[Orlok]

Wow, so the TToby will arrive tomorrow morning. I ordered on Tuesday and it shipped from England on Wednesday. That’s only 48 hours for a package to leave England, clear US customs in Indianapolis, and get to me in Atlanta. I was expecting to wait 2-3 weeks. I’m very impressed with FedEx and DHL, especially since this was only standard international shipping. The only issue is that the TToby will beat the Banana-XLR adapter and RCA interconnects I need to connect it to the TT2 and TC!

Very cool. Really loving how the TToby is driving the TC. It's a very neutral and transparent sound - perhaps a little too analytical for some - but I still find it very musical.

 

[Orlok]

I would love one but $17k is just out of reach for me lol absolute dream amp for sure

A man without dreams may as well be dead.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Can you describe the tonal difference between the Standard and Elite? I know that the Elite uses premium parts but was curious what type of tonal impact these parts have. I know that the upgrade charge won't be twice as good as the Standard but, if you had to put like a percentage number on the perceived improvement to your ears, what would that be? Considering that the JPS Edition is like $5K over the Standard, wouldn't the EE/JPS combo be more like $20K? Or is it $17K because there's a "combo" work involved so that there'd be some savings in labor?

It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself). So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K. Kinda crazy, but I love it.

I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:

1. No transformer hum (the Standard Edition did have some hum. Not terrible, but a bit annoying. Once you start listening to music though, you don't hear the hum anymore)
2. Even more powerful bass. It's really like subwoofers in your ear. The standard has thunderous bass too, but it's even more pronounced with the EE JPS
3. Soundstage depth is a bit larger
4. More body to the music. The Standard Edition has great body too, but I feel it is more defined and 3D with the EE JPS
5. I didn't particularly like the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition. I was going to sell them, but decided to keep them until I could hear them out of the EE JPS. I'm glad I did. I love the Susvaras out of the EE JPS. I had a friend listen to the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition and then them out of the Elite Edition with JPS wires, and he agreed that the Susvaras sound better out of the WA33 EE JPS. I'm not sure if it's the updated components, the JPS wiring, or whatever, but I like the Susvara a lot more now, and it's my second favorite pair of headphones now (behind the TCs). I think that might speak to the tonality best. The Susvara sounds so "sweet" and "magical," with crazy 3D presentation.
6. I'm not a treble head, but there is nice sparkly highs. I didn't dislike the highs on the Standard Edition, and honestly it's hard for me to remember the treble on the Standard Edition, so I don't want to say the EE JPS is a big difference in that regard

 

[Orlok]

It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself). So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K. Kinda crazy, but I love it.

I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:

1. No transformer hum (the Standard Edition did have some hum. Not terrible, but a bit annoying. Once you start listening to music though, you don't hear the hum anymore)
2. Even more powerful bass. It's really like subwoofers in your ear. The standard has thunderous bass too, but it's even more pronounced with the EE JPS
3. Soundstage depth is a bit larger
4. More body to the music. The Standard Edition has great body too, but I feel it is more defined and 3D with the EE JPS
5. I didn't particularly like the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition. I was going to sell them, but decided to keep them until I could hear them out of the EE JPS. I'm glad I did. I love the Susvaras out of the EE JPS. I had a friend listen to the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition and then them out of the Elite Edition with JPS wires, and he agreed that the Susvaras sound better out of the WA33 EE JPS. I'm not sure if it's the updated components, the JPS wiring, or whatever, but I like the Susvara a lot more now, and it's my second favorite pair of headphones now (behind the TCs). I think that might speak to the tonality best. The Susvara sounds so "sweet" and "magical," with crazy 3D presentation.
6. I'm not a treble head, but there is nice sparkly highs. I didn't dislike the highs on the Standard Edition, and honestly it's hard for me to remember the treble on the Standard Edition, so I don't want to say the EE JPS is a big difference in that regard

Thank you very much for the detailed impressions and I totally understand every aspect of what you are describing. I know that these characteristics you describe are not measurable performance metrics. It's why I can't help but roll my eyes when some people (like that grouchy old men's club at a certain audio forum ) slam TOTL amps for having measurements that are not any better than lower priced ones. In some ways - actually a lot - headphones, amps and other components like DAC are like musical instruments. There are intangibles there that simply cannot be measured by machines.

