[littlej0e]

Haha, yeah it drove me around the bend for a bit until I figured out there were different versions that have a pretty huge price difference.

The top of the line, Wavedream Signature Edition Balanced costs about $17-20,000 USD retail. If I remember correctly. The regular XLR version is like $10k, then the RCA version is like $7k regular and $13-15k for the Signature Edition RCA.

Just ballpark, that might help answer the question. And I think your said 4-5x May KTE, so that -should- be the Signature Edition Balanced at the full $20k?

In that case, it was likely the Signature Edition Balanced. Was priced a hair over 20k so I suspect that was it.

Really great sounding DAC. Put the Dave and May together, increase the SQ and you have the Rockna.

 

[Jon L]

The top of the line, Wavedream Signature Edition Balanced costs about $17-20,000 USD retail. If I remember correctly. The regular XLR version is like $10k, then the RCA version is like $7k regular and $13-15k for the Signature Edition RCA.

There's a saying: "Speaker makers eat ramen while cable makers eat steak."

 

[DJJEZ]

There's a saying: "Speaker makers eat ramen while cable makers eat steak."

Lmao

 

[SuperBurrito]

For speaker amps that can be used with the TC, is there any guideline as to maximum power, or is there anything else I should know?

I can definitely see the appeal of having an amp that can power both speakers and headphones...

 

[littlej0e]

Thanks for that detailed reply

I haven't heard the Firebird cables before, but you have me intrigued. Snake River has been on my radar, and I've heard similar feedback with the Final Audio Callisto USB.

Also, everybody seems to love the Holo May KTE. I've been researching it recently, and I've started to get pretty interested in it. I'm still looking to update my current dac (mDAVE), and I was focusing in on the DCS Rossini, Mola Mola Tambaqui, or Sean Jacobs power for the DAVE. I'm curious to hear what you think of the Holo May KTE with the WA33 EE JPS, given we have similar hardware in that regard.

I will be sure to report back when it arrives! Seems like the least I could do for all of your extremely helpful advice and insight...

You hit the nail on the head with cables though -it really is personal preference. I definitely heard better sounding power cables, but went with a balanced cable because I knew the SR1a's and TCs would be plenty detailed and revealing on their own and I didn't want to melt my face with detail. If I were picking a cable for straight up detail whoring, I would definitely get something like the DC Nirvana or the Snake River as a good in-between.

As for the May, it will probably boil down to what kind of sound you are after. I suspect the Dave with the SJ's would probably complement a tube amp better than the May would. The May is warm and very analog sounding. It is a phenomenal paring with the SR1a and HSA1b - truly a near-perfect match to my ear. It really warms up the SR1a's and calms them down. No more harsh edges or high end shrillness and I no longer get listening fatigue. Now my only limitation is my ability to stave off mental and physical exhaustion when listening to music.

However, I do worry the May with the WA33 EE JPS could be too much of a good thing for many. After all, most people don't like their bacon dipped in butter fried in chocolate . But if the WA33 does indeed sound more like an SS amp as some are reporting then it might end up being a great pairing after all. We shall see.

 

[ken6217]

For speaker amps that can be used with the TC, is there any guideline as to maximum power, or is there anything else I should know?

I can definitely see the appeal of having an amp that can power both speakers and headphones...

Turn up the volume until you see a little bit of smoke coming from the drivers, and then turn the volume back a click.

 

[qboogie]

Ok, the DAC / artist similes are simply awesome. Thanks for this post!!

Next comparison you do, use james bond actors.

 

[ken6217]

Actually. with a speaker amp it’s not just the power. It’s the quality of the amp which is paramount. You can’t just get any amp that puts out a lot of power and expect excellent results.

 

[zenlisten]

I put a lot of energy into trying to compare the sound out of the TT2 directly with the sound while the XI AUDIO Formula S is in between, and in the end I didn’t find out much about the difference. Still, it’s all good news in the end.

