[griff500]

Then what do you propose as a test that isn't flawed? Or are you just trying to get me banned by trying to guide the discussion over to a banned topic on this forum?

Which of my three scenarios do you think is happening? Are audiophile ethernet cables enhancing the sound vs the standard cables? Are the standard cables just degrading the sound? Or is it all in the listener's head?

Are you really looking for the answer to this or simply wanting to further a debate about whether or not people hear what they hear?

You will already know that a cable cannot add anything to the sound so that suggestion is a strawman argument waiting to happen.

 

[daggah]

Can someone answer the question without evading it or being rude?

 

[griff500]

You have a low threshold for what qualifies as rude.

Your question was answered, not that you are really interested in the answer.

 

[daggah]

You have a low threshold for what qualifies as rude.

Your question was answered, not that you are really interested in the answer.

So if you are saying that you are going with scenario #2, that the "audiophile" ethernet cable is audibly transparent and the standard cable is reducing the sound output quality through degradation, then what is causing the degradation? There's been a lot of speculation in this thread about interference, EMI, etc., etc.

I am trying to understand how those who believe that a digital cable can impact the sound quality actually think this impact *happens.*

Yes, I have an argument in mind but I am trying to find the exact point where your belief begins to diverge from what we understand about electronics and electrical signals.

 

[griff500]

So if you are saying that you are going with scenario #2, that the "audiophile" ethernet cable is audibly transparent and the standard cable is reducing the sound output quality through degradation, then what is causing the degradation? There's been a lot of speculation in this thread about interference, EMI, etc., etc.

I am trying to understand how those who believe that a digital cable can impact the sound quality actually think this impact *happens.*

Yes, I have an argument in mind but I am trying to find the exact point where your belief begins to diverge from what we understand about electronics and electrical signals.

I don’t need to understand how it works and I have no interest in debating it. I cannot remember the last time someone tried it and said they didn’t hear a difference. That should at least pique the curiosity of anyone with a scientific way of thinking.

Try it for your self with a decent cable, assuming you’ve got a decent system. If you hear no difference then report it and that’s fine. If you do hear a difference then maybe you’d like to figure out why that might be.

 

[daggah]

That's a cop-out if I've ever seen one. Who's next to attempt to explain their thinking?

 

[griff500]

That's a cop-out if I've ever seen one. Who's next to attempt to explain their thinking?

And that’s why these discussions are pointless and you really should move on. I heard a significant difference and that’s good enough for me. I’ve no idea why you think people need to prove something to you.

 

[daggah]

So you've literally spent several thousand pounds of your local currency on equipment to improve your audio signal chain and you don't have any thoughts on exactly how it does so?

 

[griff500]

So you've literally spent several thousand pounds of your local currency on equipment to improve your audio signal chain and you don't have any thoughts on exactly how it does so?

I spent more than several thousand on my system and it works exceptionally well. I have not been tempted to take a degree in engineering to understand how it works.

 

[cpurdy]

Let's try to tackle this from another angle. If you buy an audiophile ethernet cable and then "hear a difference" in your audio quality, one of three scenarios must be happening.

1) The audiophile cable is enhancing the sound. In this scenario, the cheaper cable is audibly transparent, but the audiophile cable is improving the sound in some way.

2) The cheaper cable is degrading the sound. In other words, the audiophile cable is more audibly transparent, and the cheaper cable is getting in the way of achieving that goal.

3) The sound isn't actually changing, only your perception of it is. In this scenario, various unavoidable human biases are coming into play to color your perception of what you are hearing.

Obviously I take position #3. But for you subjectivists, which is happening? Is the expensive cable enhancing the sound, or is the theorized noise or interference on the cheaper cable somehow making its way through the rest of your signal chain, to your transducer of choice, and into your ears?

This is a very reasonable question.

Which is why you are not getting any reasonable answers.

By the way, I really do not appreciate your previous comment about pretty cables ... my gorgeous, over-priced cables do a great job at making everything sound better to me. And yes, I am 100% certain that physics and science do not support my conclusion, because I am 100% certain that it is purely the placebo effect.

Which is fine. Even nice. Frankly, I'd even say it's pretty cool.

