The "I don't like the 'Sennheiser sound'" Thread

[afobisme]

sennheisers

or so i thought

 

[Andrea]

Me too, and I still think so!

 

[afobisme]

if only grados could offer the pretty designs + pricecut sales as the sennheisers

 

[silvervarg]

I don't want to add to the flames on the sound qualities, so I choose not to comment on the sound of Senns or Grados or whatever...

What I do want to comment is the build construction of the Senn HD600/HD650. They do have serious design flaws. The tiny cable that goes from the diaframg to the connector is not properly fixed and way to thin and fragile. On numerous phones this becomes a problem, especially noticed when you move your head while music is playing. If it was a sub $30 phone this would have been acceptable, but at the price of the HD600/HD650 it is outrageous to have something made that bad.

The connectors themselves are of bad quality, very hard to replace for something better and the male connector (part that goes on the cable side) can not be bought individually. This makes it very costly to make third part replacement cables and they can not achieve the quality that would have been possible if better connectors hard been used.

Cable thickness and quality of the HD600 is quite poor. The HD650 has an acceptable cable, but I would expect better for the price of the phones.

I have not checked inside the cheaper Senns, so the above statement is just my oppinion of the construction of HD600/HD650.

 

[nickchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar The 650s really are a sacred cow on this forum. You can say ANYTHING negative about any other can safely, but you say one negative thing about them and be prepared to find out how bad you source is, how cheap your amp is, how bad the cable is, how your ears aren't up to snuff, and how, you are just plain Wrong. Of course when the HD700s are released, the 650s will then become worthless to these same people....

LOL

The fact that nobody descended to react to your observation shows how right you are.

 

[Jahn]

Like Sovkiller, I've heard the HD650 with all sorts of aftermarket cables and $$$ rigs at meets. Even under meet conditions, and honestly telling the folks here that I really don't hear a veil with the right setup (wrong setup? BIG veil), even then, the HD650 just doesn't excite me. It doesn't have that house signature sound that I enjoy (Grados!) and thus is otherwise boring to me. That's really not a fault of the Senns, it's just my personal preference.

What that shows me is that the HD650 is scalable up to any rig you can stick it in, and can operate smoothly in the priciest environments. But a Senn's still going to sound like a Senn, for better or worse.

 

[DevilDog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar The 650s really are a sacred cow on this forum. You can say ANYTHING negative about any other can safely, but you say one negative thing about them and be prepared to find out how bad you source is, how cheap your amp is, how bad the cable is, how your ears aren't up to snuff, and how, you are just plain Wrong. Of course when the HD700s are released, the 650s will then become worthless to these same people....

I believe that the HD650s perhaps more than any other can need the right source/amp to sound good. As I've said elsewhere, it's hard to understand how they can be a marketing success given that fact. But when you do get the combo right it is one of the best sounding cans in the world. That is, of course, for people who like the Senn sound. But I've only seen a few who don't recognize their superb technical merits.

As far as the HD650s becoming worthless when the HD700s come out, I very seriously doubt it. People still love the HD600, some even prefer over the HD650, and the HD580 is still regarded as one of the best, if not the best, bang for the buck headphone on the market.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn "....What that shows me is that the HD650 is scalable up to any rig you can stick it in, and can operate smoothly in the priciest environments...."

Jahn (and sorry to partially quoted you) but don't you think that this apply to every single hi end headphone in the round green planet Earth???

The better the setup the better they will perform, and the only big problem is that IMO and to my rusty ears, the bigger the difference between the ones I like, and the ones I do not...

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilDog I believe that the HD650s perhaps more than any other can need the right source/amp to sound good.

To me this suggests its sound is not neutral to begin with.
Therefore great attention must be paid to the amp, source and cable.

 

[periurban]

When I was looking for a new pair of 'phones I tested the Grado SR60's against the Senn HD600's, and the Grado's sounded a hundred times better to my jaded ear.

The HD600s sounded wooly and flat, with no punch worth speaking about. Percussion was lacking in definition and upper mid range sounds were splashed all over the place.

