[daggah]

I read about technology and I read audiophile views, then I listen for myself. I suggest you try it. No need for expensive audio cables, try the inexpensive ones I favour from Yauhody, available on Amazon. If you can't hear any difference, then you can continue to disagree. Disagreeing without listening however disqualifies your opinion, speaking as an audiophile.

It's pretty unfair to insist on listening for myself when discussing a reasonably objective method for doing so is banned from this forum.

I'm sure tests that have shown that people can't accurately identify differences between expensive speaker cables and a coat hanger are probably also banned here as well.

 

[endless402]

Why is it unfair for you to listen to it yourself?

 

[griff500]

Good grief. You actually read the entire thread and still didn’t understand that it’s nothing to do with data integrity…

 

[bfreedma]

Good grief. You actually read the entire thread and still didn’t understand that it’s nothing to do with data integrity…

What’s more amazing is that you’ve read this whole thread and still don’t understand that it’s only about data integrity. Because the other “problems” with Ethernet being espoused by posters lacking operational and technical knowledge don’t exist. If they did exist, as stated above, we would see it in other Ethernet applications where the need for accuracy and associated risks are far higher than audio reproduction.

Once again, evidence supporting claims Ethernet cables sound different would be a literal gold mine for vendors. Yet none can produce that objective data. Nor can their customers. I guess the vendors just don’t want to make more money…

Have to love when people who acknowledge they don’t have a deep understanding of Ethernet and/or hands on expertise make claims that counter the existing knowledge base. You would have thought the last 18 months would have illustrated the risk of believing people with an agenda over hard science. Apparently not.

 

[audiobomber]

It's pretty unfair to insist on listening for myself when discussing a reasonably objective method for doing so is banned from this forum.

I'm sure tests that have shown that people can't accurately identify differences between expensive speaker cables and a coat hanger are probably also banned here as well.

Listen any way you want, but do try listening. The only method I've found that works is long term listening in my system and reversing the change if possible.

To you, the fact that a test can't tell the difference between a coat hanger and audiophile cables means there's no difference. To me, it means that the test methodology was invalid.

Double blind test discussions are banned in most audiophile forums because some technocrats cant leave off with their evangelism and can't bear to see audiophiles enjoying their hobby.

 

[bfreedma]

Listen any way you want, but do try listening. To you, the fact that a test can't tell the difference between a coat hanger and audiophile cables means there's no difference. To me, it means that the test was invalid.

Double blind test discussions are banned in most audiophile forums because some technocrats cant leave off with their evangelism and can't bear to see audiophiles enjoying their hobby.

DBT discussions are banned in most audiophile forums because the vendors who fund/advertise/support those sites demand it. People determining they can’t identify differences is bad for audiophile sales.

 

[audiobomber]

DBT discussions are banned in most audiophile forums because the vendors who fund/advertise/support those sites demand it. People determining they can’t identify differences is bad for audiophile sales.

I must disagree, and I'm sure most forum management would be insulted by your insinuation of corruption. Technocrats are a fringe group in audiophile circles, not a majority by any means.

The Audio Asylum banned DBT discussions a long time ago, well before they started taking advertising. They were banned because they invariably lead to death spirals like this one.

 

[daggah]

Bingo, bfreedma. That's a definite bingo.

The argument that we're the ones trying to prevent true audiophiles from enjoying their hobby is an odd one to make, because we're the ones trying to tell people they don't need to spend crazy amounts of money to enjoy their audio.

 

[daggah]

Let's try to tackle this from another angle. If you buy an audiophile ethernet cable and then "hear a difference" in your audio quality, one of three scenarios must be happening.

1) The audiophile cable is enhancing the sound. In this scenario, the cheaper cable is audibly transparent, but the audiophile cable is improving the sound in some way.

2) The cheaper cable is degrading the sound. In other words, the audiophile cable is more audibly transparent, and the cheaper cable is getting in the way of achieving that goal.

3) The sound isn't actually changing, only your perception of it is. In this scenario, various unavoidable human biases are coming into play to color your perception of what you are hearing.

Obviously I take position #3. But for you subjectivists, which is happening? Is the expensive cable enhancing the sound, or is the theorized noise or interference on the cheaper cable somehow making its way through the rest of your signal chain, to your transducer of choice, and into your ears?

 

[bfreedma]

I must disagree, and I'm sure most forum management would be insulted by your insinuation of corruption. Technocrats are a fringe group in audiophile circles, not a majority by any means.

The Audio Asylum banned DBT discussions a long time ago, well before they started taking advertising. They were banned because they invariably lead to death spirals like this one.

I’m stating this based on first hand experience (Not on this site). Have been told by numerous vendors that they had certain requirements for paid advertising.

Not sure how being a majority is relevant here. Facts aren’t determined by popular opinion.

 

[bfreedma]

Bingo, bfreedma. That's a definite bingo.

The argument that we're the ones trying to prevent true audiophiles from enjoying their hobby is an odd one to make, because we're the ones trying to tell people they don't need to spend crazy amounts of money to enjoy their audio.

It’s not even about spending large amounts of money, it’s about spending money where it can actually make an audible difference. Transducers, room treatments, buying content, etc.

 

[daggah]

Listen any way you want, but do try listening. The only method I've found that works is long term listening in my system and reversing the change if possible.

To you, the fact that a test can't tell the difference between a coat hanger and audiophile cables means there's no difference. To me, it means that the test methodology was invalid.

The problem with "do try listening" is that we subject ourselves to known biases when we do so. It's also incredibly arrogant of us to believe that we have the golden ears necessary to discern such refinements and enhancements that other people cannot hear.

The problem with insisting that the test methodology is invalid is that you're ignoring that the tests are repeatable and consistent. Repeatability and consistency is essential to any scientific approach. To throw out the proposed methodology without offering up an alternative methodology that isn't also repeatable and consistent is madness.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

 

[audiobomber]

I’m stating this based on first hand experience (Not on this site). Have been told by numerous vendors that they had certain requirements for paid advertising.

Not sure how being a majority is relevant here. Facts aren’t determined by popular opinion.

Forums want members and traffic, so they will naturally try to please the majority. Audiophiles want to pursue their hobby without harassment and death spiral discussions that convince no one. I usually hang out at Audiophile Style, formerly called Computer Audio. The mod there recently purged a half dozen or so technocrats, who constantly disrupted threads with their dogma, usually delivered in an acerbic tone. Then he created a sub-forum for Objectivists. The place is much more peaceful and pleasant now. Please note that a few people are disrupting this thread, which is intended for discussion of audiophile ethernet cables and switches.

 

[audiobomber]

The problem with "do try listening" is that we subject ourselves to known biases when we do so. It's also incredibly arrogant of us to believe that we have the golden ears necessary to discern such refinements and enhancements that other people cannot hear.

The problem with insisting that the test methodology is invalid is that you're ignoring that the tests are repeatable and consistent. Repeatability and consistency is essential to any scientific approach. To throw out the proposed methodology without offering up an alternative methodology that isn't also repeatable and consistent is madness.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Repeating a flawed test endlessly does not make it any more valid.

 

[daggah]

Then what do you propose as a test that isn't flawed? Or are you just trying to get me banned by trying to guide the discussion over to a banned topic on this forum?

Which of my three scenarios do you think is happening? Are audiophile ethernet cables enhancing the sound vs the standard cables? Are the standard cables just degrading the sound? Or is it all in the listener's head?