 

[ken6217]

It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself). So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K. Kinda crazy, but I love it.

I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:

1. No transformer hum (the Standard Edition did have some hum. Not terrible, but a bit annoying. Once you start listening to music though, you don't hear the hum anymore)
2. Even more powerful bass. It's really like subwoofers in your ear. The standard has thunderous bass too, but it's even more pronounced with the EE JPS
3. Soundstage depth is a bit larger
4. More body to the music. The Standard Edition has great body too, but I feel it is more defined and 3D with the EE JPS
5. I didn't particularly like the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition. I was going to sell them, but decided to keep them until I could hear them out of the EE JPS. I'm glad I did. I love the Susvaras out of the EE JPS. I had a friend listen to the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition and then them out of the Elite Edition with JPS wires, and he agreed that the Susvaras sound better out of the WA33 EE JPS. I'm not sure if it's the updated components, the JPS wiring, or whatever, but I like the Susvara a lot more now, and it's my second favorite pair of headphones now (behind the TCs). I think that might speak to the tonality best. The Susvara sounds so "sweet" and "magical," with crazy 3D presentation.
6. I'm not a treble head, but there is nice sparkly highs. I didn't dislike the highs on the Standard Edition, and honestly it's hard for me to remember the treble on the Standard Edition, so I don't want to say the EE JPS is a big difference in that regard

How did you get it up to $21K, or even $17K for that matter? Unless I'm missing something, the website says $12,995 with JPS wiring and the KR tubes.

 

[DJJEZ]

A man without dreams may as well be dead.

You can be sure if I inherit some money or win the lottery thats the first thing I'm buying lmao

 

[Ciggavelli]

How did you get it up to $21K, or even $17K for that matter? Unless I'm missing something, the website says $12,995 with JPS wiring and the KR tubes.

That’s the standard edition with JPS Wiring (JPS doesn’t sell the Elite with JPS Wiring directly on their site).

The Elite Edition with JPS Wiring costs $17K. The tubes are around $4K.

https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa33

 

[ken6217]

Gotcha.

 

[Orlok]

As I delve into this hobby, I'm fascinated by how similar this world is to the musical instruments realm in terms of how different pieces of gear interact with each other to produce the desired results for a particular individual, whether that person is a critical listener or a serious musician. As a guitar player, I came to see over many years how different guitars (and the pickups in them) interact with different amps and effects devices. For example, for whatever reason, some overdrive/distortion pedals just did not play nice with some tube amps while working great with other tube amps. Guitar players would often say that a certain amp "takes pedals well" and that some don't.

It's the same with the woods in a guitar and how some wood combinations work well and some just sound outright weird. It took me many years working in the industry and experimenting to find what myriad combinations work the best for me. But there are so many options and so many different kinds of systems that you realize that one cannot do everything. That's why guitar players have multiple guitars and multiple amps and mix and match them up accordingly for a certain sound to fit a certain song they are writing and recording. I see that's what we need to do here as well!

I certainly got that with owning and using different headphones. Now I see that it's the same with amps. I can't help but think what the TC will sound like with a really good tube amp compared to the TToby, especially when listening to rock. The TC sounds much better for rock and blues than I had expected. Last night, I was listening to the likes of AC/DC, the Stones, SRV, 70's Aerosmith, Cream, CCR, etc. and they all sounded great but... what if it was a nice tube amp? Yes, I'm sure it'd sound even more authentic with more depth, dimension and harmonic richness. Obviously, I do know how guitar tube amps sound compared to guitar solid state amps and systems.

I've attached photos of the guitar rig I've used for many years and which are now used at my company's demo room. The first is of a modern digital-based stereo guitar amp system with two powered floor monitors (500w each). The preamp is in the rack and it has a gazillion presets with different amp sounds and effects using state-of-the-art DSP chips and software modeling. They call it "modeling" because the software algorithms are programmed to "model" different kinds of tube amps, solid state amps, and effects, etc.