In contrast, the Grados had plenty of definition and much better outlined dynamics. I loved them instantly, even more than the SR80s.

I was testing them on a Chinese valve amp/CD combo I've forgotten the name of.

I have heard Senn 'phones under less controlled circumstances, and didn't like them there either.

Like the original poster, I do find myself wondering how everyone's ear/brain/aesthetic matrix can arrive at such vastly different conclusions, and how we all describe the same thing in entirely different language.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose ...To me this suggests its sound is not neutral to begin with. Therefore great attention must be paid to the amp, source and cable.

Not necessarily. My interpretation is the opposite: Mediocre equipment and cables don't allow for the full extension and resolution which it needs to really shine. It's too flat and neutral and has not enough or not the right kind of colorations -- such as mid-bass resonance providing punch or sizzling highs making everything lively and detailed -- to compensate for such shortcomings. (So although the bass is strong and deep, it doesn't stand out because also the lower midrange is quite pronounced; and although treble extension is excellent, the treble is very smooth and unobtrusive.) For this scenario speaks that the HD 650 is barely rated as seriously colored, rather as boring, lifeless and veiled. The latter characterization is especially typical in view of slow electronics. And admittedly the treble is somewhat subdued -- instead of emphasized in one way or the other, like with most other cans.

There are parallels in the speaker world. Many speakers are trimmed to offer impressive bass punch and outstanding treble (as a substitute for extension and/or resolution) because that's what sounds most impressive with the mediocre gear they're meant to be used with and for the less demanding, non-audiophile clientele.

 

[Jahn]

Sov, I'll be the first to admit that the KSC-35, plugged into a 10K rig, probably isn't going to sound THAT much better than if it was plugged into my 0404/Pinkie combo. Because certain things about the can just won't "improve" - like its big bottomed bass and it's lack of Qualia-like detail up top, hehe.

The HD650, on the other hand, does seem to improve with better stuff around it, and keep on improving. So if you had a HD650 plugged into an ipod shuffle, I'd probably prefer the KSC-35. But if you had it plugged into a Meitner to a Cary, then the HD650 would show its stuff.

But a HP2 would still kick its butt.

 

[JefferyK]

I'll go out on limb here, seeing that I've spent a lot of time over the past year listening to different Sennheiser and Grado models plugged into different amps with different sources.

Grados have a lot of punch and a lot of detail. But don't confuse punch and detail with accurate sound reproduction. Where Sennheiser trumps Grado is timbre: Instruments sound like actual instruments. Strings, acoustic guitars, and drums, for example, sound more real via Sennheiser headphones.

Sennheisers are not exciting. They sound soft compared to Grados. They don't have that toe-tapping impact. But I find them far more involving because I find them far more musical.

I certainly understand why some people would prefer Grado over Sennheiser. I have been dazzled by my 225s. But I still think Sennheiser makes better headphones.

Jeffery

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JefferyK I'll go out on limb here, seeing that I've spent a lot of time over the past year listening to different Sennheiser and Grado models plugged into different amps with different sources. Grados have a lot of punch and a lot of detail. But don't confuse punch and detail with accurate sound reproduction. Where Sennheiser trumps Grado is timbre: Instruments sound like actual instruments. Strings, acoustic guitars, and drums, for example, sound more real via Sennheiser headphones. Sennheisers are not exciting. They sound soft compared to Grados. They don't have that toe-tapping impact. But I find them far more involving because I find them far more musical. I certainly understand why some people would prefer Grado over Sennheiser. I have been dazzled by my 225s. But I still think Sennheiser makes better headphones. Jeffery

I agree. The HD650 would make a cymbal sound more like a real cymbal than, say, an SR225, SR325, maybe even the RS-1. Dunno about the PS-1, I'll have to try that out. But with the HP-2, the timbre is perfect. That's a REAL cymbal. And more genuine than the Senn sound's interpretation of it imho.

 

[wakeride74]

This may be a bit off topic but since the ones that seem not to care for the Senn sound often prefer Grado let me ask: do you like the look of one over the other better??

I have yet to hear any Grados but they look like something left over from the 40's and don't seem like they would be very comfy.