On the other hand, I'm not trying to take people's money for my placebo effect.

 

[endless402]

I spent more than several thousand on my system and it works exceptionally well. I have not been tempted to take a degree in engineering to understand how it works.

several thousand is quite an understatement lol.

 

[daggah]

I spent more than several thousand on my system and it works exceptionally well. I have not been tempted to take a degree in engineering to understand how it works.

I'm not expecting you to be an engineer. If you did hold those qualifications I'm sure you'd be over on my side of the debate though.

Do you have any thoughts on the fact that everyone who's come to this discussion with a background in IT and networking all agree that an ethernet cable transports ones and zeros and won't be able to influence the final sound output?

 

[griff500]

Do you have any thoughts on the fact that everyone who's come to this discussion with a background in IT and networking all agree that an ethernet cable transports ones and zeros and won't be able to influence the final sound output?

How does a background in IT networking quality someone to comment on sound?All that’s required for IT networking is data integrity.

Do you have any thoughts on the fact that everyone who has posted here that has tried different cables has reported a difference in sound?

Those with the strongest opinions against this seem to be those who have not tried it. I was of the same opinion before I tried it.

 

[bpcans]

How does a background in IT networking quality someone to comment on sound?All that’s required for IT networking is data integrity.

Do you have any thoughts on the fact that everyone who has posted here that has tried different cables has reported a difference in sound?

Those with the strongest opinions against this seem to be those who have not tried it. I was of the same opinion before I tried it.

griff500, when I came to this thread I was hoping to garner some useful information from other music lovers as to some of the ways that they have enhanced their music streaming experience. But that doesn’t seem to be a possibility given the contrarian nature of several of the commenters who are dead set on making this just another social media avenue for them to vent and stigmatize folks whom they don’t agree with. I swear that there should be a completely separate forum for these people called the “It’s only 1’s and 0’s Big B Party”.

 

[daggah]

Oh you poor persecuted audiophiles. Gimme a break.

I'm just trying to establish a rational, reasonable explanation for how these audiophile ethernet cables and networking equipment can possibly make a difference. If you guys are incapable of doing so, why not just admit to yourselves and the rest of us that it is truly all in your head? The idea that a digital ethernet cable with error correction protocols built into the TCP/IP networking model can modify a specific subset of data (the ones and zeroes that your DAC turns into audio at your headphones and speakers) is impossible. If you disagree, I once again ask you to explain which scenario is more likely: is the audiophile-grade networking equipment enhancing the audio compared to audibly transparent standard networking equipment, or is the standard networking equipment degrading the audio instead? If the standard networking equipment is degrading the audio, then by what phenomena is that happening?

Furthermore, the language used by those who believe in the effect of audiophile ethernet tend to point to measurable phenomena, but despite this, still no actual evidence is ever presented (remember folks - the plural of anecdote is NOT data.) Words like "too bright and harsh" were used to describe the sound of bog-standard ethernet cables early on. "Too bright and harsh" is something we can see on a frequency response graph in the forms of peaks in the treble regions. But no frequency response graph has been shown. Words like "sounds more analogue," while pretty vague and a weird way to describe a supposedly better digital cable, have also been used to describe the effects of audiophile ethernet, but since audiophile ethernet is not capable of performing digital signal processing (DSP) due to the limits on the devices of operating at the early layers of the OSI model (physical/data link/network) which are all data-agnostic. DSP would have to be done at the application layer where packets can actually be opened up and manipulated...but the application layer, which is the final layer of the OSI model, is far beyond the scope of network cables and switches. Finally, if the analog signal from your DAC is being effected by the networking in place on the digital side, then comparing the analog signals coming off the same DAC after swapping the networking equipment in and out should be able to show a difference. Again, that evidence is never presented.

As a general rule, you shouldn't add devices from sketchy sources into your internal networks. This includes your home network, which will inevitably process a lot of personally sensitive data as you use your home internet to do things like online shopping, pay bills, apply for lines of credit, manage finances... I personally would certainly call any company willing to sell me audiophile networking that I can surmise doesn't actually do anything based on my own understanding of networking protocols and standards as a sketchy company that has no business on my home network...or yours.