The second photo shows the classic hot-rodded Marshall-style boutique 100w tube head with EL34 tubes. This is the sound of rock from Hendrix to Page to Van Halen. There is nothing quite like it. The fancy high-tech digital/SS rig can do some convincing simulations but it just does not compare to a raging 100w tube head. The third photo shows the classic Fender-style boutique low-wattage (22~40w) amp with 6L6 tubes that is an ideal "platform" to use with a pedalboard filled with various effects pedals like overdrive, distortion, chorus/vibrato, delay/echo and reverb. The amp on the right is a vintage solid state Standel amp favored by jazz players (jazzbos don't like tubes!). Then, we have the bass head (1000 watts!) and cabinet. These all do different things very well. I found that I needed them all to get the various sounds and for artists and customers to demo with the guitars.

Now I find that I'm going to "need" different HP amps and mix-and-match with headphones like I did with guitars and guitar amps. I've come to the realization that this oft-used term synergy really does matter with head-fi systems just it did with guitar rigs. It's very interesting. Honestly, I didn't expect this coming over from the musical instruments side of things to this audiophile world. What I know is that I'm going to trust my ears even though I'll always consult with experienced users, reviewers and manufacturers. That's the most important thing: ultimately, you have to follow your own ears.

 

[Ciggavelli]

As I delve into this hobby, I'm fascinated by how similar this world is to the musical instruments realm in terms of how different pieces of gear interact with each other to produce the desired results for a particular individual, whether that person is a critical listener or a serious musician. As a guitar player, I came to see over many years how different guitars (and the pickups in them) interact with different amps and effects devices. For example, for whatever reason, some overdrive/distortion pedals just did not play nice with some tube amps while working great with other tube amps. Guitar players would often say that a certain amp "takes pedals well" and that some don't.

It's the same with the woods in a guitar and how some wood combinations work well and some just sound outright weird. It took me many years working in the industry and experimenting to find what myriad combinations work the best for me. But there are so many options and so many different kinds of systems that you realize that one cannot do everything. That's why guitar players have multiple guitars and multiple amps and mix and match them up accordingly for a certain sound to fit a certain song they are writing and recording. I see that's what we need to do that here as well!

I certainly got that with owning and using different headphones. Now I see that it's the same with amps. I can't help but think what the TC will sound like with a really good tube amp compared to the TToby, especially when listening to rock. The TC sounds much better for rock and blues than I had expected. I was listening to the likes of AC/DC, the Stones, SRV, 70's Aerosmith, Cream, CCR, etc. and they all sounded great but... what if it was a nice tube amp? Yes, I'm sure it'd sound even more authentic with more depth and dimension. Obviously, I do know how guitar tube amps sound compared to guitar solid state amps and systems.

I've attached photos of the guitar rig I've used for many years and which are now used at my company's demo room. The first is of a modern digital-based stereo guitar amp system with two powered floor monitors (500w each). The preamp is in the rack and it has a gazillion presets with different amp sounds and effects using state-of-the-art DSP chips and software modeling. They call it "modeling" because the software algorithms are programmed to "model" different kinds of tube amps, solid state amps, and effects, etc.

The second photo shows the classic hot-rodded Marshall-style boutique 100w tube head with EL34 tubes. This is the sound of rock from Hendrix to Page to Van Halen. There is nothing quite like it. The fancy high-tech digital/SS rig can do some convincing simulations but it just does not compare to a raging 100w tube head. The third photo shows the classic Fender-style boutique low-wattage (22~40w) amp with 6L6 tubes that is an ideal "platform" to use with a pedalboard filled with various effects pedals like overdrive, distortion, chorus/vibrato, delay/echo and reverb. The amp on the right is a vintage Standel amp favored by jazz players. Then, we have the bass head (1000 watts!) and cabinet. These all do different things very well. I found that I needed them all to get the various sounds and for artists and customers to demo with the guitars.