It was immediately clear that the Formula S sounded differently but it was very hard for me to understand what exactly the differences were. These ridiculous scenarios repeated a few times:

• In a specific track I find the music/bass/voice/soundstage/whatever through the Formula S amazing. So I switch (15+ seconds), and listen to the same part again directly from the TT2. And the damn thing sounds at least as amazing! In other words: the quality I found remarkable is independent from the amplification used.
• I find something ugly using one device. I switch, and the issue is there on the other device too. So it’s an issue either with the recording or the rest of the system (and not the amplification parts).

In other words: I had a hard time understanding what differences I should focus on when using the TT2 directly versus using the additional amp. Either the differences are too subtle to notice after the 15+ second breaks, or my listening is too untrained, or my hearing is crap.

I asked my family to help. Unfortunately each of them only tested a single Billie Eilish song, but here it is:

• My wife liked the sound via the Formula S better, even though she didn’t want me to buy yet another black box for a lot of money (and I didn’t even mention the Powerman). However, I have to take into account that I forgot to make sure that the volumes match for her listening.
• After careful listening our 14 year old could not decide: “Both of them are pretty good”, was the judgement. Fair enough.
• Our 17 year old found both great but slightly preferred the sound directly from the front SE of the TT2 as it had slightly “more clarity”. I was really happy to hear that as this statement fully aligned with my perception.

So I spent additional hours, tried really hard and went through a lot of music. To some tracks listened over ten times to be sure (e.g., Lumerian by Soen). And still I could not understand what exactly the differences were. The sound of Formula S (connected via inakustik premium audio RCA interconnect cables) sounded slightly differently but could not say how exactly due to my untrained ears and the 15+ second long switches. And the TT2 had a little bit more “clarity” or “transparency” which was expected. It wasn’t a critical difference though that would drastically change the enjoyment of the music for me. In other words: both are great.

The bass situation was really puzzling to me as I saw some people complaining about the lack of bass on Abyss directly from the TT2. I worked very hard to reproduce this issue. Listened to a lot of bass-heavy music, including a lot of metal but in the end I failed: to my hearing the front SE jack from the TT2 was producing just as much wonderful bass as the Formula S. This is completely against my expectations and I cannot explain it. I don’t think my hearing would be so bad that I couldn’t judge this but I cannot exclude this possibility. Or is there a significant difference in my setup? I wish I could invite those who missed the bass on Abyss from the TT2 to a joint audition and find out together what’s going on.


In the end it’s a win-win situation:

• I’m positive that the Hugo TT2 is powerful enough to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones, even from the front SE jack. This result is against my expectations, and based on other’s reports I have worked really hard against it, but I have no other choice than trusting my experience. This is good news for me: I don’t have to add another component to my audio chain.
• On the other hand, the Formula S sounds like an excellent amp for the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones, even without the Powerman. It would be a strong purchase candidate for me if I had a DAVE which reportedly doesn’t have the power to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs directly.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[mammal]

After careful listening our 14 year old could not decide: “Both of them are pretty good”, was the judgement. Fair enough.

Puberty starts earlier with each generation, if your kid is not mindblown when listening to 15k+ headphone setup, haha but as always, fantastic write up, thanks for posting!

 

[ra990]

I put a lot of energy into trying to compare the sound out of the TT2 directly with the sound while the XI AUDIO Formula S is in between, and in the end I didn’t find out much about the difference. Still, it’s all good news in the end.



It was immediately clear that the Formula S sounded differently but it was very hard for me to understand what exactly the differences were. These ridiculous scenarios repeated a few times:

• In a specific track I find the music/bass/voice/soundstage/whatever through the Formula S amazing. So I switch (15+ seconds), and listen to the same part again directly from the TT2. And the damn thing sounds at least as amazing! In other words: the quality I found remarkable is independent from the amplification used.
• I find something ugly using one device. I switch, and the issue is there on the other device too. So it’s an issue either with the recording or the rest of the system (and not the amplification parts).

In other words: I had a hard time understanding what differences I should focus on when using the TT2 directly versus using the additional amp. Either the differences are too subtle to notice after the 15+ second breaks, or my listening is too untrained, or my hearing is crap.

