested with some POS amp that anyone could lay their hands on so a least we would have a minimum reference which could be repeated.
 
Just what in fact are we hearing reviewed these days. A playback chain, or a single component?

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

I would personally be much happier if the reviewers tested with some POS amp that anyone could lay their hands on so a least we would have a minimum reference which could be repeated.

This ^

 

[Joe Skubinski]

How would that better differentiate between a good set of headphones, and a great set?

 

[etherlite]

IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps
 
In extreme example, it's like reviewing HE-6 using dacport LX & schiit asgard, and the review is just going to say that it doesn't worth the price difference, you'd better just buy ATH-M50 or max HD650
 
If it requires high end system, so be it. But that is also a point of consideration before buying the abyss. You might be content with your system with your LCD-3 or HE-6, but abyss might need some more
 
@defqon: I don't understand why you are still making conclusion by what you've seen and read, just drive off to A2A and judge by your own ears? You're living in Melbourne >.>

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps
 
 
@defqon: I don't understand why you are still making conclusion by what you've seen and read, just drive off to A2A and judge by your own ears? You're living in Melbourne >.>

1. Not really some "low/mid-fi" pair do just as well as some high end stuff. It all comes down to synergy at the end of the day.
 
2. I know  I know, I need to make some time for an audition but A2A isn't exactly close to me neither.

 

[etherlite]

'synergy' might be a suitable word for some high-end headphones because their sound signature is compatible with the system, but most times it just sounds good, still less than 50%of their capabilities (mostly technicality-wise)
 
especially you're comparing it with other TOTL headphones, is it fair to give a scoring if the headphone can't give their best?
 
lol, I'm still waiting until August for my graduation in Melbourne to be able to re-audition abyss with LG or LAu....

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

'synergy' might be a suitable word for some high-end headphones because their sound signature is compatible with the system, but most times it just sounds good, still less than 50%of their capabilities (mostly technicality-wise)
 
especially you're comparing it with other TOTL headphones, is it fair to give a scoring if the headphone can't give their best?
 
lol, I'm still waiting until August for my graduation in Melbourne to be able to re-audition abyss with LG or LAu....

1. Well we're talking about mid-high end here so it's ok to dismiss the low-fi grade stuff. Synergy applies to anything that has the potential to sound good and I think it start's from a mid fi headphone such as the HD580/600, SA3/5k, DT 880 Prem 600ohm, T5p, AD2000/W1000X etc. Do note that you can get a mess of a sound if you pair these headphones with the wrong amplifier just to give you any idea. Synergy isn't restricted to just high-end headphones it applies to almost anything with a transducer capable of delivering better sound but with the weakest link in the chain, the amplifier (minus source). If you think "synergy" only applies to the HD800 between it and the amp, you're wrong. 
 
2. I think you're getting confused to what I was saying and what Hutnicks was trying to convey. The thing is not about getting any amp and expecting it to shine with a TOTL headphone, no it doesn't work that way. What I was saying is that, with comparison's sometimes you can't always have everything in the same picture. For example, OP re-did a test with the Abyss on the Cavali amp, the Cavali amp isn't you're regular $1-2k high end headphone amp it is a summit-fi amp ($2k + if we put an acceptable figure). While this combination may sound extremely good, it is also important to know what amp the HD800/LCD3 was running off. The HD800 itself has a history of not pairing well with a large number of amplifiers, only synergising well a certain few. It also worthy to note that our distributor A2A don't have some of the other well acclaimed amplifiers around these boards, the Eddie Current range, Headamp etc. So what you have in the end is a half arsed picture of one side telling the story. 
 
For a perfect review comparing all the flagships, every high-end amp/TOTL headphone needs to be included in the review. Unfortunately for us Aussies, we are limited to what we can grab our hands on, in the US, with meets and audio festivals that happen quite frequently, put's us out of the picture.

 

[Duckman]

I said the bass and soundstage were superior, but that I preferred the sweeter mids of the LCD3. Overall, on the basis of a short demo, I preferred the Abyss.
 
As for comparison with the 009, I didn't imply that the Abyss was better. I just assume it would be competitive given what I've heard of the 009.
 
Quote:

 
Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well). 

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

I said the bass and soundstage were superior, but that I preferred the sweeter mids of the LCD3. Overall, on the basis of a short demo, I preferred the Abyss.
 
As for comparison with the 009, I didn't imply that the Abyss was better. I just assume it would be competitive given what I've heard of the 009.
 

Again you proved my post what i was saying. Overall you preferred the Abyss. You did in fact point out that it would be competitive against the 009 without hearing it, this would mean coming close or succeeding some of the 009's sound aspects. 

 

[etherlite]

I thought A2A is bringing in headamp series including GS-X? As for eddie current, ask maus, he got ZD
 

I said the bass and soundstage were superior, but that I preferred the sweeter mids of the LCD3. 
 

Totally Agree, I also prefer my LCD2.1 mid over Abyss'