Now I find that I'm going to "need" different HP amps and mix-and-match with headphones like I did with guitars and guitar amps. I've come to the realization that this oft-used term synergy really does matter with head-fi systems just it did with guitar rigs. It's very interesting. Honestly, I didn't expect this coming over from the musical instruments side of things to this audiophile world. What I know is that I'm going to trust my ears even though I'll always consult with experienced users, reviewers and manufacturers. That's the most important thing: ultimately, you have to follow your own ears.

Yeah, synergy is really important. I’ve been toying with getting another DAC (Tambaqui, Rossini, Holo May, etc.) to put into play in my chain. I have no particular complaints with the mDAVE I have, but I didn’t have any complaints with the Standard Edition WA33 either. Yet, the Elite/JPS is better.

I’m not really sure how the sound with my chain can be improved, but I know it can (honestly it always can be improved). There’s something fulfilling about hearing sound quality improvements you couldn’t even imagine previously. I guess looking back, that’s part of the fun with HiFi audio. You start with less expensive equipment to test the waters, which then leads to more expensive and higher quality components. Every step up is fun.

Other than losing money selling my older equipment, I kinda like the step-by-step process of the audiophile world. For DACs, I started with a DragonFly, then a Oppo portable, a JDS Element, Hugo 2, Hugo TT2 (then added the m-scaler), then DAVE with the M-scaler. I wonder, would I have appreciated all that the DAVE has to offer if I started with the DAVE, instead of the Hugo 2? Obviously, I can’t go back in time, but it’s an interesting thought experiment

 

[Orlok]

Yeah, synergy is really important. I’ve been toying with getting another DAC (Tambaqui, Rossini, Holo May, etc.) to put into play in my chain. I have no particular complaints with the mDAVE I have, but I didn’t have any complaints with the Standard Edition WA33 either. Yet, the Elite/JPS is better.

I’m not really sure how the sound with my chain can be improved, but I know it can (honestly it always can be improved). There’s something fulfilling about hearing sound quality improvements you couldn’t even imagine previously. I guess looking back, that’s part of the fun with HiFi audio. You start with less expensive equipment to test the waters, which then leads to more expensive and higher quality components. Every step up is fun.

Other than losing money selling my older equipment, I kinda like the step-by-step process of the audiophile world. For DACs, I started with a DragonFly, then a Oppo portable, a JDS Element, Hugo 2, Hugo TT2 (then added the m-scaler), then DAVE with the M-scaler. I wonder, would I have appreciated all that the DAVE has to offer if I started with the DAVE, instead of the Hugo 2? Obviously, I can’t go back in time, but it’s an interesting thought experiment

Yup, it's that next step you take and experiencing something you haven't before that becomes the "drug". Ah, I remember the days of FiiO and Sennheiser HD298. I'm about 5 years behind you but I know I'll catch up since it seems you will have nothing more to upgrade to by then!

 

[spacelion2077]

Does anyone know how much it would cost to fix a ab 1266 driver issue after warranty expires?

 

[Ciggavelli]

Does anyone know how much it would cost to fix a ab 1266 driver issue after warranty expires?

Joe hinted $2K

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15016313

 

[spacelion2077]

Thanks for the response

 

[Ratephi]

Other than losing money selling my older equipment, I kinda like the step-by-step process of the audiophile world. For DACs, I started with a DragonFly, then a Oppo portable, a JDS Element, Hugo 2, Hugo TT2 (then added the m-scaler), then DAVE with the M-scaler. I wonder, would I have appreciated all that the DAVE has to offer if I started with the DAVE, instead of the Hugo 2? Obviously, I can’t go back in time, but it’s an interesting thought experiment

Yes interesting point. Personally, I am firmly convinced that you would have not appreciated DAVE as much as you can now, because of the "journey" which happened before... And, to be honest, I believe that skipping steps and jumping right away on the ultimate - or presumed so - amp, dac, headphone, etc. is what prevents many of us from truly enjoying some of the great gear we own...