I asked my family to help. Unfortunately each of them only tested a single Billie Eilish song, but here it is:

• My wife liked the sound via the Formula S better, even though she didn’t want me to buy yet another black box for a lot of money (and I didn’t even mention the Powerman). However, I have to take into account that I forgot to make sure that the volumes match for her listening.
• After careful listening our 14 year old could not decide: “Both of them are pretty good”, was the judgement. Fair enough.
• Our 17 year old found both great but slightly preferred the sound directly from the front SE of the TT2 as it had slightly “more clarity”. I was really happy to hear that as this statement fully aligned with my perception.

So I spent additional hours, tried really hard and went through a lot of music. To some tracks listened over ten times to be sure (e.g., Lumerian by Soen). And still I could not understand what exactly the differences were. The sound of Formula S (connected via inakustik premium audio RCA interconnect cables) sounded slightly differently but could not say how exactly due to my untrained ears and the 15+ second long switches. And the TT2 had a little bit more “clarity” or “transparency” which was expected. It wasn’t a critical difference though that would drastically change the enjoyment of the music for me. In other words: both are great.

The bass situation was really puzzling to me as I saw some people complaining about the lack of bass on Abyss directly from the TT2. I worked very hard to reproduce this issue. Listened to a lot of bass-heavy music, including a lot of metal but in the end I failed: to my hearing the front SE jack from the TT2 was producing just as much wonderful bass as the Formula S. This is completely against my expectations and I cannot explain it. I don’t think my hearing would be so bad that I couldn’t judge this but I cannot exclude this possibility. Or is there a significant difference in my setup? I wish I could invite those who missed the bass on Abyss from the TT2 to a joint audition and find out together what’s going on.


In the end it’s a win-win situation:

• I’m positive that the Hugo TT2 is powerful enough to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones, even from the front SE jack. This result is against my expectations, and based on other’s reports I have worked really hard against it, but I have no other choice than trusting my experience. This is good news for me: I don’t have to add another component to my audio chain.
• On the other hand, the Formula S sounds like an excellent amp for the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones, even without the Powerman. It would be a strong purchase candidate for me if I had a DAVE which reportedly doesn’t have the power to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs directly.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Now that's a great experiment and a very logical conclusion. If you have to struggle that much to decide which one is better, there's no reason to add the new component. As you said, it makes a lot more sense to consider an amp if you had the DAVE, but not so much with the TT2 (unless you want a different sound).

 

[mammal]

As you said, it makes a lot more sense to consider an amp if you had the DAVE, but not so much with the TT2 (unless you want a different sound).

I think it also speaks to qualities of Formula S, if it matches up to TT2’s transparency (almost). Definitely a good amp for those who are not rocking TT2, for example owners of XIAudio Sagra DAC.

 

[jlbrach]

I cant speak to the TT but I can say the chord dave direct doesnt do justice to the abyss tc and the formula s/powerman does....just my 2 cents

 

[Orlok]

Re: Amp pairing for the AB-1266 - my journey

I started my journey in search for the 'ultimate' amp for the Abyss more than 2 years ago when I had the Formula S / Powerman, as at the time and I was not completely happy, and I kept going back and forth from it to DAVE direct over and over.

I had the chance of listening to the AB-1266 back then with an Ayre VX-R twenty (200Wpch, 30kEuro), which I plugged into hesitantly for obvious reasons, but it was a brief yet eye opening experience of how much I could improve from where I stood.

Since then, I decided that going the speaker amp way was my plan.

Apart from the sound quality revelation from the financially unachievable Ayre, this was because I also wanted to be able of driving my speakers every now and then, and because of many other reasons:

- much more options available
- easier to audition in shop, at friend's homes, at my home
- typically better built and designed, especially going through the most well reputed brands (Pass, Luxman, Accuphase, Burmester, NAGRA, ...)
- typically better value for money due to economy of scale and a more competitive market
- vast offering in the 2nd hand market
- better resale value

My objective with the AB-1266 and the DAVE was to find an amp that was able to preserve as much as possible the DAVE transparency while helping with the shortcomings of the Abyss sound signature - to my taste - i.e. some thinness in the mids and some glare/haze in the lower treble and in the sibilance region. So it was mostly a matter of tonality synergy rather than looking for the raw power headroom some speaker amp can provide.

