[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds reasonable but even two of the exact same item can have small variations, to be strict you would have to measure two out-of-the-box items to check they were close enough to start with and then burn one in and not the other.

I was responding to the question about auditory memory. I'll also add that some of those people have said that after comparing new and old, and letting new burn-in, they sounded more alike afterwards. This should bring the argument out of fallible auditory memory and back to placebo.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd be curious to know how you came to that firm conclusion?

a) The guy who made the measurements said that.
b) Other measurements he did in between showed similar 'differences'.

He also compared a few amps which showed very little to no difference, pad mods however did show e.g. increased bass response.

 

[JaZZ]

Someone should measure harmonic distortion before and after break-in. That would be the most promising approach in my book.
.

 

[kwkarth]

Not aimed at any one person in particular:

Auditory memory? Why worry about auditory memory when many of us in this discussion seem to ignore or forget the multitude of posts that answered the repeated questions, assumptions, premature conclusions, etc?

Let's go first for thread memory and see where we get.

 

[haloxt]

Hahahahahahaha

 

[xnor]

For those who're still interested and like graphs

GS1000 connected to a Rudistor NX-33 (balanced), red = 0h, blue = 200h

The guy who did this also concluded that he couldn't measure differences.

 

[kwkarth]

That's pretty cool. The differences between 0 and 200 hrs could be caused by nothing more than a slightly different placement of the cans on the dummy head OR caused by ear pad compression.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's pretty cool. The differences between 0 and 200 hrs could be caused by nothing more than a slightly different placement of the cans on the dummy head OR caused by ear pad compression.

Yeah.

Anyone who's used headphones for any length of time would know that very slight positional changes of the headphones can have a rather profound effect on the sound. And this would be especially true if one were using a dummy ear for their measurements.

I think it would be more instructive to take a raw headphone driver and rigidly mount it to a baffle and do the measurements as you would a regular loudspeaker driver.

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Perhaps buy a few of these Kobitone's from Mouser so you don't have to tear any headphones apart.

se

 

[xnor]

But what is the point in doing so?
Even if you could measure differences, they still would be much smaller than the changes e.g. due to moving the headphones a few millimeters (!) on your head.
And as such it's pretty much bullcrap to write "give these cans 200h burn-in and they'll sound much better" because it simply isn't true.
You brain adapts and that's about it. That or you figured out how to place headphones on your melon correctly.

However, burn-in is real but people exaggerate beyond all measure. I don't think it makes much sense to mention burn-in when talking about headphones.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif But what is the point in doing so? Even if you could measure differences, they still would be much smaller than the changes e.g. due to moving the headphones a few millimeters (!) on your head. And as such it's pretty much bullcrap to write "give these cans 200h burn-in and they'll sound much better" because it simply isn't true. You brain adapts and that's about it. That or you figured out how to place headphones on your melon correctly. However, burn-in is real but people exaggerate beyond all measure. I don't think it makes sense to mention burn-in when talking about headphones.

Thanks for this graph and it's very telling. It goes along with my feeling that my Grado's don't sound any different despite decent burnin periods.

I haven't appreciated burnin differences with my D5000's though they are known to require extensive burn-in.

However, I'd be careful making a wholesale conclusion based on that single test of 0 and 200hrs of use for a pair of GS1000's.

One headphone may well respond differently to a burn in period as opposed to another.

One thing I tend to agree with is that the amount of credit being given to burn in to account for the differences in performance being heard over time as one uses a pair of cans, is grossly exaggerated. The credit should be given to acclimatization to the sound, how the phones are fit on the head from one listening session to another, what sounds your ears have been subjected to just prior to a listening session and finally, the ambient sounds present during a listening session.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for this graph and it's very telling. It goes along with my feeling that my Grado's don't sound any different despite decent burnin periods. I haven't appreciated burnin differences with my D5000's though they are known to require extensive burn-in. However, I'd be careful making a wholesale conclusion based on that single test of 0 and 200hrs of use for a pair of GS1000's. [size=medium]One headphone may well respond differently to a burn in period as opposed to another. [/size] One thing I tend to agree with is that the amount of credit being given to burn in to account for the differences in performance being heard over time as one uses a pair of cans, is grossly exaggerated. The credit should be given to acclimatization to the sound, how the phones are fit on the head from one listening session to another, what sounds your ears have been subjected to just prior to a listening session and finally, the ambient sounds present during a listening session.

I heartily agree with the above, particularly the highlighted part.

 

[xnor]

True aimlink, but the Ultrasones I've posted before also didn't change over time.
Two completely different tests and headphones by different persons and both show the same result.
Statistically it's insignificant, but enough for me to form an opinion.

2:0, at least!

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif True aimlink, but the Ultrasones I've posted before also didn't change over time. Two completely different tests and headphones by different persons and both show the same result. Statistically it's insignificant, but enough for me to form an opinion. 2:0, at least!

I didn't see that one but thanks again.

VERY MUCH!!! Very interesting data.

I can certainly understand you skepticism. I'm almost there, believe me, but I still reserve caution because of the wide variability in can design and materials used. Or is there.... I mean wide variability in materials used????? I just realised and am confessing that I was writing out of my armchair.

 

[xnor]

Hehe yeah, variability. That's a much more interesting topic to talk about.
Two headphones of the same model, bought from the same shop and everything could show more difference than we can see in the graphs I posted.
I don't wanna do AKG down here, but some guys at the german hifi forum said this seems to be a problem especially with the K701.

That should make you think. :s

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm almost there, believe me, but I still reserve caution ...

That's a good thing, I'm not trying to persuade anyone though.