During a very enjoyable quest lasting more than one year, I was able to find very good matches at several increasing price points, and in all cases I felt that the pairing was an improvement with respect to the XI Audio combo, so feeling ressured I was on the right path.
Some examples at increasing price are the Sugden A21 Signature SE, Pass XA-25, Leben CS600X, Luxman 590AX-II.

As I kept moving up into high-end (my budget was something around 10k) I came across some very compelling combinations such the Air Tight ATM-300R (300B amp), NAGRA Classic AMP, Burmester 032.

​

That's when the Riviera AIC-10 crossed my way. It was out of my budget at list price but having the chance of a home audition I could not resist and went ahead. It was love at first hearing and as I rolled the tube and tried the Mullard everything clicked into place and I thought; "that's just the sound I was searching for". I tried to bargain but I could not reach an agreement on the price of a new item so I had to pass, and kept searching.

I tried many other amps, some I did not like (e.g. Krell 300i, DarTZeel LHC-208, for opposite reasons), others that left me lukewarm (Simaudio Moon 600i, Chord Etude, Octave V80SE, Viva Egoista 845), some I liked very much (Ayon Audio Spitfire III) being the other real revelation the Viva Audio Solista, which again was outside my budget - and honestly I preferred not to mess with big tubes for several (non-sonic) reasons.

​

Although the aural memory of the AIC-10 was hauting me, I was very close to pull the trigger on Luxman 590AX-II which I still believe - especially when bought used - is possibly the best value for money and a very synergistic pairing with the Abyss (again for the type of sound I tend to like), when an ex-demo AIC-10 popped out and ... well I guess you know how it ended up

​

Just wanted to share my path ...

Thanks for the valuable insights that you've gathered during this two-year path of finding your ideal amp partner for the TC. Being that I'm at a little over two weeks, I know I have a long way to go although I'm quite happy with what I have now as I start on my own path. It's also encouraging to know that you are also dealing with financial constraints. All this time, I thought you were one of those guys with a virtually unlimited budget! Haha.

Based on your reviews and comments, it seems you lean a bit towards the warm and lush side of the tonal spectrum while maintaining the the highest resolution possible. I think I lean a little more towards the analytical, bright and cool side and I've always been like that with guitar tones as well - more emphasis in the high-mids and treble but still smooth, silky and sweet in the very high registers. It's why I much preferred the HD800S over the LCD-3 that I've owned in the past and part of it is that I listen to a lot of classical orchestral music and I'm very critical about how an orchestra's string section sounds - ditto for chamber music. I guess I'm going more for a cool lushness over warm lushness. It's why I also absolutely love the SR1a for classical and acoustic music listening.

I like the idea of trying and using different speaker amps with the TC in the future. The same goes for the SR1a and, someday, the Susvara. For now and the foreseeable future, I'm totally focused on optimizing what I have - within budget, of course - to get the most out of the TC. From your experience, which speaker amps had more of an analytical and cool tonal signature without being sterile, thin, harsh, etc. that can typically mar amps of that nature? Of course, I want body in the mids and firm and defined lows as well but my general preference is for something on the bright/cool side over dark/warm.

 

[Orlok]

Feedback on fleshing out the mids on the TC: I just picked up a SC cable and it did indeed fill out the midrange. I was doubtful it could be worth the price but I am happy with it. So I guess it was worth it. The SC brought up the mids at the cost of a slight reduction in bass. However I was able to adjust fit to bring the bass back up to the level I prefer.
Now the Abyss no longer feels a little thin or analytical.

I'm starting out with the SC RCA to connect from the TT2 to the TToby as that is more pressing since I'm diverting the XLR out to a different power amp to drive the SR1a and speakers. I should receive the SC RCA set tomorrow and really looking forward to how different this will sound compared to the XLR out with the Silver Dragons. Based on what I've read, the RCA outs should be more transparent and the SC should fill out the mids while being smoother so I'm expecting a fairly noticeable difference/improvement. I was considering the the lower cost SC V RCAs and then, again, decided to go for the SC 4: "Ah, screw it. You only live once!"

Once this is squared away, then it's the SC for the TC and I expect to be a very happy camper for at least a little while but who knows for how long? Haha.